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#359679 - 12/11/13 09:46 AM Winter aeration and ice integrity
Lovnlivin Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1504
Loc: Eagle, NE
Hi all, and I apologize as I have a hard time keeping my questions brief. crazy

This is the dam area I want to clear off and there's much more brush and bushes than the picture shows.


Along the circled area is the dam (although an earthen pond) which is steep and drops off to the deepest area of the pond at 9-10' along the blue line. I've been wanting to clear all the brush, small trees (mostly small willows I believe and none over 1-2" in diameter), etc., from the face of the dam but it's too steep to clear without all the debris (or me) falling into the pond.

So, I figured I'd wait until it iced over so I can access it from the pond to clear it all off.

In the picture you can vaguely see where I've place the four diffusers, with the small circled area being the one I'd like to open for the sake of snow-cover and having open water for O2. The pink circle is approximately how much of the water will open up. The depth at that area is 4-5' until it reaches the area of the blue line which is the 9-10' deep channel of the pond which drops fairly quickly. The rest of the pond averages 3-5' deep.

My question is if I open that diffuser, will it make the ice unsafe along the dam to do what I want to do? I will check thickness as I go but I wonder about thin/weak spots due to moving water under the ice.

Thanks for any help and/or ideas.
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#359681 - 12/11/13 10:56 AM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Usually the open water and thinner ice in conjunction with the diffuser is very localized but never take that for granted. A lot of it depends on the temperatures, and the wind when the ice was forming, which in tandem with the diffuser bubble can slow down ice formation a fair distance away.

Short answer: I think you'll be O.K and have safe ice adjacent to the dam but it always a good idea to check with an auger or spud.
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#359684 - 12/11/13 11:23 AM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
Sue Cruz Offline
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Hi Keith blush ~ I wouldn't chance it ~ why not wait to turn on the diffuser until after you are finished clearing the dam? You shouldn't run into DO problems until later in the winter anyway....


Edited by Sue Cruz (12/11/13 12:40 PM)
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#359687 - 12/11/13 12:01 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Keith

Tie off with ski rope around your waist to the dock, wear ice spikes on your boots, use spud bar, and also ice claws around your neck.

Ideally wait for a buddy to follow you to help with rescue. Be careful.
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#359693 - 12/11/13 12:24 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
Lovnlivin Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1504
Loc: Eagle, NE
Hi Sue!

Dan? wink

Originally Posted By: Sue Cruz
Hi Dan ~ I wouldn't chance it ~ why not wait to turn on the diffuser until after you are finished clearing the dam?

Well, that was going to be my plan as soon as the ice was safe but every day the snow stays on the ice I get more concerned about a fish-kill, and although I could clear the snow off with a shovel once it's safe, the water wasn't very clear prior to freezing due to the phytoplankon (greenish color, not at all brownish) and clarity at 12-18". So I don't know how much light penetration it would get.

Originally Posted By: Sue Cruz
You shouldn't run into DO problems until later in the winter anyway....

My pond is pretty shallow overall, I worry (too much about everything ponds) about a plankton die-off, having a very nutrient-rich BOW and a DO Sag/crash to go along with it and losing my fish which were stocked just last year and seemingly doing very well. I'm sure I'm being overly paranoid but I just think about how far I've come and the time and $$ spent to have to possibly start over/re-stock.

I know there are too many variables to hold you to the statement "You shouldn't run into DO problems until later in the winter anyway....", but I'll do everything I can to get out there this weekend to clear the dam. I just don't want to get on the ice alone and it's sometimes hard to find help with this kind of work, in this kind of weather grin

Cecil, thanks for your input as well!

*edit* TJ, in between work distractions and finally posting my response, you got yours in there. Believe me, I'll be tied off, PFD on, DIY ice claws and spiked shoes (still thinking on that one), and I have no idea what a spud bar is confused



Edited by Lovnlivin (12/11/13 12:31 PM)
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(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES

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#359694 - 12/11/13 12:32 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
esshup Offline
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Check ice thickness as you go. It can vary greatly. A buddy called me over to his house to drill some holes in the ice for him. He had shoulder surgery so he couldn't do it himself. He had checked the ice with a spud bar the day or 2 before I got there. He said it was 6" or so thick. He and I were standing together when I started drilling with my Laser auger. I only made 4 revolutions with the handle before it broke thru the ice. We scattered like a covey of quail taking flight, as we were in 8' of water. Thinking about it, the ice was probably 2" or less thick in that spot.....

He didn't have an aeration system in his pond, and the only thing that we can think of is that the water flowing in and out of his pond thinned the ice.
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#359700 - 12/11/13 12:52 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
Lovnlivin Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1504
Loc: Eagle, NE
Thanks Esshup,

Being on the ice just freaks me out! I've never been ice fishing and as much as I wanted to try it last year, what I thought was a safe 6-8" of ice, everywhere I walked it sounded like someone pouring milk on a bowl of rice krispies. So I too "scattered like a covey of quail taking flight" (I love that!).

And never drilled a hole and fished frown

My Nephew has all the gear and offered to come out, and he weighs about 350 (I'm at 170), so I guess if he feels safe, I will too,,,,,, from a distance grin .

It's thin spots that worry me even though I have no inflow or outflow (or spring), and not that I want to fall in 4-5' of water, but the area I'll be working at drops off quickly to the 9-10' depth.

I just need to learn more about ice and build up some confidence about being on it.


Edited by Lovnlivin (12/11/13 12:57 PM)
_________________________
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https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0
(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES

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#359701 - 12/11/13 12:59 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
Sue Cruz Offline
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Registered: 12/22/04
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Loc: Pompano Beach, Florida
Just don't get out there with your aeration system running! Please!!
I want to try ice fishing too!! I'd probably freeze my FL Butt off, but it's on the list.
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Vertex Water Features
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#359702 - 12/11/13 01:00 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
esshup Offline
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In retrospect, it was kinda comical. Not a word was said, but once the auger went thru the ice we both moved in unison in opposite directions, but we both moved towards shore at the same time.

The other scarey thing was it happened after dark, and nobody else was home - just him and me. Neither of us had picks around our necks either.

Another thing to think about, if you are walking on the ice carrying an auger or spud bar, keeping it horizontal to the ice (rather than vertical) might stop you from going under the ice if you break through the ice. You'll go down, but the auger will catch (hopefully).

I've been thru the ice 3x, but luckily I haven't ever had to climb back up on top of the ice to get out, I've been close enough to shore that I could walk/crawl out after breaking more ice.
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#359705 - 12/11/13 01:10 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Sue Cruz]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sue Cruz
Just don't get out there with your aeration system running! Please!!
I want to try ice fishing too!! I'd probably freeze my FL Butt off, but it's on the list.


Oh now Sue now you sound like you're from Florida. Oh wait you are! grin
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If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#359706 - 12/11/13 01:12 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: esshup]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: esshup
In retrospect, it was kinda comical. Not a word was said, but once the auger went thru the ice we both moved in unison in opposite directions, but we both moved towards shore at the same time.

The other scarey thing was it happened after dark, and nobody else was home - just him and me. Neither of us had picks around our necks either.

Another thing to think about if you are walking on the ice carrying an auger or spud bar, keeping it horizontal to the ice (rather than vertical) might stop you from going under the ice if you break through the ice. You'll go down, but the auger will catch (hopefully).

I've been thru the ice 3x, but luckily I haven't ever had to climb back up on top of the ice to get out, I've been close enough to shore that I could walk/crawl out after breaking more ice.


No idea what it must be like to go through the ice. whistle
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#359708 - 12/11/13 01:18 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Lovnlivin Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1504
Loc: Eagle, NE
Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
No idea what it must be like to go through the ice. whistle


Cecil, let's hope we can both say that many years from now and for many years to come!
_________________________
Keith - Still Lovin Livin

https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0
(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES

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#359709 - 12/11/13 01:18 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
Bing Offline
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Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 1608
Loc: Fayette County Illinois
I wouldn't go out on that pond with the aerator on if you gave me the whole BOW.
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#359711 - 12/11/13 01:19 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
sprkplug Offline
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Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
"How big are those Bluegill?? Over a pound easy....."

"How thick is that ice? Every bit of 5 inches....."

For want of an accurate measuring device, both statements are accepted at face value. And both, are often proved incorrect.

Always, always check the ice for yourself. Buy a spud bar, or make one, and use it...wear your picks also. And never become complacent about your safety. Ice conditions can be extremely variable, and change greatly over a short period of time.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#359713 - 12/11/13 01:27 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
Lovnlivin Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1504
Loc: Eagle, NE
Originally Posted By: Sue Cruz
Just don't get out there with your aeration system running! Please!!
I want to try ice fishing too!! I'd probably freeze my FL Butt off, but it's on the list.

Sue, the diffusers will stay off until I'm done!

And as far as ice fishing goes, it's not actually on my list. As much as people enjoy doing it, I've always felt there's other ways to enjoy the winter than sitting on a block of ice hoping for a bite.

With no disrespect intended as I have nothing against those who enjoy sitting on a big bowl of "snap, crackle, pop" crazy

And thank you all for your input and concern!
_________________________
Keith - Still Lovin Livin

https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0
(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES

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#359715 - 12/11/13 01:40 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Bing]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Originally Posted By: Bing
I wouldn't go out on that pond with the aerator on if you gave me the whole BOW.


I know we should all be careful with ice but with experience and thoughtful checking I've never had any dangerous issues with running a diffuser in my ponds in the winter. Granted I do move a diffuser close to shore and back off on the air flow by changing out to a smaller compressor.

Yes i've gone through the ice a couple of times but only once in my pond and that had nothing to do with the diffuser. I poked my foot into suspicious hole while standing on the pier and lost my balance.

In really cold weather after careful checking I've actually stood almost adjacent to diffuser hole. The ice was fairly thick right up to the hole.

For those of you that don't get on ice it can be as safe as standing on concrete if it's good quality ice and thick enough. Even if you did go through if the ice, and the ice is not glass smooth (which it rarely is) it's relatively easy to get out if you roll out on your back. Going through is not an automatic death sentence like many of you southern folks think. ;-)In fact I've buddies laugh so hard when another fishing buddy goes through help is a littke delayed.


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (12/11/13 01:50 PM)
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#359716 - 12/11/13 01:42 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
sprkplug Offline
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Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Ice fishing is flat out awesome. And with the incorporation of today's modern electronics, it's a whole nother' ballgame from what it was even 15-20 years ago.

The image a lot of folks have, of the guy perched on a bucket,leaning over a hole while snow blows down his collar, is no longer an absolute....sure, those guys are still out there, I've fished that way myself. But it was by choice, not necessity. One man flip over shelters, razor sharp augers, high tech sonar, underwater cameras, and the amazing improvements in cold weather clothing have brought the run and gun style of open water anglers, right to the ice.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#359719 - 12/11/13 01:47 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: sprkplug]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Ice fishing is flat out awesome. And with the incorporation of today's modern electronics, it's a whole nother' ballgame from what it was even 15-20 years ago.

The image a lot of folks have, of the guy perched on a bucket,leaning over a hole while snow blows down his collar, is no longer an absolute....sure, those guys are still out there, I've fished that way myself. But it was by choice, not necessity. One man flip over shelters, razor sharp augers, high tech sonar, underwater cameras, and the amazing improvements in cold weather clothing have brought the run and gun style of open water anglers, right to the ice.


Right on! It's so effective and addicting I know guys that only icefish and forego open water fishing!

There is no reason to be cold with today's winter wear and it can actually get so cozy in a pop up with only a lantern for heat you have to shed your jacket!
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#359724 - 12/11/13 02:23 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7892
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Great advice here, and I'm not trying to discount the need to be prudent, but I agree with Cecil and think you're ok on the ice with aeration going provided you're conscious of the diameter of the spread. I fish on my pond now and my well is going - it's a small open area and the ice gradually thickens as you get further away. In a few feet it's back to 4-6" and good clear ice.

Since you're only going out a few feet to clear brush, you're only going to be in 2-3' water if you take a bath - right? Stand up, get in truck, fix cocktail, post photos and have a good laugh.

I thought you were going ice fishing with aeration going...that's why I recommended the rope, etc. I still think you can go fishing, just be careful and read the ice for springs, etc. If you need help just ask, I can help you scout the ice and tie off so you get a better picture of how your BOW behaves in winter. It will likely be the same scenario every year so you know the areas to avoid, etc. Mine is the same every year - two spots of concern with springs that are always about 25% less ice. Etched into my memory.



_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#359726 - 12/11/13 02:49 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: teehjaeh57]
Lovnlivin Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1504
Loc: Eagle, NE
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Since you're only going out a few feet to clear brush, you're only going to be in 2-3' water if you take a bath - right? Stand up, get in truck, fix cocktail, post photos and have a good laugh.

Herein lies my fear/concern; 2' off the bank of the dam and I'm in 9' of water, it drops straight down!

The cocktail is needed just to build up the courage to do it grin
_________________________
Keith - Still Lovin Livin

https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0
(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES

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#359727 - 12/11/13 02:59 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
sprkplug Offline
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Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Could you rent/borrow a pole saw and cut the trees from the topside, then hook them with a rope or cable and drag em' up?
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#359728 - 12/11/13 03:02 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7892
Loc: Lincoln, NE
LOL, so easy to wait until Spring, but this guy has cabin fever! Creating projects to do - me too.

Start ice fishing, you'll forget all about the brush - this will be our best ice season over the past several years.


Edited by teehjaeh57 (12/11/13 03:03 PM)
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#359737 - 12/11/13 03:44 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: sprkplug]
Lovnlivin Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1504
Loc: Eagle, NE
Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Could you rent/borrow a pole saw and cut the trees from the topside, then hook them with a rope or cable and drag em' up?


Sprk, I do have a gas powered pole saw (I'm a project and powertool junkie) and along with a brush-grubber chain (which I don't have), rope and/or hook, they all would work well,,, for the most part.

Starting top-side maybe I'll be able to access more than I think near the water but there's quite a bit of rooted brush just above the waterline.

Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
LOL, so easy to wait until Spring, but this guy has cabin fever! Creating projects to do - me too.

Start ice fishing, you'll forget all about the brush - this will be our best ice season over the past several years.

It's not so much cabin fever as it is keeping the debris from falling in the pond. Believe me, I have plenty of projects that DON'T require being in bitterly cold weather. I just built and replaced 2 barn doors and have a floor-pan to replace in a buddy's '91 Dodge Ram (I'm a former body-man as well), among others on the list. But these jobs can be done in the shed, out of that bitter cold!




And as far as ice fishing goes;


I think I could learn to like it cool


Edited by Lovnlivin (12/11/13 07:41 PM)
_________________________
Keith - Still Lovin Livin

https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0
(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES

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#359756 - 12/11/13 06:42 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Sue Cruz]
Dwight Offline

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Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 5495
Loc: Minnesota < SW < USA <...
Originally Posted By: Sue Cruz
Just don't get out there with your aeration system running! Please!!
I want to try ice fishing too!! I'd probably freeze my FL Butt off, but it's on the list.

Barefoot-bikini ice fishing in -20 F weather is only fun for a minute.

Sarah (the famous one from Canada) tried it. Blair dragged her back to his hut and warmed her back to life.

Though they have been happily married for many years, there are times when Sarah secretly wonders if her decision making may have been affected by being so very very cold......
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#359766 - 12/11/13 07:39 PM Re: Winter aeration and ice integrity [Re: Lovnlivin]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
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Loc: Northeastern Indiana





Back in my younger days I'd say, "Ladies you can come in and get warm now if you take off the bikinis. Otherwise the door stays closed." You know they've give in eventually. smirk


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (12/11/13 07:40 PM)
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If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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