Pond Boss Forums FISH & FISHING Sunfish-Including Largemouth and Smallmouth Bass Sexing Redear Sunfish?

Those both look female to me, but not certain.

The thing about this thread that's bugging me is that I think maybe there's even more genetic variation with RES than there is BG. The more I learn, the less I know.

I think you look like a guy Bruce. Why would anyone thing you are effeminant?

I agree Bruce. No list of male/female traits or even any good written study data on RES. There is some but not much. Carlander (1977) text has some which I use.

Gotta get my 2 cents in.

At the aquarian in Chattanooga, all RES have washed out color. Seems I've seen RES in a BassPro aquarian and it was pale and without out enough color to readily idenify it. Staffer said they lacked color from the commercial food vs a wild diet. Not sure how credible the guy was. Also, that part of the aquarian didn't get sunlight.


Female at 6".
Blackbirds get their brillant red wings once bugs reappear in the springtime.

Now to brag on my 'El Gordo' a RES I kept for 18month in a 150 gal rubbermaid. He arrived just short of 4" from an outfit named 'Jonah's Aquariams.' Don't know if they're still around. He grew to weight over a lb. (only quick weighed him to avoid stress) and 11 inches.

Please, somebody research RES as the leading and sole predator of a pond! I've wanted a RES pond for years but have had rock and financial setbacks.

1) RES grows larger than Bluegill,
2) RES & BG food niche overlaps,(?growth rate w/out BG)(*inferred from Sm Impoundment Mgt)
3) RES are much less prone to overpopulate,
4) a RES only pond eliminates an inefficient layer of predatorship*
*Inefficient of you consider harvested pounds.

Outstanding if you only have a minipond. The lack of a top (LargeMouth Bass) predator should make the pond 5X's more productive. How about the RES being a keen substitute for crappie in small ponds? (I'll get that pond someday, may have to buy $5000 rubber liner.)

Both the female( who died at 6 months) and male had brillant orange/red flap; the female not as bright but as bright as 1 of the pics we're talking about being male.

The five RES I have in my aquarium also have washed out colors when my aquarium light is on, they are much darker and more colorful when the aquarium light has been turned off. They also show a very strong preference for hanging out in the darkest available part of my aquarium. Right now I have 3 out 4 of my aquarium lights shut off and have only been keeping one end of the tank lit up.

My working hypothesis is that RES have extremely light sensitive eyesite, more like walleye, which is why they get a washed out appearence under very normal lighting conditions. I also believe it is the primary reason they do not pellet train easily and why they hang out in deep water during the day.

There is an interesting USGS fact sheet on RES for native locations and such. They just describe the interaction with PS, ending in favor of the RES.
http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/factsheet.aspx?SpeciesID=390

I have been looking to see if they will live in the Albany NY area. Looks like they can live quite a bit farther north than here, so I think they should be good. Now to find a source for them.

One should exercise caution when reading complied data like that. It is good to read but often lacks context. See below from the data sheet.

No records (for RES) exist for New York (Whittier and Hartel 1997).

... the Susquehanna and Allegheny drainages in New York (Hocutt et al. 1986

Conflicting data at least and I don't see any natural locations north of you on the map. The great lake shown part of which is north of you was probably included because of some RES reported from the south end of of it. Large lakes like that can have good cold water refuge at depth so I would not extrapolate that to a pond. Never say never though and it might work. Cold water stress may lead to poor growth and condition even if they survive.

I agree to take caution with the aggregate data. Specifically, I was speaking to the reports in VT which had 3 recorded locations (2 in 1991 and 1 in 1997). Although the one location in 1991 didn't have any found in 1997.

Point taken on the cold water stress.

They are very interesting fish and might be worth a try...

Shorty the 4 small RES we had in an aquarium (grandkids have them now and taking care of them till release time next spring in their newly renovated pond) sure did not like the light. Turn it on and they would immediately go into the covered refuge we provided. If the light was left on they eventually would venture out some but still spent a lot more time under cover than when the light was off. We left the light off most of the time for this reason. The BG and FHM didn't seem to do much when the lights came on but the RES went straight for the caves.

I've studied RES as much as possible, and have quite a bit of hands-on experience, and my working theory is that a redear sunfish can live quite a ways north, as long as there is good oxygen content in the entire water column. Well-oxygenated water near the bottom of a frozen pond or lake is near 39 degrees, and this seems to be within the tolerance of RES, as long as there is not ice for very extensive periods of time. RES that live under the ice where there is poor water quality, will be forced from the warmer depths into better oxygenated upper tier waters because of decaying organic matter, but then encounter colder and colder conditions as they near the ice/water interface. This increases the stress levels on an already stressed animal.

Bruce, there is a public lake near here that has RES in it, and has had them for as long as I can remember. That lake has had ice on it from mid November until late March before. Average depth is 10'-12' with the deepest part being 30'. Muck bottom, lots of weeds.

Are you implying that the water is poor quality? Weeds on the bottom can actually be very beneficial for redears. The light penetration must get to the bottom for rooted vegetation to exist, and the consequence would be good oxygen for the redears to utilize in the warmer, 39 degree water. The only problem would be if the vegetation starves of light and rots during the coldest months.

I wouldn't say poor quality, nutrient rich for sure. Lake is 100+ years old.

The typical (well, what is typical anymore?) winter would see weeds dying out due to lack of sunlight from snow cover.

The lake is fed by underground springs and 3 creeks.

Typically the cycle is:

EWM and CLP really starts growing in the early Spring, the CLP grows to the surface in up to 10' of water, EWM to surface in 6'- 8' of water. Boating and some private herbacide applications allows a bloom to get a foothold, and it snowballs, usually dropping the visibility to 18" or less during the summer. Boating activity dies back in the Fall, phytoplankton too, and the vascular plants start growing before ice on. The 3 most prevalent "plants" in the lake are EWM, CLP and Chara. 2012 saw a lakewide low dose Fluridone treatment for EWM and CLP. The remainder of 2012 and 2013 saw very little vascular plant growth, but an even denser algae bloom (but no FA, maybe due to boat traffic?). Lake also has Pumpkinseeds in it. I have caught 10" RES in there. Minimal to no snail population, there are crayfish, freshwater clams and mussels. Common Carp stir the bottom during spawning time, and there are also yellow and black bullheads in the lake that nobody fishes for. No catfish that I know of. LMB, BG, YP, BCP, RES, PS, and a few NP. Years ago the NP did well, but now their spawning habitat is minimal.

Bucket stocking has resulted in GSH, GSD, and just recently WB. WE and BC were stocked years ago, but couldn't sustain a viable reproducing population.

Last DNR fish population survey showed GSH make up slightly more than 60% of the fish biomass.

I'll let you know how they do when I stock them in the Spring.

Never mind. Stocking has been denied by the state. Last legal stocking was 25 years ago.

Good reason why there is no records listed.

RES color is a little washed out under my aquarium light, any opinions on sex?

Female?
http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq153/Squidge_04/DSC06757_zpse7f67e0b.jpg

Male?
http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq153/Squidge_04/DSC06759_zps6d08029e.jpg

I took the following picture.

The top fish was a confirmed male (milting).

The bottom fish was a confirmed female (heavily gravid).



I would by no means be certain that your fish are females.

Shorty, I'm amazed at how morphologically similar your fish are to standard bluegill. They don't have that downturned, snail-eatin' mouth that I usually catch.

They have had no snails in their diet since I pulled them out of the pond last year on Memorial Day weekend. They were 3" when I got them and they have had a mixed diet of bloodworms, pellets, night crawlers, and more recently fathead minnows.

I love those markings on the fish you posted Bruce. Our redears in the natural lakes around me are very bland in comparison.

I think RES are one of the hardest sunfish species to reliably sex.

I really agree with this.

Cecil, those fish were caught in Nebraska's clearest water.

I didn't want to hear that!

The natural lakes we have them in are quite clear also.