Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss Should have known better than to leave the farm...

Tried posting on a few local fishing forums that appeared to lack the pond/fishery management angle. So, I thought I could provide some useful information make some new contacts locally. Initially guys were friendly enough, but soon made the following observations:

Rules governing dialogue/engagement pretty lax - guys routinely insult and challenge one another needlessly about minor differences of opinion.

100% focused on fishing and harvest - seemingly with little to no interest on the effort required to sustain or science involved in creating/managing the fisheries. I thought there would be a degree of interest learning about where the fish they catch come from, and how they can be managed to become trophies.

One of my biggest issues was the general consensus that trophy fish taken from smaller, managed fisheries - [ie: our ponds!] is like fishing in a barrel, and often referred the them as less worthy fish.

As you'd guess, whenever I challenged the forum's general sentiment regarding a topic with empirical data or science, I was largely ignored/dismissed. Here's a direct quote from one the brightest "over there":

"Keep that trophy in a can to yourself. I like working for the few master anglers I catch. You know what comes with that hard work? Pride!"

Typically I find ignorance laughable, but apparently this bothered me enough to post. Try to respect the opinions of others, but when it's based on zero experience or science, it's hard not to become frustrated.

Guess this just underscores how grateful I am for our Pond Boss forum...gotta be mindful of my audience in the future. It can be nutso out there!

I love the information here on Pond Boss. Still a lot to learn but the good thing is I love learn so that should be no problem.

Yep, I've heard that stuff before, also. Just once I would like to bring one of those "fish in a barrel" guys out to my ponds and instruct them to have at it...... the look on their face when they encountered a pond full of wary, hook-wise and well fed fish might be priceless.

What leaves me scratching my head, is when those same guys will hail the accomplishments of an angler due to the fact he/she fishes public water rather than private....like it's supposed to be harder to catch fish in an environment that is non C&R, where the fish are completely unpressured, and willing to attack the first thing that falls into the water. Sure, there are public areas where the fish are highly pressured and wary, but there are also many public areas where the fish have never seen a human being and are capable of making any angler seem far more talented than perhaps is justified.

I agree Tony and JL - 100%. Guess we should be grateful for the masses who prefer waiting in a line of 100 rigs to launch their boat and pound the public waters and aren't interested in trespassing on our ponds full of inferior fish.

I remember getting beat on a couple years ago over on the Indiana board at a certain ice fishing site. Originally, my ideas regarding sustainable BG harvests were ridiculed....that is, until Cecil weighed in on my behalf.

When I said it, it was ridiculous. But when Cecil said it, it was all like.... "Really? tell us more, that's very interesting!"

Someday, perhaps, I will attain the celebrity status that he enjoys!

damnant quod non intellegunt

I shouldn't be surprised.

What would be your real goal? You already are a Rock Star

I think that there is just a difference of perspective. The focus here is on pond management and the growth of fish. I also manage my place for wildlife habitat, and am pretty pumped when I harvest a large deer. Some other sites are about going places where others have managed the habitat and fish (or the habitat is already conducive to having good fish) and they just enjoy the challenge of catching the fish that others have worked to produce. It is just good to have a PondBoss where habitat managers can share their knowledge and passion. Just because others don't appreciate what we do, does not mean that we should stoop to their level and bash their passion (although it is very hard to restrain from reciprocating).

Hey TJ, don't take this wrong cause I like your attitude and posts. However I have to agree with the canned Tuna guy. If you don't spend all day runin 80 mph up and down a large bow and only bring in 3-5 in BG and a lethargic 10 in LBB (new ancronim, Little Bitty Bass) then you ain't dumb enough. Have that boy try to raise up a YP that's 5 oz bigger than the state record like Mr Baird did or try to talk with Mr Cody about the 17 or 18 thousand kinds of algea there are.
I did once read about some fellas in a southern state bass fishin tourney fillin their bass with lead sinkers ta win that oh so coveted trophy that they could brag about over bbq ribs and warm beer. "And that's the rest of the story....Good day"

Sprkplug,

I can assure you I've been beat up on that website too. A notable instance was when a guy tried to tell me that at his university, tilapia survived under the ice in their research ponds. This was after i suggested tilapia in a pond to control FA and provide bass forage. He had others believing him but I knew better. When I pressed him on what university this was and who his prof was he became strangely silent. I was told by others in no uncertain terms that all fish can adapt and that the tilapia had survived under the ice, and we didn't need anymore exotic fish.

I also tried in vain to convice a guy that stocking 10 lbs. a year of fatheads in an established pond was a waste of money. Apparently a fish supplier had done a good sales job on him. The guy was convinced they increased the size of his bigger bass.

On another web site I got beat up for attempting to enter my pond caught yellow perch as a state record.

OTOH there are some folks out there that are fairly knowledgeable and willing to listen. I was recently impressed by a thread where the general consensus was catch and release isn't always what it's cracked up to be, and how important it is to get the fish in the water with as little handling as possible ASAP.

TJ, for years I was one of those guys. Figuring out how to add 2 OZ to one of my CNBG is much more satisfying and fun. I still hit big water 4 or 5 times a year, but I'm after that "one" LMB. Last 3 trips I haven't boated a fish, so I'll take my puddle any day.

Sprkplug, don't worry about celebrity status. You have respect here, and that's worth far more.

TJ, your wisdom is timeless. Understanding is such a great bonus to having a pond. I was headed in the right direction mostly when I started my pond(S), but with the help and knowledge here on PB, I have learned about peace and science. Standing on my hill looking over our ponds brings me unimaginable peace and respect for God's work and it reminds me how lucky I am to be able to learn from such a respectful group. The knowledge I have learned humbles me. I would never have thought I would learn this much about ponds and their life cycles. From aeration to stocking to balance, there is so much you can do if you want. Or you can just sit back and watch Mother Nature have here way with your pond. It all works.


Tony, as I recall, you are the Grovertownpolusa fishing champion of 2013, how much more fame do you need?

It's all good. There will always be that segment whose interests lie in the math... as in how many fish they can catch. I think that's fine, provided everything is done legally and the fishery can support such harvests. And admittedly, I was once the same way. Nowadays I am much more interested in the mathematics required to produce bigger, more robust fish.

And for me at least, it's been a progressive journey. Most people find it easy to admire a big catch, but a great deal of them have very little idea of what is involved in order for a BOW to produce big numbers of quality fish, and what is needed to maintain, or even improve those statistics. They just don't realize how many factors are in play in those bodies of water.

In order to have a difference of opinion or perspective, both sides have a full understanding of the topic at hand, and either interpret the data differently or have different goals and arrive at conflicting "perspectives". In this case, on this specific forum, that understanding is entirely lacking - they have no idea of what fisheries "management" means, and interpret as some kind of unnatural, mad scientist tinkering with a BOW to develop fish, or something similar. I'd fully respect a debate on a fisheries management topic from an educated, experienced party [Golden Shiners vs. Threadfin Shad] - but that's my point here - they lack this experience and aren't apparently interested in learning the origin of their fish, or how to manage the resource.

Here's a classic response: "When I hear "managed trophy lake", I envision CEOs with the money, but not the know how or gumption to go honestly catch a fish all on their own. They don't want to fish, they want to buy a fish."

Rah, I realize you're just starting on the fisheries management front, but your extensive thread regarding forage base, fish species, and stocking qty/timing are a testament to the potential complexities of fisheries management. One of the most frustrating details is these guys don't understand that every BOW they fish is actively managed - through regulations imposed by state biologists! I tried to illuminate that when they keep a 10" crappie for the skillet and release those over - they are actively engaged in managing for trophy fish! Whoosh.

These guys harbor a lot of misconceptions about fishery management and deem fish taken from small waters as "unworthy" or "inferior" - which I can understand/respect if they are operating from a position of experience and wisdom, but they aren't - and apparently aren't interested in learning, either. That's the origin of my frustration regarding their ignorance. It's not a difference of opinion or perspective, it's a lack of experience and willingness to learn about the science behind the fish they pursue.

I guess we're "special" guys at PB who seek to understand the science behind our goals, and how we can achieve them. My error apparently assuming others would naturally gravitate towards this position....guess that's my point. Who doesn't WANT/NEED to learn????

I hope I'm dealing with a very vocal ignorant minority...but it's amazing how convinced one can become of their miconceptions as truth, then feel compelled to DEFEND them without any experience regarding the topic [ie: tilapia under ice]. Like I said, should have known better!

Don't sell yourself short - if someone would have offered to show you how to improve the body condition and population of your LMB you would have devoured every detail and probably been full of questions. I'm convinced some have the desire to learn, act, and create.

LOL - my point exactly. I'll take the beer and ribs, will just wait until the fire dies down to discuss matters of importance with my PB guys.

TJ I am sorry I missed this thread early. I hear you loud and clear. There are a lot of people who I would just as soon avoid out there.

I would like to sit down and talk about your first post on this thread next time we see each other. Can't do it justice on here ... I see their comments in a deeper contexts .. since the beginning of time man has been beset by his own problems which usually start with greed , pride , ignorance and fear. I see those in the comments and actions of others all the time (see your first post quotes).

Enjoy the peace of the day and avoid loud obnoxious people filled with bad traits. There is a lot to be said for a clear calm soul at peace with the world !

Neighborly Advice

A while back we had a similar thread, but it was face-to-face, rather than on a forum.

By the way, my ponds are frozen over with at least an inch of ice, maybe more. My tilapia are doing great. But, they are in a heated/filtered 50 gallon tank in the basement.

I want some of those "freeze-proof" tilapia. I could make a small fortune!