Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Proposed EPA Rule latest update

For obvious reasons I think we should stay far away from the political aspects of this topic. With that said is anyone else concerned about this potential new proposed rule that could involve the ponds we own?

Proposed Rule That Could Give EPA Much More Control Over Our Ponds

Yeah, I'm always concerned when ever the gubment wants to "improve" my life. Sigh. Doesn't sound like a done deal, and the EPA did get shut down in the court case the article sited. CMM

What has happened/is happening to our once great country...

As clean water availability becomes increasingly scarce due to higher population demands, ag use, droughts, and pollution concerns - I am not surprised seeing something like this come down the pipeline. I don't like it or agree with it, I simply am not surprised by it. As Lusk preaches - water is the new gold, and we need to stick together in a unified voice in order to protect the water we BORROW or we won't have the leasing rights for long.

Does anyone know how much one of these permits costs, or does it vary based on the size of the BOW? The fine sure is excessive, wondering what the permit costs average.

So what's next? Sunlight, air, wind, sound waves?

Good question - any resource essential to life that threatens to become scarce could likely also suffer the same risk of control. I'm worried about recreational well/pond owners...one of the primary reasons I have an aquaculture license, less scrutiny on my well usage.

Don't want to get off onto politics here but this is more than political. Like Edward G Robinson said in The Godfather movie "It's just business.".

We have a Proposition 6 on the ballot here. It's called the Clean Water Act or something like that. Nolan Ryan is the TV Street Hustler for it. It essentially uses the Texas 2 billion $ surplus(rainy day fund} we have and uses it for a "study" of how to ensure a continuing water supply. I'm against it because I figure that they will start monitoring rural wells and pond run off water. In other words, it will government and private companies control over how much water we have and use. Other States have already done it and it ain't real pretty. The "news" has already been running that Texas is running out of water. This drought has made that a reality and rationing of lawn watering has been going on for several years. I understand that and support it.

T. Boone Pickens has already tried to take over the Edwards Aquifer but was stopped by rural legislators. I figure he and others have a hand in this bill. Since most voters are non rural, I figure it will pass pretty easily.

Don't want to get off onto politics here but this is more than political. Like Edward G Robinson said in The Godfather movie "It's just business.".

We have a Proposition 6 on the ballot here. It's called the Clean Water Act or something like that. Nolan Ryan is the TV Street Hustler for it. As I understand it the bill essentially uses the Texas 2 billion $ surplus(rainy day fund} we have and uses it for a "study" of how to ensure a continuing water supply. I'm against it because I figure that they will start monitoring rural wells and pond run off water. In other words, it will government and private companies control over how much water we have and use. Other States have already done it and it ain't real pretty. The "news" has already been running that Texas is running out of water. This drought has made that a reality and rationing of lawn watering has been going on for several years. I understand that and support it.

T. Boone Pickens has already tried to take over the Edwards Aquifer but was stopped by rural legislators. I figure he and others have a hand in this bill. Since most voters are non rural, I figure it will pass pretty easily.

The EPA part is how they have been for years. An Agency out of control and unaccountable. Recall the fake email accounts of their high level policy people ? Secrets kept from public review by deception. Arrogance to the max and a lust for power. I will say that the current bunch is by far the worst as per the article. Thumbing their nose at Congress and the Courts. The founders of this country fully understood government oppression and that is why we fought England and others ever since -- freedom. That is why we have a constitution that protects individual rights. God help us keep them.

I would love to share my thoughts on this thread, but since I don't want to be accused of "stirring the pot" with an alternate viewpoint, I will refrain. As I've stated in the recent past, I believe this discussion is necessary, fundamental, and vital to the continued enjoyment of private pond ownership. But untangling it from the politics that always ensnare it has been problematic for the forum during past attempts.

I hope the day we can discuss it isn't far off, as I'm pretty sure the "other" side has no qualms about getting organized and moving ahead.

It's been many years now since I've believed that the PB forum was going to be a launching point for us to organize and take a stand.

The key to me is what "has an effect on downstream waters" means. Without a clear definition, this includes everything, since the magnitude or significance of the effect is not defined.

RAH, I believe it's intentionally written to be all inclusive and leave no puddle unclaimed.

I have not read the actual draft regulation, so its hard to tell.

There are so many ponds I'm not sure realistically how much enforcement the Feds could do? Would they start doing "inspections" of our ponds? I guess we should never under-estimate control freaks. Maybe they could use drones to keep an eye on us...who knows? I bet they will really start to impact the sellers of everything we put into our ponds like chemicals ect.

I have followed this for years and work in this area. EPA and the COE would like to have authority to control water from it highest point where rain falls on the mountain top to the depths of the sea floor. To them the water is public and they should rule. Current law and court decisions don't allow this so they will try to change it by rule (gov. edict).

I was scolded for not having a silt barrier on my own pond when I was building my house on my own land. I told the gentleman that I was going to rework the pond after completing the house to increase size and depth. He did not seem to care though. Next thing you know I had completely drained the pond and planted rye on the silt. hehehehe
I never did put up that 300' of silt barrier.

I think we need to apply some serious thought/effort in this regard. Pond owners, hatcheries, pond/fishery management companies, waterfowl hunters, dock builders, well drillers, boat manufacturers, Ducks Unlimited, Bass Pro Shops, Cabelas, University fisheries departments nationwide....all would be impacted significantly if private pond ownership and water restrictions were inacted. I agree it's important to leave politics at the curb - this is a non partisan issue IMO. Eric and Bob seem uniquely qualified to organize us. I'll pledge my expertise to the cause, whatever that's worth, right now.

I'm not even sure where to start. I know I'm not always on the same political divide as many of my really good Pond Boss friends, but ...

Our 2014 WV Aquaculture Association (WVAA)annual conference -- much like the Pond Boss conferences, was supposed to be dedicated to water rights, this coming January or February.

Last year, some guy by the name of Bob Lusk was one of our premier speakers on aquaculture issues.

Unfortunately, after many many years, we won't have such a conference this coming year. I was one of several who helped set up the agenda for this year's WVAA conference. We have unfortunately been shut down due to a complete lack of funding.

Although neither the Federal nor State governments can assist any longer, I'm trying hard to find sponsors to help us put on a one- or two-day conference on water rights.

As has been expressed above, I sure don't want to see this get into a political debate. But, water rights are becoming a pretty serious issue in all parts of the country, even in areas like mine, where we keep getting flooded. My ponds have been well above full pool for over two years.

I don't know what the right answers are. I would hope we won't have to moderate any posts in this thread, including mine, or that we will have to shut down this thread entire thread because this is such a controversial subject.

But, if you've got some ideas that don't attack the political left, right, or in between, please give us your ideas.

With that, I leave you with something from a the son of an old acquaintance:

I wouldn't just look at the federal level for potential problems. Here in Indiana someone tried to pass legislation that municipalities have control over wells within 2 miles of their borders. They could have shut down well use or implemented excessive permit fees including mine, which is close to 2 miles from city limits. I depend on a well to make part of my living.

Fortunately the Indiana Farm Bureau stepped in and put a stop to it, which I plan on being a member of in 2014. In my state farmers and the farm bureau have a lot of power. They use wells for irrigation and irrigation use is on the rise.

I do see more challenges on the horizon though.

The biggest problem here is people that don't know the facts and are easily swayed by a negative the sky is falling media. We have plenty of ground water in my area contrary to other parts of the country. Of course that doesn't mean we shouldn't use it wisely, and I plan on doing my part, by using 4 percent of the water I use presently for my trout, by going to a recirculating system.

FYI....The 5 counties in CO who are now trying to be the 51st state is over water rights!

3 quick things.
1) Science, Space, and Technology Committee Chairman's Bill
2) I would guess that pond owners are in the top 1% of all water conservation stewards. Other than another attempted power grab, it makes no sense to go after those who do not contribute to a perceived problem.
3) Just wait until cattlemen, plant nurseries, HOA's, golf courses, etc. get involved. This could turn into a political blood bath. There's a cattle stock tank every 200 feet in TX. These folks won't be happy at all, and don't mind relaying that unhappiness in a very clear and concise manner.

Hey isn't that the commitee with the senator or congressman that believes the earth is only 6000 years old? I think he's a doctor to boot!

Al, the problem is that most voters are not rural.

interesting article on the subject HOW THE URBAN-RURAL DIVIDE IS SPLITTING AMERICA

"The voting data suggest that people don't make cities liberal -- cities make people liberal."