Pond Boss Forums AERATION Should I aerate? Aeration simplified

Sue,

I am not arguing with you on this forum page. I simply was trying to find out how the bubble tube was used and how it performed in your application.

Yes I did mention it on the forum as a possibility but could not support it without any “real world” experience with it.

I simply am trying to get all the information to the end users who use all our product lines.

time out

naw, fight fight fight

naw, time out

hey this got me thinkin...uh oh.....

circulators, stones, platform diffusers, bubble tubes, hypolimnetics.....sounds like we need a post attempting to classify and organize the aeration tool chest, at least a start.......i.e. in general, what styles of aeration are best suited for what pond types and objectives?

as alluded to in previous posts, protection or destratification of the thermocline is a critical factor to the type of pond (shape, depth and geographic location) and type of fish being raised (trout, smb, lmb, and whatever mixes). what type of aeration and perhaps management of the aeration....24/7, just at nights, summer vs winter conditions.....probably too much to swallow in one bite, but i could see the development of a very useful table providing generalized types of aeration and management comments matched with general pond types and fish populations. just thinkin out loud and re-reading the topic of the thread.

this made me think that, in general, maybe the real difference is bottom diffusers create vertical convection cells and circulators create horizontal convection cells....and how these two different types of convection mechanisms affect the pond parameters (DO profile, temp profile, etc.) and which are more efficient for what types of ponds or pond objectives?

I guarantee that you're correct. Seen it wid' me own eyes, did I.

Not only does this affect circulation/aeration efficiency, but it also has a profound influence on silt suspension and shoreline erosion in smaller ponds. I had to entirely shut off a circulator in one of my ponds because it was tearing shoreline off the edge of the pond and suspending it in the water column. It helped my aeration in one respect (water movement) but hurt it in another (inability to support a macrophyte community).

Lots of questions need answered when it comes to which system to choose.

I sense a wee bit of pirate in your prose Bruce.

Aarrrrrgh Black Jack be slippin about. :p

Aye!

So do any aeration experts want to tackle the issue of why bottom diffusers are necessarily more efficient that circulators?

....and is there any place in pond management for surface agitators to augment nighttime aeration or to break up light diffusion so that macrophytes can't get a foothold?

Could a guy run a surface agitator all the time, except when he wanted to show off his pond to company? This way he wouldn't have to use any of that funny colored dye.

Mechanical aeration can be acheived one of five ways:

1. Naturally
2. Surface (agitators, paddlewheels, fountains, horizontal agitators/aerators, spray nozzles, venturi, solar surface prop driven)
3. Bottom diffused
4. Linear (Bubble Tubing)
5. Hypolimnetic (Without disrupting the thermocline)

Bruce, let me collect my thoughts about the comparison of bottom diffusion vs. circulators, but off the top, it comes down to energy required to move a certain amount of water.

Well I said "Mechanical Aeration" and I ment Aeration

I have to agree on simple obvious facts and without doing PhDs on aeration, the main benefit of bottom aeration is less energy is needed to move water. I have observed that on a typical square shape one acre pond, with just one 9" disc dead center in the deeper area all the pond water was in a slow motion movement. Well located, bubbles will turn your pond over.

Then again, another huge benefit is that oxygen depletion normally starts from the sediments up, and with oxygen depletion, phosphorous, nitrogen, iron & manganese are released from the sediments. Aerating the bottom first makes sense as previously mentioned by Bruce because bubbles will rise and lift the water, in the end, the movement of water has the best benefits as it will pick up the oxygen of the air as well.

Another effect I can suggest for the bubbles is that when they break the surface, which in turns breaks surface tension (imagine a spoon full of water, the top is curved, that is tension) surface tension when water is calm, prevents noxious gases to escape, they need a chimney or a break in the tension. Breaking surface tension alone can be beneficial. A windy day breaks surface tension.

Aeration over no aeration is well described on this animated web site from Agriculture Canada: http://www.agr.gc.ca/pfra/flash/dugout/en/dugout_e.htm

If I had to run a business in aquaculture, I would certainly calculate how much I spend in electricity, fuel or labor to aerate with a surface method. Surface aerators like paddlewheels have certainly a role to play in emergency aeration. A fountain can also aerate, especially if a water feature is the objective.

I believe bottom aeration and surface aeration debate is like Mac or PC debate, it boils down to marketing. On www.shrimpnews.com objective journalism seem to clearly define that no surface aerating technologies has taken a clear lead. Until now, bottom diffusion is less used because of a higher initial cost and the need to remove for harvesting. I believe that can be offset with the correct technology, especially when the cost of energy is calculated.

As I have observed in my 20 years in the field, there is a lot of folklore around the water, ponds owners are not different. Folklore and tradition are closely knit together and traditionally people will use aeration methods observed at the fish hatchery, mostly surface aerators. It works, but is it the best method?
Saving energy, while doing the maximum of benefits to the fish, water, sediments and microbes should be what pondmeister should strive for. Each pond has a different need but a common ageing process.

Sorry for the long story… correct me if I am wrong…

Bruce or Theo > Would you add these last few posts to the archives as they are just "excellent" great job all.These posts are worth a through understanding as you take the general term of "proper aeration" and apply it to your individual situation.You may not find "aeration simplified"like this anywhere else.

P.S. Welcome aboard the forum Mario Paris its great to have such valuable imput from the "Great White North" > Ted

Mario Paris Welcome to the forum,hope you hang around when possibe.I went to the website and browed around,lots of info there.The animated super cow was pretty interesting info.Thanks to all who posted on this thread,I had to read it 3 times to make everything stick but I think I got it.
I came to the conclussion(in my case anyway)that bottom area. is more expenive up front but cheaper in the long run and is therefore the correct way to go.Ive only had it in a short time but am already seeing a difference,I think.
Ted,thank you for your pateince and advise,I realize now I didn't do near enough reseach before jumping in and buying my aereation but for what little info I was able to give you you seem to have hit it right on the money.When the local water plant manager came over and saw it he was quite impressed.He actully thought I knew what I was doing but I got that straight pretty quick with all my unknowledgable (did I spell that right?)questions and ref. to our conversations.
BTW The selfsinking hose install went great,its was a mistake not to use it the first time around.Anyone tells you their gonna do what I did tell em to call me first,I can set em straight for you.what a needless agrivation that was.

The aerator has been in for about 2 weeks. In 2 weeks I watched this pond blossom.. a few weeks ago I had this wicked FA bloom. I see things changing, I see a good bloom developing, my fish are on fire, the place just looks real good, still FA but it may be getting better. I am sure I have been missing the boat by not having a aereator all last year. I am gonna build the second diffuser tomarrow and get it out there. I honestly think it might be cool to leave the one side unareated but I will put it tomarrow. I should have got weighted hose for sure.

I am amazed by what I am seeing due to this new system. It really makes a differnce.

I just purchased a lot that has a small, approx. 1/4 acre pond on it. It is fed by a spring and seems to be always full and overflowing through a siphon drain. I have noticed that it does have some small bass, bluegill, and catfish in it but have not fished it to see how many. I don't think it has too many fish in it. My goal is to put some more LM bass in it and just have a nice little fishing pond. The pond has no aeration or circulation and it recently had an algae bloom that all but covered the surface. The algae disapeared after a week or two. Can someone please recommend a proper size bottom diffuser for my pond-including a good brand + any accessories I will need. Also, would it be advised to also have a circulator and/or a fountain if I wanted that as well or would that be overkill. I dont think I have any pond supply companies near me, so I will have to order everything. Any advice for this pond newbie would be appreciated. I'm excited to get started and want to create the healthiest environment for my fish. Thanks

Signal13...First off, welcome to the forum. We are working late tonight so I think I will be the first to comment.

Questions first:

1.How deep is the pond?
2.How old is the pond?
3.What kind of land is around the pond, farm, pasture, subdivision, and does the watershead from this land end up in the pond?
4.Is it an unusual shape?

These all help to size a system. When an aeration system is sized, the goal is to turnover the entire volume of water so many times per day depending on the nutrient loading, hence the questions about the land around the pond.

Just from the limited information you gave, a single diffuser set up should be more than enough to properly aerate your pond.

As for the surface system. They are great emergency aerators or for ponds like trout ponds whereby the thermocline is to not be disturbed but in your case unless you want a fountain for esthetics and make the water look pretty as it is thrown up in the air it would just be overkill.

As for the stocking rates, I will leave that to the guys here that are more adept to stocking like Greg Grimes with Aquatic Environmental Services.

I'm sure others will chime in tomorrow morning as they do like I do and review the forum as I drink my first, second and third cup of coffee.

Again welcome and happy ponding.

Hi all,
Thanks for the great post. Aeration has been on my mind since day 1 when I dug my pond. Here is a little history on the pond.
Excavation 9/05
Size 1/3 to 1/2 acre
depth 2' to 8'
shape long with a very erratic shore line.
No dam underground spring fed with run off from surrounding Fields.
It is located at the bottom of a valley.
water level fluctuation 6" is the most I've seen in the last year and a half.
Fish stock 77 6-8" rainbows 50 6-8" Brooke's.
I have added gypsum and now clarity is about 2'

OK when the fish guy came to stock the Brooke's I asked if I should install an aerator. He stated that they stir the water to a point of equal water temp and that would cause fish kill.
I have made underwater rock mound to aid in stirring the water naturally. I am seeing the water get a slight green tint.
Do I need a system.
thanks
Phil

Phil

Found some posts that may be of interest to you.

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000426

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000429

Hopefully NE Mason will see this and comment. If not, try to email him. He has a beautiful trout pond in NH.

Have 2 acre pond 20 feet sloping to 2ft deep. 1200 ft from electricity. Considering 1200 feet of 2 inch pvc line to pond edge then one half inch tubing to 3 aerators either sunk clear tubing or weighted. Have read of pvc tube aerator with stone at 3ft and extension to near bottom so as to raise h2o and destratify. No idea as to what pump to use but thinking three quarter hp vane or piston. Could use membrane on bottom also . The pvc aerator would be 3 or 4 inch dia. Any comments, experience on piping air this far, compressor requirements or the "tube aerator". No flow to pond Summer

I'm lazy, I just call Sue at Vertex.

Stay away from the tube aerator it results in low water flows compared to a disk membrane diffuser.

I called vertex too. Have been running my system 24/7 for 4 years now. This year my pond water quality is very good. Have been using two double membrane diffusers Bacteria and aqua shade. Beach area and shallows cleared up and it seems that organics are better controlled this year. My pond renovation is going on its 4th year and my bluegills and bass are doing well.

This thread had some serious "meat" in it. Any additions to this by the pros would be much appreciated. I have certainly found over the years that the more I know, the less I know. I defer to the experts.

One topic I don't see covered on this thread is "under aeration" ~ this relates specifically to bottom diffused aeration. I was just on the phone the other day with a new pond owner ~ the 6.5 acre pond had just filled and he wanted a recommendation and a price estimate for a Vertex aeration system. He also mentioned that he really only had so much budgeted for this aeration project, which was about half of what he would need to adequately aerate. He thought he would be ok installing half of the necessary Air Stations and tubing and add to it later. I explained to him that he would be better off waiting until he could afford the whole system and since it was a new body of water he should be fine for a year or two. Many people are under the impression that some aeration is better than no aeration at all.... this is totally incorrect. If you throw a diffuser into the middle of a pond or lake you will de-stratify it, but you will not necessarily keep the dissolved oxygen levels up high enough to support fish or control nutrients. At least if a pond is stratified, there is some oxygen at the surface to keep your fish alive - sure, it is risky that your pond or lake could have a turn-over event, but if you inadequately mix the hypoxic subsurface water with the surface oxygenated water, you will get low oxygen water through out the water column, mixing nutrients and causing more problems than you started with... I have actually seen extremely low oxygen readings on the surface directly above a bubble column in a situation where there wasn't enough aeration installed. The rising bubbles were bringing up the dead water from the bottom, but not enough to bring the oxygen levels up. We have a case study here in Florida where someone purchased an aeration system (not one of ours) and it was grossly undersized! There were not diffusers in the deepest areas and this body of water was in such bad shape that even the birds were dying from the gasses. I can't stress how important it is to consult with someone who knows what they are talking about when it comes to aeration. There are just so many factors to consider.

If some air is not better then none at all and I am just asking... How can someone even think about using a windmill for air??? I mean it doesn't always run or run at the correct speed? So should windmills not even be used at all?? Unless you can back them up with some sort of motor?? Thanks,

RC

That's the problem with wind and solar systems. They really have to be kept to very small ponds that don't need a lot of air.