Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Controlling unwanted plants 4 weeks after tiliapia

I web page would hope for some improvment after 4 wks and 7 lbs of tilapia in a 1/2 acre pond

LoopTech,
In spite of all the “hoopla” about tilapia, like Bill Cody says, “it all depends”.

There have been repeatedly broad sweeping statements on the forum about the merits of tilapia that have been ill advised.

Do you have a heavy infestation of pondweed or other aquatic vegetation?
Based on my experience, FA becomes imbedded in the pondweed and tilapia are ineffective in removing.

Our pond looked similar to yours last year but after 7 grass carp/acre were introduced the pondweed disappeared and the tilapia did their job.

The same source will tell you that you can’t stock grass carp in the hot weather months but this information is incorrect in some situations – it all depends.

Give Todd Overton of Overton Fisheries a call – his advice is worth listening to.

By the way, this year the tilapia and grass carp have controlled both pondweed and FA.
Tilapia area amazing fish used under the correct conditions.

George Glazener
N.E. Texas

No pond weeds are present..Just F.A.

Tell us more about your pond - water depth - water quality (chemistry) - aeration - etc?

I took another look at your photo - do I see cow tracks in the upper end of your pond?
Perhaps excess nutrients?

I share your concerns - with the continuing drought FA is a big problem.

I'm sure someone on the forum can help.
Good luck

LoopTech,

A couple of questions on your situation and then a friendly neighbor question.

Is this the first year with Tilapia?

The reason I ask is that in my experience, it takes a good part of the summer for them to get ahead of an algae infestation in the first year. In my own case, in my first and second years with Tilapia, I found it beneficial to use Cutrine Plus in the early spring before Tilapia stocking to help the Tilapia "get on top of" the algae. Since those early years, however, I haven't had to use chemicals.

Second question....are you artificially feeding fish in that pond?

Artificial feed, according to SRAC and my own experience, can reduce the amount of natural food (i.e. algae) consumption by Tilapia by 50 to 70 %. I have definitely seen at least a 50% reduction in efficiency in a pond(mine) artificially fed. In addition, to reducing the Tilapia's effectiveness, artificial feed can increase nutrients which feeds the algae further. Before someone screams, I'm not putting down artificial feeding, in this case, simply stating some effects it can have on Tilapia effectiveness.

A comment, our very hot dry weather enhances algae production. Part of that is due to having the same amount of nutrients available in a smaller amont of water, i.e. raising the overall % of nutrients available to FA. Also, for some reason, FA disappears in my ponds after a good rain....which we don't seem to have any of lately. I'm sure the pros can give other reasons as well but hot dry weather seems to encourage algae production.

Like anything else, no one is saying (certainly not me) that Tilapia are 100% guranteed to cure all your problems. However, if you set up good conditions for their success, your individual probability of success improves. My own experiences with Tilapia, IMO, have been substantially improved, by not just throwing them in the pond, but by taking some steps to help them be successful. They have paid me back many fold, and I highly recommend them. I will say to anyone that Tilapia represent the best pond management tool available to pond meisters today.

I noticed you are into ranching and in East Texas. Wondering how your grass is doing and how hay production is shaping up for this year? I'm very concerned about getting adequate hay production this year.

This is my second year with tilapia.. and I was very happy with the results last year
No is the answer of artificially feeding fish

My hay production is running about 50% of a normal year.. One saving grace is, I was able to carry over 40 rolls from a couple of years ago(storage in old poultry House).. If we could only get a decent rain.. My situation would be much improved..

LoopTech,

Then my comment would be to be patient. Four weeks isn't long in these adverse conditions. Unlike some, I have not seen instant effects of Tilapia algae control...it takes time, and as I mentioned above, it took most of the season for me initially.

Those 40 rolls may be worth their weight in gold in another couple of months....and since you stored them inside, even more so.

I was looking for some erosion hay to do a muddy pond experiment. I found that it all got fed last year.

Regarding the tilapia, it reminds me of my grass carp. At the end of the first summer, I couldn't see any pondweed reduction. Then, the next year, there was no pondweed left.

They keep working just like dry rot and compound interest.

Albert Einstien said the most powerful force in the universe is compound interest...but then he didn't know about ponds and Tilapia.

Folks.. I got faith.. They will work..

I Still have hope.. Here is the lasted Jpg

Looptech,

Is your water dyed?

Nope.. I think that was just the sun angle

Looptech, it's a problem of scale. You have 7 pounds of tilapia and tons of FA. Even if each fish always ate 2x its weight in FA per day, it would still take weeks (and a couple of spawns) to see any significant results. I think stocking rates for major infestations needs to be a lot higher than rates for prevention and maintenance.

That's still a bunch of algae.

LoopTech,

None of my business and certainly not wanting to offend you but trying to help...I noticed a couple of trees on the inside banks of your pond. In addition to sucking up hundreds of gallons a year, they may cause you some dam integrity issues at some point.

Not to mention they add leaves that fuel algae growth.

You're correct on the trees.. Those 2 Catawba trees came up as volunters.. One is dying.. Soo my plans are to cut them down

They could cause worse problems dead eventually. Once they die and the roots decompose they may leave void areas.

It appears as though most of the heavy infestation is close to shore. Maybe some manual harvesting with a stiff rake would help get things moving. Re: catalpa trees, they should be getting worms on them if they are going to. The one that is dieing, could it be because it gets worms which defoliate it? If so, I bet that is a popular spot for the fish.
Maybe you can just trim them back severely to help prevent excess transpiration and growth.

Loop, I had incredible results with stocking the tilapia in my 1/2 pond as you can see from my Tilapia grow out tank thread. My pond did not, and has never had the amount algae that you have. I also stocked at least 3 or 4 times as many pounds of tilapia as you. I also have 2 grass carp and had a bumper crop of tadpoles this spring that I believe contributed to the outstanding results. Probably 300 to 400 of the tilapia I stocked were only about 2" long. I rarely see any of this size now because most have been eaten but this huge quantity may have contributed to getting the algae under control initially and now the larger tilapia are maintaining control. I admit that I did not have much faith in these fish in the beginning so I had a jug of Cutrine on the shelf, just in case (our tractor supply store always runs out just when you need it). The jug still sits, but I won't hesitate using it if things get out of control. If I was in your situation I would probably give the algae an application on at least half of the pond and see if the tilapia can take care of the rest.

Hadn't noticed this thread till now. ML mentioned that his FA seems to dissappear after rain. I assume he's talking about the floating stuff. Someone explained that FA grows on stuff in the pond and then floats when gas bubbles accumulate in the slimy stuff. Look close and you can see bubbles all over in it. A good rain will beat the air out of it and it sinks. Still there but on the bottom. I also think Looptech should try manual removal. I use a method that your pond looks perfect for. Get some floating rope, I got mine from a mail order surplus dealer. Stretch it across the pond (will take two people) and very slowly drag it accross the surface until you get it all into one corner. Now you need a third guy to start raking or scooping the stuff out. In an hour I can clean up a pond the size of what I see in your picture. One pass will get 50 to 75 percent of the stuff once you get the hang of it. I use a smelt net to scoop the stuff out rather than a rake. FA is just to fine for a rake.

Bz,

You are right, I believe, about the air bubbles. I've often wondered if one couldn't accomplish the same thing as rain by taking a water hose to the floating stuff. Much easier than raking...

Either way, raking or whatever, the FA will be back. Tilapia is the only way I have found to get recurring control of the algae...and no work required.

Wish I could stock tilapia here in MN cause that's what I'd do for sure. I don't think they'd survive even if I could get some but I'm sure the DNR won't let you put them in anyway. My pond needs cleaning right now from FA and DW so I'll probably do it this week. I'll try to get some pictures of the rope method. I'd like to document for myself what it looks like before and after.

The tiliapa finally went to work

heres the B-4 JPG

Loop,

Great shots showing BF and AF.

As you may know the algae actually grows on the bottom and what you see on top is stuff released from the bottom. Your Tilapia have been working their magic on that bottom stuff the entire time and now have it to where no "stuff" is available to come to the top.

It just takes time, but they do pay off.

That looks like a miracle to me!

Wow. I always was a believer, but that is great. Wish I could get
them here is GA. Maybe I can get some for a science project.

Wish I could get the tilapia too but can't. I took some pictures today of how my rope dragging process works. I have a pond that is long and thin running north/south. The north end has the best bank access so whenever we get a south wind all my DW and FA is blown to the north bay and I can use the method I've descibed above to remove most of the floating stuff. I don't have a problem with rooted weeds. First picture is before I started, note about 80% water is covered.


Next picture is of the drag in process, you can't see the rope but you can see how it is gathering up the weeds.


Next picture is from same vantage point after the operation which was two drags of the rope. It took me and my oldest daughter 1 hour 20 minutes to complete two drags.


This next picture is the after shot from the other end of bay taken from my bridge so you get a better look at what's left. A third drag would have removed half of what's still there.


The pics show the northern most 120 feet of my pond which is 550 feet long total. The rest of the pond is completely clean of everything because the wind blew it all into the section pictured. I know that you pros out there that manage ponds for others can't take the time for this type approach but for the guy doing it himself I think it beats chemicals. I would have spent who knows how much money and at least as much time if not more spraying and would have been creating lots of dead vegetations and chemicals in the pond. This way I got some excercise and at least have it under control. I will have to do this every two or three weeks in July and August do keep it controlled to this degree.

Obviously as I wrote in an article for my state aquaculture newsletter here is a niche market someone should exploit. (producing talapia for recreational pond meisters to eat up algae).And the kicker is talapia are easy to produce and growout!

People are growing them out for food fish at ridiculously low prices (talapia are considered a lower value fish vs. other species) but not for this purpose!

Wish I had the indoor facilities!

Looptech,

Any possiblity I could use your pics for my next aquaculture newsletter? If you agree I would need your name though. Could you email me at jjbaird@ligtel.com ?

Sorry I couldn't pay you. I do the newsletter for free and the newsletter is also free.

I would be happy for you to use them.. Maybe you could send me a copy of your newletter..I sent you and Email

Looptech,

Got your email. Thanks. I'll let you know when the newsletter is online.

I've been working to perfect my DW removal. I was using a floating rope which I showed worked pretty good above. I found that if I had lots of DW it would eventually be too much for rope to hang on to. So I invented what I'll call a prickly rope. Here is picture of beginning to stretch it across pond by tying to dock. I was working alone.

Here is picture after I started dragging rope.

Here is picture after having cleaned 1/2 of pond and begin working on the rest.

After doing this twice to get each half of pond she's cleaned up. Worked pretty good but still room for improvement.

bz -- could I have permission to use your pictures for a class (fisheries management)? It's a nice example of a mechnical control program.

bz, very nice. An engineers' wheels in the brain are always turning. Quite an option to Sonar in a smaller pond. I am impressed.

I am also impressed. Is it totally DW and no WM? reason for asking was that I couldnt find anything that would gather WM.. I know I read somewhere where you purchased your floating rope but could you refresh my memory? Thanks

How do you get it out of the pond once it is gathered up on the edge?

BZ, I love it!

Dave W., yes you may use the pictures for anything you like.
The rope is nothing more than floating Poly rope that I bought at Home Depot I think, 100 feet for about $6. I put 1000 nylon cable ties on the rope, $15. Took me 4 hours. After I trap all the DW at the edge of the pond I scoop it out with a long handled net. Took my about 2 hours to do the whole pond by myself. Goes twice as fast if you have help. Still involves some work. Trialsguy, we don't have WM in Minnesota. Don't think it would work with WM since there are no hanging roots like DW. This is a viable method for a small pond but will work with a larger pond if you have a small bay that the DW can blow into when the wind it right. My pond is 1/2 acre but the section you see in the pics is only about 1/4 of the whole thing and about 120 feet across. The rest of my pond is some distance away to the south but connected with a 15 foot wide channel. Whenever I get a south wind all DW blows into the small section of pond and once I clean that section the whole pond is done. That's what I did the day I took the pics. The wind brought the DW into the small pond and 2 hours later the whole thing is done. Unfortunately with all the heat we've had this summer I've been doing this every two weeks.

bz :

Good job. Stay ahead of the DW as it grows fast. Some types can double in quantity every 24 hrs.

Ewest, tell me about it. In the heat we've been having I've seen it double every day. I usually have to do this only 3 or 4 times a year and I think I've done it 5 times already. Here's an interesting note. This past spring I began pumping my pond water out into the bog in hopes of filtering nutrients out so that I wouldn't get so much of this stuff. Impossible to tell if it worked at all cause I think the weather plays a large part. But while I do have a bumper crop of DW this year I have almost no FA. Does the heat inhibit FA or could my removal of nutrients helped? I think the only way I'll ever know is to do some nutrient testing periodically for several years. Anyone know of an inexpensive way to do that?

bz :

With the dw cutting off the sunlight from the pond bottom some then that will result in less FA. In addition the dw will use some of the nutrients which means less for the FA. One problem with dw is how to deal with the seed bed (turions) with out systemic herbicide that stays in the water for a while.

http://www.rook.org/earl/bwca/nature/aquatics/spirodela.html

In fall, budding pouches produce smaller, rootless, dark green or brownish daughter plants called turions. These dense, dormant, starch filled structures settle to the bottom to overwinter.
Plants may overwinter as turions, or as seeds, sinking and resting at the bottom of the pond until they germinate.

Guess what I just found. I seine made specially for skimming DW and FA off of ponds. Might work with WM too. Take a look:
http://www.pondsolutions.com/pond-nets.htm