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I have a significant number of naturally produced hybrids in this main pond. Some RESxGSF but mostly CNBGxGSF.

They were actually produced in my sediment pond I assume because of regular turbid water inflows (sometimes difficult for species to identify each other) and a very limited number of GSF to spawn with (mostly RES and CNBG). This situation seemed to set up the perfect conditions to get lots of hybrids. When I had a runoff accident and was having a massive fish kill in that 1/10th acre pond the fish were gasping at the surface and the wind blew them to one end so I just dip netted thousands of fish from an inch long up to 6" or so and transferred them to my main pond. I mostly did not want to loose the CNBG and RES I was raising in that pond but along with them were all the hybrids too and no time to separate.

I have learned to appreciate the hybrids and for a pan fish fishery I really like them.

An anecdote from a few nights ago. I was fishing off the dock for BG to transfer down to my old pond that I think the cormorants mostly wiped out in that pond. So I did not really care what size and was just using my crappie rod like a cane pole flipping the small jig in shallow water near the bank and pulling one fish right after the other out to put in a bucket of water to take to my old pond. By my early results you would have thought I only had GSF and hybrids in my pond. Those fish are so much more aggressive they will very often be the first fish to the hook. But after catching a half dozen or so greenies and hybrids, out of the next 30 fish all but two or three were BG.

I have seen this happen many times. Just by a quick fishing survey a person might think he has a pond full of GSF. But in reality in my pond they comprise only a very small percentage and after catching the really aggressive ones then the BG get their chance.


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Hey John, love your pics you post on this thread. None from the recent catch?? confused lol

Glad your getting time to fish. I too wonder about the GSF/BG thing. Threads like this one are some of my favorites to follow.

Thanks for posting like you do.


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Thanks!

I catch lots of BG. We fillet quite a lot and have been trying to move 15 to 20 a day to the old pond.

I don't think anyone wants to see pics of all my small BG though. grin


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A catch is a catch brother. lol. I like seeing the variations of hybrids. The BG/GSF. Maybe there should be a grant to study those variations. laugh


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These fry were gathered up in the overflow tube. They had swam up the 8" tube from my main pond. There was a trickle of water overflowing from the sediment pond and some of them were trying to jump up the 6" high 90 degree elbow into the sediment pond with no luck.

I think they are BG but I suppose they could be LMB fry. Too small for me to identify. They are maybe 3/8" long. Dipped some up with an aquarium net and put them in a glass jar for a picture. Either my phone or the photographer did not do a very good job, but maybe one of them is good enough for someone to ID these fry.

After the glass jar I put them in a small concrete pond out our back door that had no fish in it. That was a few days ago and the fish seem to be doing fine and no floaters that I saw. Maybe I can grow them big enough to get a positive ID.

I assumed these fish came from my main pond and swam up the overflow tube for a safe place to hide. It just dawned on me they could have came from the sediment pond while it was overflowing and they just stayed and grouped up in the overflow.

Edit: Could be GSF also. GSF in both ponds as well as RES

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Last edited by snrub; 06/03/18 09:26 PM.

John

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The body depth makes me doubt they are LMB. It will be interesting to see if you can grow some out to a recognizable size. What are you going to feed them?


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The little plastic lined concrete pond is my wifes. It is half full and maybe has 30 gallon of water in it. She had a knee replaced recently so the pond has went without care this spring. Our airco water drips into it and that is the only water it has had this spring. It is loaded with algae and snails and I would assume plenty of the tiny critters small fish that size eat. There are Arrowhead plants growing in it from last year also.

So for at least the current time I will feed them nothing as they have plenty of "green water". As they start to grow I have some Optimal "starter" pellets I can throw a few in. If they actually make it to an inch or so and none have died I probably have too many fish for the BOW size (unless I aereate or turn the water pump on) but will cross that bridge if I get that far.

If they are BG it is not like I have a shortage of them so will not care so much of their demise. But I would like to raise them up enough to tell for sure what they are. Just for kicks.

Last edited by snrub; 06/03/18 09:36 PM.

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Carolynn tied into a nice 4+# CC last night. Her idea of fishing is throwing a line out while she sits and knits. So CC fishing is right down her alley.

I actually catch as many or more CC than she does fishing for BG with a tiny bait like a Gulp Alive Waxie. I like action. If I am not catching anything I quickly get bored and move on to something else. She is the opposite. Sitting and knitting is her thing so if she doesn't catch anything she it still satisfied.

But last night (late afternoon actually) was her night. With a hunk of GSF on a hook resting on the bottom she cam up with the nice fish pictured below.

She is going to try smoking the fillets. She smokes quite a bit of pork, chicken and some cheese. Smoked some BG once and it turned out good (according to those who like smoked fish - I'm not a big fan of even smoked salmon). We will see. I think she is going to try the smoked CC out on her knitting girl friends at a knitting party.

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Last edited by snrub; 06/17/18 05:41 PM.

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CNBG DO survive in Kansas. Well in SE Kansas anyway and for a few years at least if winters are not too severe. I hope we are able to keep them long term.

The first two pictures below are of an obvious CNBG male. This is most likely a fish that was originally stocked in my sediment pond in fall of 2014. It was likely caught by hook and line and transferred to this main 3 acre pond the next year. I suppose it could have been a later spawn from reproduction of CNBG but based on its maturity I am going to assume it was one of the original stockers from Dunn's Fish Farm out of Oklahoma.

The third picture is of a very typical northern BG male caught in the same area as the CNBG for comparison.

The last picture I am not sure about but I think it might also be a CNBG of the female persuasion. I am not nearly as sure about it being CNBG rather than northern BG, but the jaw color sure leads me to believe it and it looks "different" than most of my native northern BG. Wide vertical bands also. At some point I am sure I will be catching crosses between CNBG and BG as they interbreed.

Since the main pond was originally stocked with northern BG they are by far the dominant species of BG in this pond. The CNBG likely only comprise a few percent of the total BG so it is a treat when I catch one.

The big male CNBG was caught right off the edge of my dock, right near where two schools of small BG fry hung out earlier in the season. I hope those schools of fry were fathered by this very nice CNBG. Would like to see some more like him in my pond.

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Last edited by snrub; 06/20/18 11:16 PM.

John

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Today was not only a treat catching the CNBG pictured above but also caught 3 RES from the main pond right in the same area. I caught all three right at the edge of the dock near where the posts holding the dock up. All three fish were caught within a 10 minute period and no further than 15 feet apart. I also have some cedar trees under the dock for cover.

The first two fish I am sure are pure RES. When I caught it I also thought the third was RES but now looking at in the pictures it could possibly be a RES/CNBG cross. All three fish did not have particularly prominent red/orange opercular tabs. They were quite small actually. Not sure if this is environment, females or what.

But the third fish (last two pictures) the orange border was especially thin and does not show up in the pictures at all but holding the fish I could tell there was an orange border. It definitely has RES parentage. But is it RES or a hybrid? What do you think?

Edit: originally had wrong last picture. Changed it.


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Last edited by snrub; 06/20/18 11:43 PM.

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Nice looking CNBG John, congratulations. Did you have to special order those from Dunn's, or are they something that are usually on the route truck?


2011 five acre pond. LMB, SMB, HSB, SPB, BG, CNBG, HBG, RES, WM, CC, BCP, GC, FHM, GSH
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I’ve stocked red ears multiple times in my ponds but don’t think I’ve caught but one in about 30 years. I consider them a myth.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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No Dave, they are not a myth. Just mean. They do it to spite you. They are laughing at you as we speak Dave. laugh

See info on RES. Unknown facts about Redear Sunfish


RES info and links

Last edited by snrub; 06/21/18 09:47 AM.

John

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Originally Posted By: djnks
Nice looking CNBG John, congratulations. Did you have to special order those from Dunn's, or are they something that are usually on the route truck?


I ordered them ahead but they brought them on their route truck. It is kind of funny because they hardly mention they have BG at all. They really push the HBG. But if you look at their price list and order page they list the CNBG.

I put 100 of them along with 200 RES in my 1/10th acre sediment pond when it first filled. I think I could have put 10 CNBG and 200 RES and still ended up with more CNBG than RES. They reproduced and grew like crazy. I started catching the adults after about 6 months at 5 to 6 inches and started transfering to my main pond. This is likely one of those early transfers. Later I transferred hundreds and hundreds of fingerling offspring also.


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I may restock a bunch of them next year. I have very few bass left after drought so they just might make it. Or, I guess I have very few left and a lot of big bluegills. And, about 6 or 7 hybrid stripers. I'll also probably put in more stripers.

I worry about the bluegills getting out of hand without bass as a predator. And, droughts hit me pretty hard a couple of years ago. It could easily happen again.

Now, I have a great BG pond without a top predator. That is a recipe for disaster .


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
I’ve stocked red ears multiple times in my ponds but don’t think I’ve caught but one in about 30 years. I consider them a myth.


I'm shocked at all the RES in my BOW! But only when electrofishing... wink

Last edited by anthropic; 06/21/18 12:58 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Kind of the same story in my 1/20th acre forage pond. I don't electrofish it but throw cast net. RES are relatively hard to catch by hook and line yet by cast net I have removed several hundred fingerlings and several larger sizes.

Shorty is about the only one on here regularly catching them, or at least the only one that posts catches.

Last edited by snrub; 06/21/18 01:15 PM.

John

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I wish I could learn to throw a cast net. I have spent hours and hours trying from time to time, but it usually lands in a heap. About one out of 10 throws is good.

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I'm thinking seriously about getting me a hand crank generator and finding out just whats swimming around my pond. Its too deep to be very productive with a cast net. The spawning area is about the only place it may work, but thats where all the structure/cover is. Good way to tear up a net.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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Need someone to hold your beer while you try that generator thing out? I've heard they work better while standing in the water. We need video's. laugh

Back when I was young hand crank generators were still fairly readily available by tearing one out of an old hand crank phone. (showing my age and IQ) They would make your hair stand up. I got kicked off the school bus once because a little kid cried when a bunch of us were holding hands and cranking her up. Education in school ain't what it used to be. Those generators supposedly would bring fish to the surface, but I would not know.

Cast nets work best where you can find fish concentrated. Otherwise not so well.


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Thanks for the info John. I see that their route truck is going to be in our neighborhood again on July 12th. I'll give them a call and see if they will have any CNBG on the truck.


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Hey shrub,
I've actually come across several on Amazon. Just don't know what voltage I need to be considering to be effective. The secret is to mount two lengths of chain (long enough to get close to the bottom) on each end of a 2x4 with a lead wire attached to each end. The 2x4 will act as a insulator and when you crank the handle the voltage is passed thru the water between the chains. Not sure how far apart they need to be...yet. May still want a rubber mat to stand on tho!!

Last edited by Mike Whatley; 06/22/18 07:13 AM.

.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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I think it is a combination of both the voltage and current that makes it both effective and dangerous.

Spark plugs I think are 30 or 40 thousand volts but very low current. Welders (which will give you a good shock if hands are sweaty) vary but as I recall are around 50 volts but up to several hundred amps. Electric fencers are up there in the high voltage low current category.

Those old hand crank telephone generators must have varied in both depending on how fast you cranked. A slow crank and it would barely give you a buzz. As you increased the speed your muscles would contract and get to where you could not let go till the person on the crank stopped. I suspect that would be considered dangerous and unadvised in today's age but we just considered it fun. We were rednecks and didn't even know the word. Never killed anybody we know of.

Last edited by snrub; 06/22/18 09:21 AM.

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I'd love to get some first hand reports on the old telephone crank and how well they work for fish surveys. I have heard stories about "back in the day" when they tried it and it would only bring up catfish.


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Originally Posted By: John Fitzgerald
I wish I could learn to throw a cast net. I have spent hours and hours trying from time to time, but it usually lands in a heap. About one out of 10 throws is good.


John I just have a baby cast net and they are not too hard. Get up into the bigger sizes and I bet they are tricky.

One thing I have found to be important is that you coil up the retrieve rope and hold it in your hand properly. If I get tired or lazy and just kind of bunch that rope helter skelter most times the rope will catch the edge of the weights as they fan out and destroy the pattern.

I'm not at all good at throwing the one I have but can do a respectable job close to the shore which fortunately is where the RES fingerlings hang out near sunset. I can throw a longer throw pretty good "some days". It seems like if I get it right I can throw for a number of times and get it right. But if I start throwing badly I just as well quit for a while because the harder I try the worse I get. It takes a fluid, almost lazy, motion to get the weights to fan out into a nice circle. If I start "trying" too hard I throw tacos.

Maybe I can embarrass myself at snrub's PBF informal get together in September and give a demonstration.

Last edited by snrub; 06/22/18 09:47 AM.

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