Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Third and fourth pond fish

OK, I am fortunate because I am starting to plan a 3rd and 4th pond. My first pond is a BG, RES, LMB, CC pond (>1 acre). My second pond will hopefully shape up as a GSH, YP, RES, SMB pond (about 1 acre). I have two more sites, in woods, that I hope to build ponds in the next 5 years, but I would like to consider alternate top predators. I want species that will reproduce. One pond could be a catfish pond. I would like the largest species that will reproduce in a 1/2 to 1 acre pond that will have a deep hole but extensive shallow water. It would be nice if there was a pike or pickerel species that would spawn in the 4th pond. Input on predator choices or other thoughts are appreciated. Life is good!

Sounds exciting!!

Maybe some walleye?

Could also have a seasonal trout pond.

That's exciting RAH! As far as reproducing larger fish, I thought of pike right away as well. I am unsure of their spawning requirements, but do know that they do have a tendency to stunt (hammer handles) in some conditions.

Walleye and Pike sound interesting, but we will need to hear from the experts on recruitment. To warm for a sustaining population of trout in central Indiana (I am hoping for a spawning species).

Walleye are unlikely to spawn, obviously, but unsure of pike. I believe they will, however with their size potential, not sure how many would thrive in a ~1 acre pond.

I assume you are close enough to these ponds to manage them fairly aggressively. If so, what about blue catfish? I know you are already planning on channel cats, but blues do get larger and can spawn in small ponds.

I doubt WE or NP would spawn in a 1 acre pond. CP would under most circumstances. Not sure I know of a pond with only CP as primary predator. Sourcing CP is the major challenge...

Blue cats would be cool if they would spawn. there will be no intensive management. They are close enough, but I have a large property and higher priorities. Chain pickerel would be cool if I could find some.

Blues/Flatheads/Channels are cavity spawners. Keeping enough forage for them will be a priority. Is feeding them in the picture?

For flatheads once they get large, if the pond will sustain a good bloom, I know Gizzard Shad reproduce like rabbits, but you should make durn sure that no runoff will flow to another pond on the property.

Otherwise, GSH and BG for forage is what I'm thinking.

I could add structure for catfish spawning. I will almost certainly have muskrats and beavers also to make cavities. Gizzard shad is a great idea for catfish forage! They are already in the creek that both ponds will flow into. Would a mix of catfish species work (blues and flatheads)? No feeding for now. What factors determine if CP will spawn in a pond? Maybe mature fatheads would cut down on the muskrats?

CP spawn over the dead aquatic vegetation from the previous year.

These two ponds will get lots of tree leaves. Will that adversely affect blue or flathead catfish, or CP? As you said, finding CP may exclude them as a possibility. How does one keep a BG pond from overpopulating (other than a lot of fishing)? Can one include a predator with a low reproductive rate (one that does not need periodic restocking) such that the BG are kept from stunting? Any advantages to WMB over BG?

what would be the likely result in a 1 acre pond stocked with various sunfish species including GSF, WMB, PS, and BG?

No help to you, but this question intrests me as well.

Just those fish themselves, without a top end predator?

My part of the question, not to hyjack this thread. Would be how much cross breeding would be done? Would you still manage to get pure strain of each of them or would it be impossible.

In addition to Lukkyseven's question, would you end up with any fun angling opportunities, or would everything stunt. Would a pond being managed for trophy catfish be hurt by a combination of these species along with gizzard shad, and would the catfish (blues and/or flathead) help produce more trophy sized sunfish?

In my opinion, unless done perfectly (quantities, habitat, ongoing management), what you would end up with is one single species dominating and others would be rarities.

Well I assure there will be no perfection from me!

Perfect was the wrong word. No pond is perfect, obviously. I just think it would be very difficult to manage multiple species fighting over basically the same forage base without one coming out dominant and beating down all the others.

That makes good sense to me. I suppose that in a pond where the goal is big catfish, it would do no harm to throw different sunfish along with gizzard shad in and see which species does best as forage?

Unless the catfish are very large, I wouldn't use Gizzards as forage. IIRC, a high % of the LMB population has to be in the mid 20" range before Gizzards are stocked. I think most catfish have a smaller mouth gape than LMB (not 100% sure on Flatheads) but I'd be worried about the Gizzards overpopulating and taking up the majority of available biomass. Up North, Gizzards can grow larger than most LMB can eat in one year.

What forage species would you stock to start a blue and fathead catfish pond off with? Would stocking a mix of wild sunfish cause problems for the catfish? Would I be better off with just BG and RES? I know the sunfish mix would have WMB as well as BG. Would gambusia be bad?

I think you're fine with any Lepomis mix of species, including Gams, FHM or GSH in the mix. I'd throw some RES in there anyway just to keep any snail population from taking off.

Thank you - I had to Google Lepomis though

...including, Gams... weren't on the list tho