Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose SMB/YP/RES in one acre dug pond

The saga continues - they actually do not have them yet available at the fishery...

Sorry RAH....apparently I've misunderstood something, somewhere.

I have conflicting information on availability of perch sizes (in writing) from another supplier, so my guess is that its not confusion on your part.

I have another YP question. I just ordered 25 8-10" YP and 25 2-4" RES from a supplier (the perch were very expensive!). If I put these in my 1 acre pond (in late November), will the YP eat the RES? There are a lot of FHM fry already in the pond.

YP are piscivorous and yes a 8-10" YP can utilize a 2" YP as forage. 3"+ are probably safe from YP. Doesn't mean they will be hammered, but could be. The densest forage type is likely to be utilized as forage primarily - in your case, FHM. Still that's a low stocking density for a 1 acre fishery. Typical stocking rate recommendations are for 250 RES/ac.

I am planning to build some 8'L x 4'D x 4'w cages. Maybe I should put those RES under 3" in there? I know the stocking rate is low. I am hoping for reproduction.

RES will likely die in cages...very difficult to feed train them, unless you want to feed them crawlers, shrimp, mealworms etc. If you're going to cage anything, the YP are the best bet. Many of us here cage and grow out YP with success. I have 400 in 2 cages myself right now waiting for Spring gender ID and release.

What is your goal with the RES? Establish self sustaining and viable population I figure? If so, and you don't want to stock 250/ac prior to adding the SMB and maybe YP or other predator fish, then you can stock larger RES to escape predation now or in Spring.

I think your 3-4" RES are ok even with YP there...if you want to err on the side of caution stock more RES, try for 3"+ fish. When stocking such low numbers one isn't afforded much margin for error or predation...

My gut feeling after feed training RES over the summer is that RES likely have eyes that are super sensitive to light, more so than other sunfish. I believe this is the reason they do not feed train well.

Shaded cages and feeding times at dusk and dawn, or even after dark will likely lead to a higher percentage of RES becoming feed trained. That is the hypothesis I am going to test next year.

I should mention that I have a few of my feed trained RES in in an aquarium in my basement. I started feeding them rosey red FHM last week to see how they might utilize the abundant GSH hatches in my pond. Guess what? 95% of the RRFHM that have been captured and eaten have been after the lights go out in almost pitch black conditions. During the day hardly any RRFHM vanish. Last Friday after work I added 23 small RRFHM minnows to the tank, my RES ignored them all evening when the tank lights were on. When I got up the next morning and turned the lights on there were just four left.

There is a reason RES like to hang out in deeper water during the day.

That is really cool stuff Shorty.

I'll just release all the fish and see what happens. I'll ask the neighbor that fishes my LMB pond if he will move any large RES he catches to the new pond.

With abundant FHM available, I doubt many if any of the 2"-4" RES will be eaten by your 8"-10" YP. Especially if more of the RES are leaning more towards the 4" size...

We will see when they come. The main goal is big SMB, so I think that the RES are a bonus anyway.

My experiences agree with CJBS. The large YP of 8"-10" will eat mostly the FHM that are 1"-1.5" long. When those individuals become scarce the perch will focus on eating 1.7"-2" FHM. Largest FHM 2.5"-3" will be still present for spawning season. If the YP are feed trained even fewer minnows will be eaten. I think the larger perch will pretty much ignore the 2"-4" Res as long as FHM are common. Plan on most of the RES to be in the smaller sizes of 2"-4". Let us know about the sizes you receive.

Thank you - I may add larger RES next spring. Hopefully, only 25 YP in a 1 acre pond that had 5 lbs of FHM added this spring will keep them happy. Not sure how the 50 GSH did.

Based on my initial stocking of 3 dozen GSH in 2011 I am guessing your GSH are fat, happy, and too big for your YP to eat.

That is encouraging!

The YP will eat the FHM before eating very many shiners.

Looking forward to next years stocking and trying to locate fish or at least find potential places that may have availability, I wanted to recap where I'm at now and what my initial plans were moving forward.

Current Recap

Pond dug in Summer of 2013 has completely filled and has minimal to no vegetation.

Stocked in 2013

Aug 24th - 10# - FHM
Aug 24th - 75 - 2-3" RES
Oct 17th - 200 - Papershell Crayfish
Oct 25th - 600 - 2 1/4" GSH

2014 Plans

Install feeder prior to stocking in 2014
Early March 2014 - 150 - 4-6" YP Feed trained
Early March 2014 - 75 - 6-8" YP Feed trained
Early March 2014 - 25 - 8-10" YP Feed trained

Fall 2014 - 40 - 4-6" SMB
Fall 2014 - 100 - 2-3" RES


Since the FHM likely didn't spawn this year (haven't even seen them since stocking), does it still make sense to stock the perch in the spring of 2014 or should I push my 2014 plans off until 2015? Or will the feed and existing FHM in the pond be enough to keep the perch occupied so they don't clean out the pond before I add the SMB in the fall?

Yep seen this first hand this year. The FHM are really hard to find even after one year. All I have is these odd shiners of some sort. They are much faster and harder to catch. I just hope what ever happened for the spawn of the shiners this past year keeps up next. This 2014 year perch spawn for us is going to be much bigger now that all 400 are 6-9"s.

Cheers Don.

Huntmaster, I would give your FHM and GSH another year before stocking... I would stock your YP in the fall of next year. You can stock the additional RES this spring if you like. You can consider stocking the SMB next fall as well with the YP. I think you will be OK, not waiting for the following year to stock the SMB...

Huntmaster - a 2nd option is in March early Apr stock only the 150 4"-6" pellet trained perch, and some (25-30) of the 6"-8" YP. Then in fall stock the 25 8"-10". perch with the SMB. If you regularly feed the 4"-6" YP and a few larger YP they will essentially stay fat on pellets and will not eat very many of the minnows. The spring stocking of a few of the larger 6"-8" YP will insure a YP spawn in Apr of 2014. A spring YP spawn prior to the later SMB stocking results in a strong population of YP that will be the backbone of the SMB forage base.

A 3rd option is to stock all 3 sizes and numbers of the YP as planned and in addition add another 10 lbs of FHM in spring before the FHM start spawning. This will still provide you with lot of minnows for the fall SMB-RES stocking.

I find that both above options work well. Try one of them and next fall report back here telling us how many FHM and shiners you are seeing. FHM and Shiners should both be very apparent and eating pellets along with the YP.

Very doubtful you had a FHM spawn from the August stocking of FHM. You are not seeing them because they stay deep when there are no predators pushing minnows to the shallows for cover-refuge areas.

Would you expect 8-10" YP stocked this fall (delivered today) to spawn next year? How can I tell when I should add SMB? I want to add a small number of SMB and let them reproduce (1 acre pond). If there is someone interested in documenting and publishing the results of my yp/smb experience in Indiana, this may be an opportunity to get this scenario documented in the peer-reviewed literature. I have published a bit, but not remotely in this area, but if someone with more fishery biology experience is interested, I would welcome the collaboration.

Fall Stocked YP at 8"-10" long will definitely spawn the next spring assuming they have a maintenance diet late fall and overwinter. Often 6"-8" long female perch are capable of spawning. Well fed YP will go into winter with enough body fat to finish egg development for the spring spawn. Midwestern and northern yellow perch start egg development in August.

I would add SMB after you verify that you had a perch spawn in spring. Presence of YOY perch takes some of the SMB predation pressure off the minnows/shiners/invertebreates.

Thank you - When should perch stop being fed (water temp or date) in central Indiana?

Mine have quit actively feeding on the surface about a week ago at water temps around 54F-52F. I still feed the YP some moist sinking pellets on warm days. They will eat little amounts of sinking food at temps below 50F.