Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Minnow ID please

I am pretty sure one of these is a stone roller, but the other ones look different (at least in color) from the creek chubs that I caught with them. Any positive IDs on the silver ones?

Bottom one is a white sucker.

Can you give a description of where the other three were caught? I'm guessing IN? What type of BOW? I have good ideas but that will help...

The two middle ones are some sort of shiner similar to the narrow bodied emerald shiner, but likely not an emerald. In the one picture you can see that the lateral line has a dip in it in before the dorsal fin. I wish the top one was up from the bottom of the bag so we could better see its entire head. It reminds me of a silverjaw minnow (aka longjaw minnow).
http://www.fosc.org/Images/Fish/large/silverjaw-minnow.jpg

Bill, I was thinking it was a silverjaw minnow as well. Unfortunately, the corner of the container blocks seeing the jaw which is tell tail.

I would say it is a silver shiner, Notropis photogenis.

Well, I was so sure that the sucker was a stone roller that I released two into a pond that has GSH and FHM in it. I am planning to add SMB, YP, RES this fall or next. I seem to remember that white suckers will not breed in a pond, so hopefully they will eventually get pulled out or die of old age. I also released the shiners (8) into this pond. Hopefully they will be good forage. I put about 20 creek chubs in the LMB, BG pond as food. After this last goof with the sucker, I will not be adding any fish with a turned down mouth to my ponds. After I released the sucker, I started to realize that it could have been a carp, but the shape seemed to tubular for that. I know that I should have waited for you guys, but it was getting late and I was not sure if they would make it in a bucket. All the fish were caught in a small stream that is way down due to no rain.

Set your self up a live box or build one to hold fish for a few days until you get verification as to what they are. A live box can be made from 1/2" hardware cloth or plastic mesh on a wood or PVC frame. Float it in the pond and you won't need aeration to keep fish alive. A mini-live box would be the liner from a two piece minnow bucket.

Great idea. I really have no excuse for letting them go in the pond. I know better!

Yeah, I wouldn't stress the suckers. They will most likely get huge and die of old age, but it will be very unlikely that they will spawn... Even if they do spawn, it may not be a very big deal. They are not overly fast growing and would provide excellent forage.

This pond is fed with run off and field tiles, so there is very little sustained running water. The suckers were less that 4 inches long, so hopefully they will not eat too many minnows. I was hoping to diversify the shiner forage, but I am just not that knowledgeable about identifying the minnows, and even when I have seen a species (like stone rollers), I seem to goof. Hopefully the hatchery will have some YP, SMB, and RES this fall so I can get a few preditors in there.

I doubt the suckers will eat a single forage fish.

That's good to know. At least I got a lesson that turned out not to be so harsh. No more releasing fish without a PondBoss review! I am really grateful for the help from the experts! It would be great to have folks closer with similar interests.

White Suckers are excellent for NP bait.

A gal who run's a local tackle/bait shop told me they were taken off the gestapo list for VHS. No papers required. They ain't cheap either!

Come on down and help me seine

BTW - I was feeding the BG today and Yerdle the snapping turtle showed up as he occasionally does. This time he ignored the food and focused on the BG. Snap, snap, snap - success! He nailed a free meal. First time that I ever saw that.

Yeah, it can be real hard to find someone to help run a seine. I have come up with a method to run a 30' beach seine by myself. It isn't as effective, but still works fairly well.

The two suckers may eat a little algae and do a little bottom roiling to help make a little turbidity to the water (aeration mixing) to help reduce algae growth. I've caught white suckers 22"-24" long. IMO white suckers would be better algae eaters than koi or carp because the suckers will not successful spawn while koi, carp and goldfish regularly produce offspring.
http://www.lakesuperiorstreams.org/understanding/whitesucker.html

More minnow pictures for ID. This time they will stay in a fish tank until you guys weigh in.

Those are all shiners and the largest one (last pic) is a common shiner. Not positive about the ID of the smaller ones. Let's see what CJ says. Notice the dark or dusky spot at the front base of the dorsal fin of the smaller shiners. This is likely a 'key' character. The northern redfin shiner has this character which is what I think they are. IMO they are not common shiner because the insertion of the dorsal fin of the smaller shiners is slightly behind the pelvic fins, a feature not displayed by common shiners.

None of those photographed in the bag will be a problem in the pond but they might not spawn. We have found out from another member here that common shiners will spawn in a pond if there is current or splashing current from something like a waterfall.

Looks like a combination of redfin shiners not in breeding colors and striped shiners(close relative of common shiner). They are all definitely shiner species though. As Bill said, they most likely will not spawn in your pond but shouldn't cause any issues.

Thank you both. I keep hoping that I'll catch something to improve the forage base for future SMB, but my source is a small steam, so it is no surprise that they are not adapted to spawning in a pond. I'll add them just in case there are some other shiner species in the mix that will spawn. They all look very much alike to me, and none have "sucker" mouths, so I think I am OK?

Are there any common fish (especially shiners) in small streams in Indiana that make good forage species in ponds (spawn)?

How small of a stream are we talking? Bluntnose minnows and spotfin shiners are both found in IN, they're generally in streams 15'-50' in size.

Do you have a larger seine? If so, go to a bigger river near you and try seine along rocky rip rap or other cover...

The stream usually averages over 15' wide but is way down due to drought. Maybe I should seine the deeper holes? I have stayed in the shallower parts to keep my shorts dry. There is at least one hole with some large carp still in it.

Seining the pools during low water can catch lots of fish species. You can get spotfins and steelcolor shiners in a stream that size. Both look very similar and are very good pond spawners. Bluntnose should be common in streams the size you mention and smaller even ditches. I catch lots of bluntnose in 1ft-4ft wide roadside drainage ditches. You will need quite a bit of submerged vegetation to maintain these fish in a pond with smallies which are pretty aggressive on minnows and shiners. These minnow/shiner species are the backbone for yellow perch fisheries in my area.

For a healthy smallie pond I think the larger individuals of golden shiner will be the best shiner to flourish and persist.