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Joined: Dec 2009
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Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
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What are the lethal limits for CNBG?
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Scott is going to find out... As I understand it, if you pond freezes, your CNBG probably aren't gonna make it.
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Joined: Jan 2008
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
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Ye Olde Fish Truck strikes again. Been there, done that - now have dozens of master angler bullhead in my dream fishery thanks to infected FHM truck order. Impetuous, budding fishery manager I was - in such a hurry - made many mistakes. Sigh.
If one HAS to opt for truck stocking - for the love of everything sacred and holy - please hand sort and be very familiar with the discernable traits of the species you need to stock. RES or BG in 1-2" range are IMO too small to easily ID and mistakes seem inevitable.
Jwann don't you have a few public waters near you with RES? Go RES fishing [1/32 oz jig and crawler on/near bottom] and stock adults. Be sure to check for any signs of disease - think about a salt water bath first, too. They'll pull a spawn next year and your snail management issues will be addressed.
If you stocked NBG, they are now a permanent species in your fishery. I made the same mistake - with cool water species predators [HSB, SMB, YP, WE] and my nets/traps/angling the only BG population management tools available. As advised by others, my fishery is proof that heavy populations of apex predators will still allow you a HSB/SMB/YP/WE fishery with BG present if you really want one. You need to employ ladder stocking and I recommend supplemental pellet program too. Keep dense shallow structure to a minimum or remove as much as you can if you already placed it. If you can remove some vegetation annually that also helps. These management techniques all help manage BG populations, and once your HSB hit the 24"+ range and SMB 17"+ they can start hammering 4"+ BG and this helps a ton, too.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau ![[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]](http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii582/teehjaeh57/I_subscribe_zps69249d43.gif)
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Know what you are buying and that you can trust the source. I tell them all that I will examine the fish pre stock and if they arn't what I ordered then they take them home without pay.
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The CNBG I stocked in the pond before draining and putting 18 inch clay lining last year are still living today in a livestock pond on my neighbors property. We seined most the fish out before cutting through my dam. I caught a few in it in spring to see if they lived. They looked great. Had the beautiful vertical markings on them. We did not have a super cold winter though. That live stock pond is around 20 foot diameter 10 foot deep at dam. It was new also.
If you ain't gonna fart, why eat the beans?  . RES,HBG,YP,HSB,SMB,CC,and FHM. .seasonal trout.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Northern BG will could have the vertical marks too. Did they have the copper colored forehead?
Last edited by esshup; 09/06/13 07:49 PM.
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I work all weekend but Monday I get off at 1. I will ride my 4 wheeler back to it and snap a few photos to show. What parts of fish should I focus in on for positive Id?I know this small pond iced over for a significant amount of time last winter. I dumped half of that stocking I could seine in that pond and half in my uncles 1 and 1/2 pond. The only reason I saved them was I planing on catching them again and restocking after renovation till I become fascinated with Bruce and sparks HBG. I do remember when I threw them in that livestock pond it was pretty clear. When I went back in spring to try and see if they survived winter and try and catch my 2 pound koi the water was very turbid.
If you ain't gonna fart, why eat the beans? . RES,HBG,YP,HSB,SMB,CC,and FHM. .seasonal trout.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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You could try counting the soft rays on the anal fin. I THINK I remember that coppernose should have 12 rays, while northern strain will have 11.
Coppernose usually have wider vertical stripes than northerns also.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,493 Likes: 266
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Posts: 21,493 Likes: 266 |
There is a large part of an entire thread on iding CNBG if needed.
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TJ says: Ye Olde Fish Truck strikes again. Been there, done that - now have dozens of master angler bullhead in my dream fishery thanks to infected FHM truck order. Impetuous, budding fishery manager I was - in such a hurry - made many mistakes. Sigh.
If one HAS to opt for truck stocking - for the love of everything sacred and holy - please hand sort and be very familiar with the discernable traits of the species you need to stock. RES or BG in 1-2" range are IMO too small to easily ID and mistakes seem inevitable.
Jwann don't you have a few public waters near you with RES? Go RES fishing [1/32 oz jig and crawler on/near bottom] and stock adults. Be sure to check for any signs of disease - think about a salt water bath first, too. They'll pull a spawn next year and your snail management issues will be addressed.
If you stocked NBG, they are now a permanent species in your fishery. I made the same mistake - with cool water species predators [HSB, SMB, YP, WE] and my nets/traps/angling the only BG population management tools available. As advised by others, my fishery is proof that heavy populations of apex predators will still allow you a HSB/SMB/YP/WE fishery with BG present if you really want one. You need to employ ladder stocking and I recommend supplemental pellet program too. Keep dense shallow structure to a minimum or remove as much as you can if you already placed it. If you can remove some vegetation annually that also helps. These management techniques all help manage BG populations, and once your HSB hit the 24"+ range and SMB 17"+ they can start hammering 4"+ BG and this helps a ton, too. That's encouraging to hear TJ. My biggest problem is closest hatchery is 4 hours away. My pond is only a quater acre so delivery isnt really an option. I got lucky on my HSB and YP because Rex picked me some up and brought them back on a trip to Sunil's. I hope to do buisness with him again. Redear do exist in the rivers around me but are rare compared to LES. Has anybody ever tried these to control snails. The creeks and rivers around me are loaded with them and you can catch over a hundred an hour. They are snail eaters but do not get vey big.  http://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/field-guide/longear-sunfish
Last edited by Bill Cody; 09/07/13 01:12 PM. Reason: added TJ to his comment
If you ain't gonna fart, why eat the beans? . RES,HBG,YP,HSB,SMB,CC,and FHM. .seasonal trout.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,798 Likes: 68
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,798 Likes: 68 |
Beautiful sunfish, I have no experience with them. If they don't get large enough for angling interest or table fare, then think long and hard about stocking them. Before doing so be sure you determine their fecundity - if they are multiple spawners you could have an overpopulation of dink BG and dink LES.
I think you have far more important issues to resolve than snail management - namely, how are you planning on managing your BG population? What species are going to make up your fishery? What's in the pond currently? Snails are ubiquitous - you won't necessarily have grub or swimmers itch issues - I don't think snails are your primary concern now. Figuring out how to establish your fishery and stocking plans seem more important.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
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Planned fishery was HBG, CC, HSB and YP. Thats gone. I dislike LMB I guess be cause every pond I have ever fished in was overpopulated with dink ones. I have three choices. Lime now and restock in spring, introduce LMB, or try to figure this out as is and make it work. Really hate to start over seeing how all the trouble I've had last two years. Dug pond. Stocked. Pond leaked. Cut dam and drained. Lined 18 iches with clay. Filled. Restocked. Now one year later all seams lost again. What would be another good predator fish that would not reproduce in pond conditions. I'm going to sit back and listen for a while before making anymore choices and no more Farmcat.com fish trucks! We should make a sticky of my post and say here is what not to do. LoL! Seriously I hope I can get off work to meet you all at Bruce's and figure this out. Could WE or NP live in my pond after I get my aeration set?
Last edited by Jwwann; 09/07/13 06:21 PM.
If you ain't gonna fart, why eat the beans? . RES,HBG,YP,HSB,SMB,CC,and FHM. .seasonal trout.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,692
Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
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Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
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Posts: 6,692 |
These would be pretty cool in an aquarium setting.
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I had them in my aquarium until last month. They get pretty aggressive toward each other in a 40 gallon with 3. I've caught these around half pound max. They do tast good but by the time you clean them you have a slither fillet. The Missouri state record is 11OZ.
Last edited by Jwwann; 09/07/13 07:36 PM.
If you ain't gonna fart, why eat the beans? . RES,HBG,YP,HSB,SMB,CC,and FHM. .seasonal trout.
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Snail update. While out in Nebraska my snails seemed to have disappeared. Do they go deeper in fall or is something taking them out? The shore line was completely covered with them a few weeks ago. Crazy! I lurked the banks today pulling cattails and noticed no snails. In a HBG bed just out of the water I noticed a bunch of floating empty shells. It appears something is sucking them right out of their shells unless they are just dying of old age.
If you ain't gonna fart, why eat the beans? . RES,HBG,YP,HSB,SMB,CC,and FHM. .seasonal trout.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,493 Likes: 266
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,493 Likes: 266 |
Cold water can cause some snails to head for the bottom (slow down).
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,493 Likes: 266
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,493 Likes: 266 |
With a few exceptions, all mammals and birds are warm-blooded, and all reptiles, insects, arachnids, amphibians and fish are cold-blooded.
This is probably the most important fact to keep in mind when thinking about activity and energy use (metabolism). It also effects life span (somewhat)and all bodily functions.
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Joined: Apr 2011
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I guess I don't quite see why snails would be an issue? I feel like multiple BG I've cut open have had snails in their belly. And I do believe YP will eat them as well, but I could be remembering wrong.
I think Pumpkin Seeds would be an option for another snail eater. The get a little bigger than the Missouri Longear.
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I was just wondering if I had some fish eating on them or they moved out of site because of fall. They stay visible in the creeks and rivers around. I'm thinking something is eating them which is a good thing. Not one to be found.
If you ain't gonna fart, why eat the beans? . RES,HBG,YP,HSB,SMB,CC,and FHM. .seasonal trout.
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Joined: May 2012
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I guess I don't quite see why snails would be an issue? I feel like multiple BG I've cut open have had snails in their belly. And I do believe YP will eat them as well, but I could be remembering wrong.
I think Pumpkin Seeds would be an option for another snail eater. The get a little bigger than the Missouri Longear. Snails spread fish parasites.
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I looked again last night and all I'm seeing is floating empty shells. Can young fish somehow suck the bodies out of the shell? I'm leaning toward yes unless I just had a major snail kill.
If you ain't gonna fart, why eat the beans? . RES,HBG,YP,HSB,SMB,CC,and FHM. .seasonal trout.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,533 Likes: 840
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Posts: 28,533 Likes: 840 |
Aliens. The white glowing floater that visited Dwights pond a little while ago swung past your place for a quick snack.
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If you ain't gonna fart, why eat the beans? . RES,HBG,YP,HSB,SMB,CC,and FHM. .seasonal trout.
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Sorry to tell you this, but they drank all your beer, too.
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If you ain't gonna fart, why eat the beans? . RES,HBG,YP,HSB,SMB,CC,and FHM. .seasonal trout.
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