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#34612 - 03/20/05 03:36 PM filamentous algae
bob fulton Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 34
Loc: near houston tx
my pond is 3 years old now. just recently getting filamentous algae. it is located near houston, so the water temps get quite high. the pond is 80 in diameter and depth is 8 to 14 foot. i am currently using a 2 horespower kasco areator that pumps more than 800 gallons a minuite. here in south texas they are popular to make (they call them) lakes with these type of water elements.

i do have some hybrid perch fish in the pond that i feed in the summer months. yesterday i treated the pond with cutrine liquid and used a half gallon for theapplication based on the depth calculation.

the amount to use was based on pie X radius squared for surface area which is 5,024 about a 1/9th acre. i estimate the average depth to be 9 feet as i watched the construction process. this is a very deeep pond, therefore the volumn came out to be about 45,000 cubic feet. noticing you had both warm and cold treatment plans mine should be considered warm. i suspect here in south texas the water temp may go to the mid to high 50 degree range in the winter. however, i believe the water in my pond at the greater depths may be a little cooler at that time of year.

in just one day one the algae looks better already. today i have been searcging the web for cutrine granules. a few questions:

1 how do you know when to use the granules
2 how do you apply it
i can reach the pond center with fish food
by throwing it in
3 how do you calculate how much to use
4 how long does an application last
5 is there a better product to use
6 will this come back this year or next year
7 will it stabilize in a few years and not come
back
8 did i leave out any good questions

thank you

bob fulton

ps to kelly duffie

kelly thank you for taking my call the other day. it was so helphful

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#34613 - 03/20/05 05:19 PM Re: filamentous algae
bob fulton Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 34
Loc: near houston tx
oops! in my investigation i have come across a product to keep algae in check called aquashade. would this help control algae after the algae is under control?

thanks in advance for your help.

bob fulton

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#34614 - 03/21/05 04:47 PM Re: filamentous algae
Meadowlark Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 3075
Loc: East Texas
Bob,

Kelly is a source of great professional advice.

I will offer you a little input in response to your questions based on just my experience.

(1) Use the granules when the algae first start to appear in early spring. Depending on the type, it appears as a blob forming on the pond bottom before it rises to the surface to show its ugly side. The granules work subsurface especially well. Kill the algae before it spreads. (2) Just throw the granules (with hand protection) on the algae. (3) Follow the directions on how much to use. (4) The application only lasts about two weeks or less depending on your nutrient load. (5) Cutrine Plus is the best product I have found…except for Tilapia and that is another totally different story (see my posts on the wonders of Tilapia eating algae). (6) Your algae will come back not only next year but very likely next week unless you address the nutrient load. (7) see (6). Good luck.

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#34615 - 03/22/05 06:36 AM Re: filamentous algae
bob fulton Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 34
Loc: near houston tx
tod,

just read your thread on talapia. how many talapia would it take for my size pond? what would be the cost? i already have had your site on my favorites list and was going to call.

i see that you are near centerville, tx. and have visited your site numerous times. i tried to register but it says access denied.

i could pick up the fish maybe if they will fit in a cooler in the trunk of the car. i live in waller tx. near houston.

after reading your post i see you need to stock these every year in texas and need a license to buy them , is that correct?

thank you very much for your interest in my problem.

bob fulton

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#34616 - 03/22/05 02:07 PM Re: filamentous algae
Dave Davidson Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 1892
Loc: Hurst & Bowie Texas
Bob, Aquashade does appear to help with algae problems by cutting off sunlight. Unfortunately, it also denies the penetration of sunlight that the phytoplankton need. No phytoplankton at the bottom of the food chain means no food chain.

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#34617 - 03/22/05 08:21 PM Re: filamentous algae
Bill Cody Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12299
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
bob - Dave is correct about Aquashade reducing phytoplankton but phytoplankton does still grow in the upper waters of the pond. When using the perscribed label dosage, the plant growth (algae and weeds) is limited to the upper 2 to 3 ft of water. When using Aquashade, generally the darker (bluer) you make the water the more light that gets filtered out and the less plant growth that is produced. Very light doses of Aquashade do proportionally less to suppress plant growth.

PS Bob you will combat algae as long as you own your pond. If algae is not growing in your pond you have major problems. It is just when algae are growing at nuisance proportions is when it is perceived as problematic.
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#34618 - 03/23/05 07:36 AM Re: filamentous algae
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Bob,

I question the use of a 2 hp surface aerator for such a small and deep pond if it is not an intensive aquaculture pond. Seems like a waste of electricity and this aerator, although excellent for what it is made for, won't do much for the deeper water. You're probably not utilizing your deeper water for fish in summer and you're probably not destratifying your pond. I would investigate the use of a bottom diffuser. You could get by with a small enough compressor that you are only adding about $3.00 to $5.00 per month in utility bills, and instead of building up anerobic products in your deeper water that will come up during turnover that will fuel your algae, you will be breaking them down.

However, timing is everything and I think the window of opportunity that far south may be closing to start up a bottom diffuser. But if you do go that route you may be able to pulse it. Hopefully some experts on here will chime in including Bill Cody again.

Wow! 2 hp is a lot of juice for such a small pond! Just my two cents.
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#34619 - 03/23/05 07:44 PM Re: filamentous algae
Bill Cody Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12299
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Cecil - Bob could be using the 2hp Kasco more for looks than for turning over the water column. I'm pretty sure if he performs a temperature profile in mid-July he will realize the surface aerator is not mixing to the bottom.
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#34620 - 03/24/05 08:41 AM Re: filamentous algae
bob fulton Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 34
Loc: near houston tx
bill you are right - the areator is for decrative use primarily. it has lights on it that light up at night that i can see out my master bedroom and living room. however i heard it was good for fish. the fish so far we do not eat and are not to concerned about that as much as kids can play fish in the pond. the subdivions in houston area wanted over $40,000 extra for a lot on a large pond front lot so i decided i could make my own water front lot cheaper this way.

i hate to hear that i will live with this forever so i will need to come up with a yearly plan to keep this in control. let me see if this is a good plan.

1 floating filamentous algae apply cutine liquid as needed. do it if you see floating algae.

2 use cutrine granules as needed - how often is it needed or how do you know when to apply it?

3 apply aquashade to slow algae growth thruout the year. how often is it needed and how often do you apply?

4 stock tapia once a year in the spring march time frame.

i must say this board is the nicest thing to have come accross for good input and i would like to thank pond boss for providing this forum for us novices to get up to speed on pond maintenance.

you guys are great to take the time out of your day to post these educational posts.

thnk you

bob fulton

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#34621 - 03/24/05 04:45 PM Re: filamentous algae
bob fulton Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 34
Loc: near houston tx
ok its been 5 days since my cutrine liquid treatment and i still have some floating algae although it is browner in color. how much more time should it take to work? in addition, should i apply another liquid cutrine treatment? if i do another treatment should i use the same formula - a half a gallon for th pond. i calculate the pond to have 5,024 square feet and is 8 to 10 feet deep. that comes out to 40,000 to 50,000 cubic feet. according to the label i thought that came out to be a 1/2 gallon sprayed into the pond.

since i treated i have run the aireator 24/7 would that hurt the treatment?

thanks.

bob fulton

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#34622 - 03/24/05 08:29 PM Re: filamentous algae
Bill Cody Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12299
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
If you are pro chemical and the pond is for swimming and occassional fishing then here are my recomendations

1. Curtine granular is for algae when it is in early growth phase attached to the bottom. Granules sink and release chemical in the bottom zone. Use a light broadcast application in the area where you can see fuzzy growth on the bottom.

2. Cutrine liquid is for floating mat algae and planktonic suspended algae. Spray over surface of the algae mats or pond surface. Liquid form takes about 10 days to 2 wks to see full affects of treatment.

3. If you have floating mats of algae first remove as much as possible with a 1/4" mesh net then treat what remains. Killing lots of algae while it is still in the pond, causes it to die, sink to the bottom and then decaying algae releases nutrients to feed the next batch of algae.

4. Aquashade - Once you get the pond the proper shade of blue, see below, (approx 1 part per million) and since your pond is small (1/9th ac), add about 1/3 cup (2 - 3 ounces) Aquashade every month. This will keep your pond the proper intensity of blue and suppress algae growth in water deeper than 3 ft. Then you basically have algae only in a narrow upper band around the edge where you can apply Curtine.

5. If you use tilapia you may not need Curtine no Aquashade or only light applications of Aquashade for a very light blue tint in the water. Try the Tilapia first. I think tilapia will be more environmentally friendly than Curtine for algae control.

6. Your Cubic feet calc is too high for your pond. Your pond is not a box 8 -10 ft deep; pond has sloping sides. For your small pond use 4.5 ft as average depth, 5025x4.5= 22,600cuft x 7.4 gal = approx 167,300 gal. So about 21 ounces of Aquashade will produce 1ppm Aquashade. First add 10 ounces. After 24-48 hrs examine the color. It may be too blue for your preference. Add portions of ramaining 11 ounces for your blue preference. However if you do not add the additional 11 ounces you will not get the full affects of Aquashade at the 1ppm concentration. Once you get it as blue as you want it add the 2 to 3 oz per month to maintain the blue intensity because over time it will fade, chemically deteriorate, evaporate and dilute with rains.

7. Aeration should not deter Cutrine treatment.
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#34623 - 03/25/05 09:29 AM Re: filamentous algae
Meadowlark Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 3075
Loc: East Texas
Bill,

I'm glad to see someone besides me recommend Tilapia for algae control. You would not believe the number of people who have told me that Tilapia do not eat algae...even when I can see them eat it and see the results.

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#34624 - 03/25/05 02:11 PM Re: filamentous algae
Cary Martin Offline
Ambassador <br /> Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Mooresville, NC
Todd,

I believe in Tilapia as an additional algae control tool. We have used them in the past and they did an excellent job.

I just spoke with a Golf Course up here in NC that uses them during the summer just for that reason. Obviously they die off during winter, but the cost of a restocking is no object versus the angry members that have to look at a algae pit while on the course.
_________________________
Cary Martin
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4/martincv123/fishfight.gif[/IMG]

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#34625 - 03/25/05 02:18 PM Re: filamentous algae
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
We're not allowed to use them here in Indiana even though they would obviously croak in the fall. Something about the fact that they could survive in our warwater discharge lakes but I still find that hard to believe.

This makes no sense to me.
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#34626 - 03/28/05 02:00 PM Re: filamentous algae
bob fulton Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 34
Loc: near houston tx
for use of cutrine liquid i was afraid to use to much on this application. here is what i did, i use 1/2 gallon of cutrine. i figured cubic feet as follows:

40 foot radius squared times 3.14 equals 5024 square feet. the depth is really closer to 8 foot average but say it is maybe 7 feet average equal 7 times 5025 or 35000 cubic feet or about .8 acrea feet.

according to the label on cutrine it says 2.4 gallons per cubic acre. or 2.4 time .8 acrefeet equals about 2 gallons for a total algae kill.

somehow my math failed me whn i calculated my first application and i only used a 1/2 gallon.

i still have just a couple of floaters near shore. should i spot treat that? or should i treat the whole pond?

bill thanks for correcting me on my calculations but i know my pond is very deep with steep sides except for where we had to go in with the dozer. i still believe it is 7 feet average depth.

i will implement your suggestions now.

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#34627 - 03/28/05 07:40 PM Re: filamentous algae
Ted Lea FOREVERGREEN Offline
Lunker

Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 969
Loc: NA
Bob, Consider just spot treatment as Cutrine is a good product but it is still copper based. You will no doubt need to treat the entire pond again in 6-8 weeks anyhow.A very small bottom diffused aerator might be in order. Look at something like a PA10W at Stoney Creek or Aquatic Eco Systems will have something this small also. You could get 600-700 GPM turn easily with a 1/20 HP motor 1 AMP (.7 CFM)I would however try to get a 9-10 inch rubber membrane diffuser vs the standard airstone. Ballpark price $300.00 with 50 ft weighted tubing.Good Luck PS This would push your bottom water instead of pulling your water thus more effective, This would also give your electric meter a rest from the 2 HP Kasco Just my 2 cents Ted

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#34628 - 03/29/05 08:13 AM Re: filamentous algae
bob fulton Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 34
Loc: near houston tx
ted my daughter was born in sidney ohio and i in toledo nice to hear from a buckeye transplanted near houston.

ted how does this help filamentous algae - i tried the eco system web site and being a true novice at this could not understand anything there.

i am now quite sorry i ever put in this pond which is just used as a decoration in my backyard. i had no idea that it would be this much trouble to understand how to control this algae problem.

my plan is now to try to control it with cutrine liquid, after under control use qutrine granules in between for around the edges of the pond. so far thats where my algae problem seems to be mostly around the edges of the pond. and if that fails use aquashade to shade the sunlight along with the cutrine.

if that fails next year i will try talpia in early april here in texas we have really long summers and a peak of cool in dec and jan normally only 15 nights below 32 degrees the whole year.

thanks

bob fulton

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#34629 - 03/29/05 08:27 AM Re: filamentous algae
bob fulton Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 34
Loc: near houston tx
oh yes i forgot to say i heard that talapia will die in december time frame and will float along the shoreline. i mentioned this solution to my wife last night and she did not want dead fish in december around the edges of the pond. that means i would have to clean them up with a net , then discard in the woods - ugh what a thought.

she is not so far willing to look at dad fish around the pond at that time of year. so maybe if she sees algae around the pond in the summer she will change her mind about tapalpia next year.

there is a fellow nearby in east texas that sells talapia who gave me this information. he is very knowledgeable about this subject and swears by talapia. it really sounds like the most eco friendly way to go. the other posts on this thread supports his thoughts on talapia.

bob fulton

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#34630 - 03/29/05 09:25 AM Re: filamentous algae
bob fulton Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 34
Loc: near houston tx
well i forgot another subject my wife brought up to explore last night (sometimes shes a pain in the ?).

aquashade colors the pond blue. i have seen blue ponds here in texas and my wife thinks they look phony. she likes the green natural look. perhaps the pond we saw that was blue the owner calculated the size impropery and put to much in.
do they make a shading that is more natural looking than the blue?

also the pond areator which is a 2 horsepower submersiable that sprays about 18 feet in the air is currently running about 7 hours a day. does an areator like this help algae or hurt algae from an estetic stantpoint?

you thoughts are certainly appreciated.

bob fulton

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#34631 - 03/31/05 09:55 AM Re: filamentous algae
Meadowlark Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 3075
Loc: East Texas
"oh yes i forgot to say i heard that talapia will die in december time frame and will float along the shoreline. i mentioned this solution to my wife last night and she did not want dead fish in december around the edges of the pond"

That was the biggest negative I heard before I stocked Tilapia. Todd Overton told me not to worry about it, if I had predators in my pond. He was absolutely correct. In ponds with LMB and HSB there were virtually no dead Tilapia along the shoreline. In a pond without any predators, the shoreline was lined with small dead Tilapia....but even that wasn't the problem that many had said. Nature provides a clean up crew and within a few days they were all gone. Not to worry.

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#34632 - 03/31/05 07:53 PM Re: filamentous algae
andrew davis Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/18/03
Posts: 185
Loc: Carolina's
Cats, foxes, raccoons, vultures would be quite glad of the treat of an easy crop of fish in the Winter months, here

Alas the fish here are koi, they are usually cosey deep down in their hidey holes waiting patiently for Summer...

Regards, andy
http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html

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#34633 - 04/01/05 09:18 AM Re: filamentous algae
Meadowlark Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 3075
Loc: East Texas
andrew davis,

How about an American Bald Eagle....no kidding we had one come to the pond to eat the dead Tilapia. Absolutely beautiful sight. There are several that over-winter in nearby Lake Livingston and I guess one of them got "wind" of the Tilapia bonanza. When the Tilapia were gone, so was the Bald Eagle.

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#34634 - 04/03/05 11:42 AM Re: filamentous algae
JRJohnson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 2
Loc: Ok
OK, I am convinced the Tilapia is the answer, BUT I can't find any in Oklahoma. I checked and there is no restriction against using them for algae control. However there isn't anyone registeredto sell them here. Any suggestions??
The algae is about to take over my pond.

This is a great site and I have learned a lot since discovering it.

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#34635 - 04/04/05 09:11 PM Re: filamentous algae
LoopTech Offline
Lunker

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 99
Loc: East Texas
OK, I am convinced the Tilapia is the answer, BUT I can't find any in Oklahoma. I checked and there is no restriction against using them for algae control. However there isn't anyone registeredto sell them here. Any suggestions??
The algae is about to take over my pond.

I also need help finding Tilapia in East Texas.. Nacogdoches Area.. Thanks

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#34636 - 04/04/05 10:38 PM Re: filamentous algae
ilovefishingmark Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 271
Loc: mtn. home, arkansas
fulton, i don't think you need to calculate so much. if you see the stuff floating, in your size pond, on the edges, when it starts... get a 2 gallon pump sprayer. put a gallon of cutrine plus, then a gallon of water. then just cover the green stuff until blue! just a light coating. wait 2 days, it will start turning brown. then hit the rest again. i bought one of those 12 gallon sprayers, attached it to my 4 wheeler (or you can put it in a wheelborrow and use a 12 volt battery) and i put 2 gallons of cp, then about 8 gallons of water....this covers quite a bit. the key though is getting it early. now, my calculations aren't precise, but this stuff isn't like a fine chemistry set. just turn the green stuff blue...then it will turn brown, die, and drop. your pond won't blow up, and your fish won't grow 2 heads. have fun with your pond, and put the calculator down..your gonna kill somebody with that thing or your gonna go blind...wait, that was something else parents used to say! ha

new math: how to calculate how big you should build a pond? how much money you got? how much land and water ya got? thats what really matters. actually, what really matters, is...how much money will your wife let you spend??!!!

how big of a dam? just not too small.

how much cutrine plus? turn the green stuff blue

i added grass carp to mine. a bunch, i want the hungry fellers to eat the stuff up. then when they get big, i can bow fish them, and thought i'd invite some PETA folks over for a visit.

good luck

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