Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Greetings from Richmond Mills!!!

We fried them up in the best way. But, I'm sure they'd even be good when fried up in the worst way!

Al's big LMB picture please!
Dave's fish as well - that would be news - I don't think I have EVER seen a picture posted on PB forum by DD1 - and I know he catches big fish!

He and Al are both very modest guys, not into self promotion, but I know for a fact that they both catch big fish.
George

I wonder if Richmond Mills/Lusk will get HSB in there.

We discussed this on the ride back to the airport Sunday. Bruce seems to think it's unlikely due to the competition it would create. With already limited natural forage, the HSB would directly compete with the largemouth and spook the bluegill off the pellets. They would no doubt flourish in there with the abundance of feed though.

Do I recall a previous post of largest RM LMB at 8lbs?
A 5 lb HSB will outfight an 8lb LMB any day in the week, if RM goal is sport fishing.
HSB are put and take fish (or released to fight another day) - what I have learned from this thread RM are "catch, photo and release" fish that someday will have to be restocked and start over, unless an annual LMB "stocking ladder" is implemented.

I have never observed HSB spooking CNBG off their feed - a feeding frenzy of both!
G/

It would be interesting to put in a few HSB just as a bonus fish.

The BOW is approx. 140 acres....maybe put in 100 advanced sized HSB, and let it be a super surprise for someone to hook into one.

Then again, RM is not 'broken,' so maybe the shouldn't 'fix' it!

I'm curious as to how you guys would classify the fishery at RM? For trophy BG, for Trophy LMB, or balanced? .... ( I know, its FANTASTIC. but I'm curious about how it would be looked at management wise)

With the size BG you guys have shown, I have never seen bigger so consistently , so that makes it trophy BG to me. The LMB are big, but it seems like I have seen reports in the past of some ponds producing bigger.

I am not sure HSB would do well in RM... It has a low pH and I am betting the alkalinity is next to nil. No way to lime it because of the extreme flow through. HSB thrive in hard water conditions, not soft water like RM has. There is a reason CP and fliers are doing so well in it. They love those water conditions.

I am working on a PB article on exactly that. Stay tuned.

Eric rules!

Bob did comment that the lake had a heavy population of suckers IIRC. They are the biggest % of fish by weight.

EWEST posted his comments to the same questions, while I was composing my rambling thoughts below. Please take mine in stride. I defer to my good friend Eric's thoughts and comments.

After the time we spent there, with experienced guides, I don't think I can reasonably answer your very valid first paragraph.

As Bob said, the lake is an "enigma." It is totally unlike anything I've fished in my 60+ years of fishing many days a year over that time. In North America, I've fished from Manitoba and Ontario to Maine's Bay of Fundy, to the Gulf Coast, both freshwater and saltwater. I've fished the west coast. I've also fished crazy places like the lagoons of Midway Island, and the bridges of downtown Stockholm, Sweden.

This was very different. I'm not sure this is fair, but it was like being in part of an Alfred Hitchcock or Steven King scene -- except we felt no fear. It was peaceful and serene. It was incredibly beautiful. The entire scene was fun.

To catch a fish, you nearly had to bonk it on the head with a bait or lure. The fish were basically very lazy, and wouldn't chase a bait -- not even an inch. But, once you got that fish on your line -- watch out! If I recall properly, I had two bluegill and one bass break the line on appropriately sized lines/rods, with the drag set properly.

Interestingly, I believe that nearly every fish I pulled in was "lip hooked." Fishing my ponds and public waters for big BG usually results in 10-20% that are deep hooked, gill hooked, or hooked outside of the mouth. The hooks we were using were no different than I normally use. The baits weren't that much different. I think it may have been because of the lethargy of the well-fed fish.

I would agree that it is a trophy BG lake. I caught my "personal best" BG more than once, even though I have some pretty healthy BG in my ponds.

I may have caught my "personal best" LMB. I've never been much of an LMB fisherman. I was mostly fishing for BG, but the guide set me up with with a few rods with braided line and bass baits. I wasn't there to fish for LMB, and I've never really kept track of the largest LMB I've caught.

Whatever it was, my "personal best" probably came out of the brackish waters of Back Bay, on the VA/NC border, just south of Virginia Beach, VA. Back in the late 70s and early 80s, we could easily boat over a hundred very big LMB in Back Bay in a morning or afternoon, many over 5 lbs. We just dragged them in, marveled over them while we unhooked them, and sent them back into the heavy weeds. Unfortunately, that fishery has been destroyed.

I fished for LMB, on and off over two days at RM when the BG weren't cooperating. I caught a few in the 1 lb. category, but also some really impressive fish. I don't even know what my largest was. Somewhere between 3-5 lbs? Still, very impressive. The Wr on the 1-pounders was probably right around 1.0. Yet, the Wr on all the bigger bass was very high. We believe we caught native bass, feed-trained bass, and bass that were born in the lake from various types of parents. They all looked a little different.

From a management perspective (and I'm no expert), I believe it would take more than two days on the lake with a team like we had, to determine what is going on. Two days of fishing, with Pond Boss type people, would probably be needed in early spring, late spring or early summer, mid-summer, late summer, autumn, and late-fall/early-winter to know what is really going on.

I believe that shocking, during any season of the year, would only tell part of the story. There are enough deep areas and inaccessible areas, that shocking would only be a partial story.

Anyway, those are my crazy opinions and observations.

Ken

I'm wondering about long-term. I've always thought that a balanced fishery can be somewhat self-sustaining, with a tweak here, and an adjustment there occasionally. But an unbalanced, CPR driven BOW? Will it run its course, (fish wise) and then start a gradual decline, without an aggressive, hands-on stocking program, like those of us with put and take ponds are used to dealing with?

Tony,

I believe those are the same concerns and questions that Bob Lusk is struggling with. For him, they are on a much larger land-use and monetary scale than you and I are dealing with as mostly very serious hobbyists.

Ken

Eric, I should have asked before, but where is that water coming from?
I'm not familiar with the geology of that area but very curious about the rocks.
Karst topography?
G/

Ok... Will look forward to that. I will assume that questions/answers that pertains to the article and this thread might be discussed after it's published.

Will the article include the history of management that got RM to this point? I hope so, and if not, I hope there will be a "go to" reference in it for just that. Perhaps you guys have already delved into this years ago and I just haven't heard about till now. Don't mean to re-hash something if it's been done before.

Yolk Sac was present when Luskie was describing the water source. He seemingly absorbed more that I, and went further to comment about the lack of limestone filtering, I think.

Perhaps he'll weigh in.

Water source is 3 creeks that drain into the basin which holds the lake, which are in turn fed from runoff, and some springs that are fed by runoff, from many square miles of what is basically pine forest growing in extremely sandy soil-not hard to see where all the tannins come from!! There is minimal to no limestone in the drainage basin, mostly just deep layers of relatively coarse silica covered by a thin layer of soil and deep pine compost. The soil does a fine job of filtering particulates-but offers basically nothing to buffer the tannic acid coming from the pines.

Sunil really perked up while we were talking about filtering, but as soon as he realized we were discussng "limestone filtering" instead of "cold filtering" his attention seemed to wander.

That part of the United States is awesome. Look up Lake Waccamaw, which is a natural lake that is rather large not too far from there. There are actually two species of fish endemic to it. The Waccamaw silverside and the Waccamaw darter. My mother-in-law lives in that part of NC. Some very interesting ecology. For those of you in the Midwest who are familiar with fox squirrels that are orange/black in color, the ones in that area are insane! Some of jet black with white eye patches, others are silver with black eye patches and a few are other strange colorations. Just a neat part of the country.

What kind of suckers? Lake chubsuckers?

If they are the ones Bruce had pictures of, they are spotted suckers. My guess is, they make up the back bone of the forage base in RM. They are a smaller species of sucker, rarely getting over 15". YOY reach about 2-4". Perfect size for being preyed on by most sizes of predators.

Here you go guys. Enjoy !

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Might add it is a tannic acid swamp with pines and hardwoods. Has high water flow and no limestone. A coastal/lowland type swamp.

Article will cover the human element and observations on the trip and RM.

Good lookin' Fliers......