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Over the next week or so i will take you through several iterations of aquaponics designs that i built. Due to moving every couple of years I was able to redesign and rebuild my system several times over. I'll talk about the pluses and minuses of each system and eventually we will end up with my current system and the very large future system that I am currently building.

Unfortunately for this topic, some of these old pictures focused more on the plant growth than the fish. Like most people new to aquaonics, I started with tilapia because everyone seems to reference tilapia in aquaponics. And in fact they are great for a lot of reasons. They are very hardy, disease resistant, fast growers, tolerant of crowding, tolerant of poor water conditions and omnivore (will eat anything). A little known fact is that tilapia also have a fair amount of resistance to low levels of chlorine. Unfortunately their main weakness is temperature and they do not survive year round in an outdoor aquaponics system in north texas. Of all of the conditions mentioned, temperature is by far the most difficult and expensive to control.

My first system was indoor in an apartment. I do not recommend this to anyone. I had 100 gallon fish tank and plumbing sometimes leaks and failures do happen, heh. Also, it was difficult to keep the humidity down and mildew started to become a problem towards the end.

System 1, (small) indoor aquaponics.


It is when you start paying for 1kw/hr power and you are still barely providing enough light for plant growth that you start to truly awe at the magnificent power of the sun.


Mozambique tilapia. I thought i needed sand in the bottom of the tank to get them to build nests and reproduce but this was wrong. Not only will they breed on a plastic/rubber bottom (prolifically) substrate in the fish tank is a nono for aquaponics and RAS in general. It's a place for where solids could get trapped and breakdown aenarobically. Aenarobic zones would cause methane which is toxic to plants and fish. The chicken wire was necessary to keep jumpers from reverse drowning. Jumping seemed to mostly be related to aggression and territory. Lets just say there was not enough territory to go around. Jumping could also happen if water conditions get very poor.


Closer look at basil. There is parsly and cilantro on the far left and far right. They each have an infection of aphids. Spider mites... which are very difficult to deal with indoors and in a way that is safe for both food plants and fish.


Major plant nutrients are Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium. (NPK). Aquaponics is high in Nitrates (N) which is primarily absorbed during vegetative (green) growth and "P" and "K" are absorbed more in flowering or fruiting phases.


My lights are very blue spectrum running 16 hour days. Room temp is usually from 75-80 which simulate moderate june days. This is great for vegetative growth and jalapeno peppers flourished. (I did have to manually pollinate the blooms to get peppers to make using a very soft bristled makeup brush i got form cvs.) My roma tomato plants grew long and lanky and never bloomed. People do grow tomatoes in aquaponics even with the relatively low P-K. Some use addatives, some just limit the amount of P-K intense plants in the system. I think my primary problem was a poor choice of tomato variety for my environment and secondly a lack of orange spectrum (fall) light to trigger blooming.


Summary,
This was the last time i tried an indoor system (excluding a garage tilapia wintering system that i will cover in a later post). I do not recommend it. Costs of lights alone are prohibitive for indoor growth. You have to be prepared to change light duration and spectrum to provide "seasonal" conditions for some types of plants to flourish. Green non-blooming plants like herbs, lettuces and cabbages do very well.

Brian

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bcotton, WOW! thats amazing!!! That is one great system. Just looking at the plumbing (pvc) work is awesome. How do you even move around in there? Looks like a pretty tight area.

Great pictures also.....

One question... A friend told me he uses lava rock in his aquaponic system instead of the clay "marbles" (because its a lot cheaper). Have you ever tried the lava rock?

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hang_loose,

I have never tried lava rock but people who's opinion i trust say it works fine. There is some lava rock to not use. IIRC the "red" stuff will dissolve into clay over time but the "black" stuff is ok. Also stay away from slag and anything made from metals, obviously. Lava rock is good in that is is relatively cheap, porous and light. Negatives would be the sharp edges which prohibit working in the media with your hands. Its usually a larger media so it's difficult to sow seed directly in the bed and it's difficult to move plants around without damaging the roots. I often sow a lot of seeds in a small area and then space them out when they start getting bigger.

In that indoor system i was using the very expensive expanded clay "hydroton" because i did not know any better. It's porous, light and PH nuetral. Hydroton is relatively large. If you are lazy like me and sow seeds directly into the grow beds you will have a low sprout rate... roughly 20% in my experience. But the main negative is cost because it is very expensive. ~$30-35 per 50L

You will see in future systems where i change to expanded shale which is ~$60 per CY in the dallas area. Expanded shale is probably cheaper than even lava rock in most cases. It's kilned like expanded clay and "popcorns" into a less dense porous rock but it is a little heavier/denser than expanded clay but much lighter than river rock. While they could theortically make expanded shale in any diameter, I have only seen it in smaller "pea sized " diameter. This small diameter can cause it to be susceptible to clogging where fish solids enter the grow bed and are unable to seep into the grow bed to get broken down. It just kind of builds up and puddles on the top.

Supposedly expanded shale is ph nuetral but in my experience it is not. (maybe it's because shale layers are next to limestone layers in the ground and there is leaching? i dont really know). The expanded shale i have worked with buffers my systam at about 7.8 PH. The 7.8 PH is considered "too high" for plants and very good fish but in practice I find it works fine for both if you are mindful to do things to keep micro nutrient levels like iron at good levels.


The smaller diameter has a positive aspect in that I am able to sow seeds directly into the media and get a good (~80%+) sprout rate.


The non-nuetral PH also has a positive aspect because it buffers the system at a specific ph and never budges. The PH of most aquaponic systems go down slowly over time because the nitrification process (process where bacteria break down ammonia [produced by fish] into nitrite and then nitrate.) I also catch rain water [which usually in the low 6's of PH], but my system's PH never changes.



brian

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Neat, really neat


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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Fantastic. Thanks for starting this thread.


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Bcotton, thank you for sharing! Perfect timing as I am in the process of gathering parts to set up my first aquaponics system in my outdoor sunroom. So far I have my 300 gallon "Rubbermaid" water tank and 3 24x36x8 grow pots.At this point I plan on using the "raft" system or a mix of raft and media based. As for fish I am still undecided but am thinking Blue Talapia or HSB.

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Rick,

You need surface area/filtration for the bacteria to break down the ammonia. If you are not using media in your grow beds, you will need some sort of filter. There are many options, but i have no experience with filters and wouldnt know what to recommend.

Doing some media and some raft grow beds is a fine option and works well. However, your fish capacity is going to be based on how much filtration you have. The water is just the blood in the vessels of the system. Either way, you want your fish tank -> filtration -> then Deep water culture (fancy name for rafts). If tilapia/fry make it into your rafts they will eat the roots and kill your plants.

You may be able to grow blue talapia to plate size in one season, but if not, you will need a plan for the wintering because they are mortal below water temperatures ~45 degrees. Blue and nile tilapia require a permit to poses in Texas. I am only able to work with mozambique which [theoretically] die at 55 degrees. I will post a system a day. the 5th system is my current one and you will see that i still use some tilapia but i have moved 95% to native fish that I can leave outdoors year round. Tilapia can filter feed and help control algae/moss, but I try to discourage people from using them in non tropical zones in outdoor aquaponics systems. There's really no good reason to not use native fish that you can stock year round.

Your bacteria are a living part of your aquaponics ecosystem. If you harvest, move or lose all of your fish during the winter the food for the bacteria will stop and all of the bacteria will die. The next summer you are going to have to start over from square 1 and re-"cycle" your system.

Another viable stocking plan that may interest you is to buy a little larger than fingerling tilapia, growing them for 6 summer months then do a full harvest and replacing them with trout for the 6 colder months. It is kind of a temperate crop rotation. You will need to start with larger fish which are a little more expensive but depending on your goals it may be a more desirable option for you.

I actually have some HSB in my current system. You will need to be more concerned about good water quality and high disolved oxygen but they should be able to take the temperature swings. They are a really neat fish. They seem very smart and they have never stop swimming (as far as i can tell). They swim in a pack/sphere that reminds me of the dog fights in movie top gun. They move as a unit around the tank. I cant seem to get them to eat pellets at the surface while i am standing there but if i walk across the patio and come back... all of the pellets are gone. These are new fingerlings that i have only had for a couple of week, so i have not gone a full year with 100 degree summers and some freezes to say for certain how they will do year round. However, i expect them to be fine.

If my blue gill ever spawn, I will move them back outside and move the fry to a grow out tank. Then i will bring 3 or 4 HSB into my 100g living room aquarium so I can watch and learn their behavior better.


brian








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That is very cool stuff. Just awesome!

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Tomatoes need a 'nighttime' temperature below 70 degrees to bloom. We had a similar problem in our garden last summer.

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I love this stuff!! I like seeing the plant end of the aquaponics since all I know well is the fish side, having supplied 1000's with seed stock of Blue Tilapia.



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ok, ready for next system, year 2?

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Awesome
Looking forward to more info

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Brian, Thanks again for your help. This is all new to me but I am really fired up about getting started. I received my copy of Sylvia Bernsteins' Aquaponic Gardening from Amazon today and will no doubt get lost in it later tonight.I like your idea about rotating trout into the system over the Winter.I do have a couple of ponds here on the property that will somehow factor in with regards to fish/fishing. HSB seem to good to be true! I am looking for some but there aren't any sources close by. Got me thinking about setting up a small indoor pond system in my shop to raise some. I could stock my own ponds and provide some to others who may be interested in HSB in the local area! Plus I here they are delicious!

Rick

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Originally Posted By: Rick Elrod
As for fish I am still undecided but am thinking Blue Talapia or HSB.


Hey Rick,

Legally using tilapia in Virginia is a little bit of a hassle. Technically, you have to fill out two forms, pay $10, and be inspected before you can raise the tilapia. The inspection is to ensure that there is no possible way that your tilapia can escape into the wild. Here is one of several good websites with information: Tilapia Farming at Home -- Legal Issues. I believe you will be able to legally do it, but probably not this season.

There is also don't ask, don't tell -- if you find a source of tilapia who will sell to you.

I know I'm really sounding like Debbie Downer, but I think you may run into different issues with HSB. From my experience, they are rather finicky, and are especially susceptible to less than perfect water. I'm not sure how well they would do if your DO drops during some hot weather, or your ammonia gets just a little out of range. However, if you should decide to grow out some HSB, I'll be one of the first people at your door to get some for my ponds each season. Our area just doesn't have a consistent and reasonable supplier of HSB -- yet, there are a lot of us who really want them.

I started populating our IBC tank system yesterday with "sacrificial" fish and a few plants. I put in about a dozen fatheads and four 3-4 inch bluegill. They are the "canaries in the coalmine." When they can make it, or their replacements can make it, then I'll add a number of hybrid bluegill. The tank holds 275 gallons of water, so I'll start this season with 25-30 HBG after we have completed the first "cycle." That is probably a few weeks off. That should represents about 1 lb., of fish per 10 gallons of water by the end of the growing season.

Using the creek water probably helped start the system, but it will still take a while. I did put in a shovel full of fresh chicken manure before we started the system. After running the system without fish or plants for 36 hours, the pH was right at 7.0. However, because of our cold weather, the water was only at 58 degrees. The ammonia level was barely perceptible. Nitrites and nitrates were undetectable.

I put in three tomato plants, two pepper plants, and I sprinkled in some black-seeded Simpson lettuce seeds. In a day or two, I'll add some liquid seaweed to help the plants, and hopefully not hurt the fish. I may add some cucumber and squash plants at that time, depending on how the other plants look.

Tomorrow and Thursday are supposed to be up in the 90s. The tank is wrapped in black plastic, so the sun should warm it pretty well in the next couple of days. The weekend is supposed to be pretty warm too. So, we'll see what transforms.

Keep us informed.


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Rick, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but HSB are also illegal in VA. They are treated pretty much the same way tilapia are...

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bcotton, are you adding any other bacteria (as in powdered and what kind) to your hydro system? And how long do you let the bacteria "set up"? I know bacteria can live a long time even on dried gravel.

Great set up you have!!!

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I really appreciate what you are doing, great pictures and information.


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jludwig,
That is a good point and is probably a major contributing factor if not the primary factor to the tomatoes not blooming.


hang_loose ,
no I don’t add anything to start the bacteria. Trace amounts of the bacteria exists everywhere. Once food (ammonia, and then nitrites) show up, the bacteria feed and reproduce. if i have an existing system and i am starting a new one, i will seed the new system with some established substrate. It does quicken the cycle time but is not necessary.

The following is a rambling diatribe on microbiology by someone who has no qualifications to speak on microbiology,
Bacteria are suspended in the water but in order to grow dense colonies capable of supporting dense fish, they need surface area… i.e. substrate. There’s actually two types of bacteria that are required. One type breaks down ammonia -> nitrites and the other breaks down nitrites -> nitrates. The ammonia will peak several days before the nitrites peak. This period of high ammonia and nitrites while the bacteria establish is what we refer to as a “cycle”.
Random thoughts,
1) Ammonia is produced by the gills when the fish breathe.
2) Ammonia spikes when the fish are fed. feed lighly while cycling is taking place.
3) Ammonia is toxic to fish at very low concentrations. The easiest way to “treat” high ammonia is to lower the amount of ammonia in the system. At .5-1ppm I stop feeding the fish. Between 1-2ppm I continue to not feed the fish and I do ~40% water changes to bring down below 1.
4) Nitrites are toxic to fish at very low concentrations. Nitrites inhibits the fish’s ability to move oxygen in their blood. It’s is/causes “brown blood disease”. PPM can be lowered with water changes. Salting the water to bring salinity to 3ppt can also help treat the fish's condition.
5) Nitrates are toxic to fish in very high concentrations. Fortunately, plants absorb nitrates as food. If you have high nitrates, add more plants.
6) Because the bacteria and plants maintain water quality , no water discharge is necessary.
7) Water needs to be added periodically to make up for water lost through evaporation and transpiration (plant sweat)
8) In a typical week I lose 5-10%. On hot 100+ degree months like july and august I lose 15%-20% water per week.

I'm working on the next system update, now.


Brian

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System 2, Outdoors in north texas.

The apartment design is the simplest of designs. A pump in the fish tank pumping to the grow beds which drained back into the fish tank.


The major draw back to this design is that if your plumbing fails, your fish tank can go empty.

A minor draw back to this design is that the water fluctuates in the fish tank. Some people say that this is unhealthy or stresses the fish but I have seen no practical evidence to support that claim [as long as the fish tank never gets too low or goes empty.] I often use my sumps as a nursery tank for sick or weakend fish and for fry grow out. I have noticed no significant effects of the water level changes in growth, health or behavior.

It is not really a design flaw, but the grow trays are only 6 inches deep and i wanted deeper grow beds to support taller plants. Six inch grow trays worked find for greens and herbs but tall plants like peppers and tomatoes want to fall over because there's not enough base support.


This second design is at a rental house and I am working with a space that i cannot modify so the space affected the system design considerably.


To protect against plumbing failure, the main difference in design is the addition of the sump tank. This is a modified CHOP (constant height one pump) design or some refer to as a CHIFT/PIST (constant hieght in fish tank/pump in sump).

To move my system/fish without deaths, I bought a new 300 gallon fish tank which I filled with water at the new property. I treated the ~300 gallons tap water water with 3000mg of aesorbic acid(vitamin C) to destroy the chloramines and let it sit with an aerator overnight. I was then able to move the tilapia in 5 gallon buckets to the new tank. Then over the next couple of days I moved the rest of the system



The fish tank stays constant height and overflows into the sump. The pump is in the sump and pumps to all of the grow beds which drain back into the fish tank.





I am looking ahead to north texas winters and I realize that I will not be able to keep the tilapia through a second winter(first was in the apt). So in anticipation. A few weeks after i got moved, I took a trip to buffalo tx to get 36 channel cats and 24 bluegill fingerlings. I have plenty of filtration for this fish load right now, but as the fish grow I am going to need more filtration so i get started building some larger 4'x8'x9,5" grow beds using wood and pond liner.


An architectural abomination, i am embarassed to post this.



Each new grow bed is built for ~100$ which is probably one third of what i paid for the hydroponic grow trays I used before The wood beds covers about the same square footage but due to increase depth provide more filtration (cubic feet).

Each new grow bed is about 150gallons or .75 CY. I priced hydroton for this volume and it came out to roughly 1400$. I decided to buy 1.5 Cy of expanded shale which cost a hair over $100. No brainer, right? I've already talked about pluses and minuses of expanded shale in a previous update. I should also note that smaller diameter also means more surface area for bacteria, which is another minor positive. I chose expanded shale over pea gravel and river rock primarily because it is lighter.





I moved to this house in march, The growth was decimated by insect and caterpillars in april and into may. Then in mid-late may predator insects and birds found the smorgasbord and the plants were recovered by mid june when these pictures were taken. My romain lettuce were slighly out of season and bolted but everything was looking healthy and green. The tomato plants are wide/full plants and producing some small tomatoes. The pepper plants were still growing/establishing and I think you can see some squash plants in one of the pictures going nuts.


Brian

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Brian, I'm loving this thread! Thanks for posting failures along with the successes. This is very interesting stuff.


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Would fatheads, in lieu of other fish, give you enough fertilizer? Those things don't worry much about finicky water.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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FireIsHot,
Thanks

Dave Davidson1,
Theoretically yes. I have never run a system only off of minnows but I have started systems with minnows and recommend that approach. I dont see why not.


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Brian, this is really neat. Is there anyway that you could do this and make money or is it just a good hobby.


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Brian, very interesting. I'm trying something (very small scale) using solar. It doesn't pump full time, but has worked before.


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BC- Thanks for all the details and pic's of your project. Keep it coming sir! This thread has been very educational and please keep posting your failures (aka learned lessons) as well as the successes.

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This makes me want to try this even more. Since I may not get a garden in this year anyway it may push me more to try this.

What is the blue stuff you are caulking in the wood frame?

Thanks

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Originally Posted By: kenc
Brian, this is really neat. Is there anyway that you could do this and make money or is it just a good hobby.


Ken C,

For a number of years I have been loosely associated with, and volunteer at, a WVU research farm that includes a large aquaponics operation. At most times, there are about 30,000 trout in raceways supplied with water from a large spring. The water goes through a large aquaponic greenhouse and a large aquaponic high tunnel before going through filters and a settling pond that is filled with rafts. This is not a recirculating system.

I haven't been involved much in the last year, but I'd say the jury is still out on whether it can be profitable and practical, on a commercial scale, in this part of the US -- especially in places like VA and WV.

IMHO, a lot more research and development is required. Just one of many issues in large scale harvesting of edible vegetables includes e-coli in the water. It contact be allowed to contact the edible food without extensive cleansing measures.

Again IMHO, for small scale and home use it is great for people without adequate gardening facilities. Planting density is greatly increased over conventional gardening. Thus, someone with just a balcony can grow a pretty fair amount of vegetables with a system that takes up about 16 square feet. Those same vegetables would take up several hundred square feet in conventional earth gardening.

Especially in areas of the world where water is scarce, the recirculating systems are very valuable. In this country, it is practical for niche markets. My wife's family is friends with people in New York state who raise tilapia and vegetables for their high-end restaurant using aquaponics.

I believe it is an ever-increasingly more efficient method of raising food. Thirty to forty years ago, hydroponics was in its infancy, and niche markets made it successful. Aquaponics is that next major step, but with even better quality food.

Now, it is time for me to go plant my sweet potatoes, bird egg beans, squash, and cucumbers in the conventional organic garden. (This is kind of related to aquaponics -- I use a 2-inch semi-trash pump to pull irrigation water from one of my ponds for this 100' x 50' garden.)

Ken G.

P.S. -- Again, a thanks to Brian for starting this thread. It will help bring information to a lot of people on the fish side, in contrast to the aquaponics forums that primarily provide great info on the system and veggie side. I personally really appreciate what he has been posting.





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kenc,
I read your question and didnt initially reply while i compiled how i wanted to answer it. Ken has already hit some of my points but i am going ahead with my response as i planned it.

I have no experience with commercial aquaponics but my personal OPINION is that you would need higher food costs or a niche market to be economical viable...

Lots of people are already trying to make millions of dollars off of aquaponics. As best as i can tell, all of them require alternative methods of income weather that be from investors, the government/grants, or by teaching people how to do what they are doing.

With that said. Aquaponics is a new technology, that is still in it's infancy. It provides potential for growing a lot food in a relatively small footprint and demand for food increases as this planet's population approaches 8 trillion. Much of the information about aquaponics is from shoot from the hip, learn from mistakes, wild west aquaponics cowboys like myself. With only a couple of exceptions, educational institutions are just now starting to work with aquaponics as a technology and develop it in a more scientific way. Keep in mind that if we still farmed corn the same way we did 100 years ago, our nations food base would not be economically viable, either.


rmedgar,
theirs lots of ways to skin the cat, so to speak

mnfish,
thanks

MRHELLO ,
The blue stuff is insulating foam, styrofoam. The idea was to separate the pond liner from the screws to avoid any kind of deterioartion or leaks down the road and also serve as a bit of insulation. I am not sure if it worked on either account, but that grow bed is over 2 years old, was moved and is still in use today (not by me)



catmandoo,
word.

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" ...... as this planet's population approaches 8 trillion".

it sure seems that way when I'm at the drive-thru at Mickey Ds smile ...


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System 2.5

While putting together this next system information I realized that when talking about my first two systems I left out a very important detail.

My pumps were running on a timer. On 30 mins, off 30 mins. This was intended to make the grow beds flood and then drain (ebb and flow). Plant roots need oxygen and this helps aerate the grow bed. I tinkered with different time intervals and i cannot say one is better than the other. A constantly flooded grow bed is also an option as long as you 1) keep your dissolved oxygen (DO) up AND 2) don't have anaerobic zones.

I dont recommend pumps on timers but if someone wants to do it that way, it is a valid design and it works. If you asked me what intervals i recommended i would just say to try and make sure your fish tank volume turns over at least once an hour.


I was using cheap submersible magnetic drive pumps and they were failing every year or so. After researching online the general consensus seemed to be that the motor is stressed more during startup than if it ran constantly. (credit: travis huey). So i wanted to redesign my system to run constant on and no longer stop/start pumps to improve pump longevity. My experience since has confirmed


Over time, the inside of the vinyl tubing would gum up with solid matter and negatively affect the water flow to the grow beds. I dont know if/how much this affects pump parts but I decided that I wanted to move the pumps to where the fish tank water goes through some filtration before it gets to them.


So i redesigned my system for the fish tank to overflow into the grow beds (made of barrel halves), the barrel halves drain into the sump. Due to my space restrictions i had to use two different pumps, one to pump back into the fish tank and one to pump into the outer wood growbeds. Not ideal for power efficiency, but it worked.

The barrel halves had working bell siphons that allowed them to flood and drain even with constant water input. I couldnt get bell siphons to work consistently on the wood beds so they worked as constant flood.




This is the middle of august. Some cold weather plants and the squash have died. The peppers and tomatoes have stopped growing and are drooopy but they lived and came back strong in september. I planted some cucumber seeds in the barrel halves to see how they would do.


Ghost peppers. I didnt know any better but the green are not yet ripe. I didnt have the gonads to taste them but my coworkers said the red ones were great! I also got a few lb's of jalapeno peppers and a few dozen small roma tomatoes. They were almost as small as cherry tomatoes, not sure if that was due to low P-K or just a bad choice of tomatoes for texas climate. I'm going to try some types that figure to do better in texas in the future. I also ended up getting a couple of harvests of cucumbers before a hail storm pummeled the plants in october.



Cauliflower picture taken in December. The picture doesnt do it justice, The head is over a foot in diameter! And the plant is closing in on 5'... massive.

I also got some brussel's sprouts from the other grow bed. I never got a good broccoli harvest, though.

brian

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Since my last update was not really a full new system, i'll give a little bit of bonus footage.

I did a lot of work with tilapia breeeding during this same time.

The tilapia were breeding in my stock tank but there was no fry cover to protect them and they would usually get eaten by bluegill or other tilapia almost immediately after leaving their mother's mouth.

Occasionally, i would see a few fry swimming at the surface near the side of the tank and i would be able to net out 10 or 12 and put them in an indoor aquarium to grow out.

During breading season the largest/dominant male's head turns red and they stake out their territory at the bottom of the tank. I put a lot of PVC pieces in my tank to segregate it and I ended up with 3 males that were able to make a nest/territory.

The rest of the tilpaia males and females just try to stay out of the way. You will have 3 males taking up 295 gallons and two dozen other fish taking up 5.

I moved 1 male and 3 females into an indoor 55 gallon tank(top). You can see some of the fingerlings i was able to save from the outside tank in the early days of spring. (bottom)


The male is very big for a 55 gallon tank. He thinks the whole tank is his territory and he constantly harasses the 3 females to get away. The largest female was ready before the others so her and the male teamed up to bully the other two. Overnight they shreaded the side fins of the second female and pecked at her until she no longer bothered to defend herself or run away. I removed the smallest female back to the outside tank and i moved the second bullied female to an isolation tank but she died a few days later.

When i came home from work that evening the male and female were finishing up. The female would lay a few eggs in the nest. The male would swim by and do his thing. The female would pick the eggs up into her mouth and lay a few more, rinse, repeat. Once they were done, the male changed and was very aggressive to the female and she was unable to get away. So i moved the male back into the outside tank and left the female there alone.


10 days later i came home to a few hundred fry and a proud momma tilapia. The female has not eaten in 10 days and while she shouldnt eat the fry immediately, eventually her motherly instincts wear off and her survival instincts come back, so i moved her outside and left the fry in the tank alone to grow.

Notice I was circulating water between the tanks with a pump and an overflow, but i had to stop this because the tiny fry were slipping through the overflow into the bottom tank where they became fingerling snacks.



Conclusion. I felt like my 55 gallon tank was too small to breed in. So I moved on to try another method which i will talk about below. However, i have since found out that a 55 gallon tank can be use you just need 5 or 6 females. They will school together for protection and the male tends to be less aggressive and damaging than when he can corner and isolate just one or two. The work required to move fish around in different stages was also a deterring factor. The risk of injuring the fish through handling is also worth considering.



Credit: The following technique was gleaned by reading "badflash"'s posts on the diy aquaponics forum. Not exactly his design but I wouldnt have gotten here without reading his work and information.

I stopped trying to move breeders into my internal tank and just started watching the fish in my outdoor tank. When a female has a brood she will isolate herself. her jaw starts to get bigger and she will not open her mouth. In later stages of brooding, her color changes to dark black vertical stripes that are easy to pick out.

I would net the brooding mother and drop her in a half filed 5 gallon bucket. She is usually scared and will either spit out the eggs, swallow them or (in most cases) a little of both. Once she's in the 5 gallon bucket i pick her with my hands, open her mouth to rinse the rest of the eggs out and then i set her free.




I then incubated the egg's in DIY egg tumblers powered by air stones. (This is my first tumbler design, it's improved some since) The weaknesses of this design is that the air stone is not secured [if something moves the air hose or the tumbler you could send all of the eggs into the aquarium to their eventual deaths] and the base is not stable, it wants to move/float.




A closer look. The very new eggs are white. As they get older, they will start to turn brown-orange. Then a couple of dots shows up in the brown that will eventually be eyes. Shortly thereafter a tail sticks out of the egg. The last stage looks like a tiny fish with a big ball on his belly which will get absorbed over the last couple of days.

If the eggs are still white after 3 days they are unfertilized or dead. They will start growing mold/funguses or be food for the fry that do hatch.





It's a blurry picture because the camera doesnt know what to focus on but you can see a school of fry in the middle (they came from the left tumbler). On the right side, you can see that those eggs were a a day or two behind because those fry still have egg sacks on their bellies.


Tilapia typically breed every 4-6 weeks. I found that if you strip the eggs from the mother early she doesnt seem to use all of her stored energy and she will reproduce again in closer to 2 weeks time. I think one case it was as quickly as 7 days.

brian

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This is all very encouraging and is giving me a boost to plant veggies in my floating island/raft. The raft is filled with potting soil about 4 inches deep and draws constant water from the pond with wicking ropes in the bottom, but just the holes w/o ropes may wick by themselves. It grew Petunias really well last year in my vegetated pond, which produces oxygenated water and is stocked with minnows, tadpoles and bluegill that fertilize the water. I can see no reason to fertilize the soil and just plant.

I can see bull frogs and bluegill being a food source by-product protein part of the system, and the frogs and bluegills keeping bugs fattening them while helping to keep the produce somewhat free of bugs. Last year once the island was planted there was no other work involved and expense free. My dog Dollie probably has taken enough bullfrogs out of the pond to fill my freezer and the bluegills I see look fat. It does seem too simple doesn't it.

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John,

I completely expect vegetables to work well in your island. I am pretty sure this is similar to what the aztecs used to make the "floating gardens" near what is today mexico city.

Wicking is something I see a lot of people adding to their aquaponics systems these days. I have not yet worked with the strategy, personally.

I have thought about trying to attract bugs to my system for extra fish food. Something that was recently talked about on one of the aquaponics forums i read was talking about shining a light on the top of your fish tank at dusk. I am considering trying it in my next system.


brian

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Very good information. I have Tilapia and plan to do a small aquaphonics system. Thanks.

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bcotton:

I don't know if it would be cost effective, or if your plumbing is set up in a way that it would work, but you might be able to find selenoid operated valves that you could hook up to a timer. Leave the pump running all the time, an open/close valves going to different beds to make the ebb and flow instead of turning the pump on and off. You could probably get away with using a smaller pump that way too.

While I am not doing any aquaponics, I find your thread very informative. I am reading and learning! Thanks.


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Brian,

The tilapia breeding information is invaluable.

I really want to get some tilapia, but nobody in WV has them, and they are not legal in VA. If anybody knows of a source in WV, VA, western MD, or Southern PA, please let me know. If I ever get some, the breeding info will really help.

Ken


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This relates to catmandoos post

It was my understanding that fish do not carry e- coli

The pathogen must be introduced from an outside source (dirty humans )
Just like soil based agriculture

Anyone?

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True.

In non-recirculating systems, the water can easily be contaminated before it gets to the raceways. Usually it is contaminated from cattle or other agricultural sources.


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I should specify that i have only worked with mozambique tilapia. I expect the breading to be similar with all species but the colors probably wont be.


john kelsey,
word.

esshup,
an interesting idea. Bell siphons work, but are fickle. I am going to test hose siphone soon to see if i can build it more reliable. I'd prefer as few electrical or moving parts as possible.


catmandoo,
if it's legal in your locale and you dont mind paying ~$100 for overnight shipping there's sources that will mail you tilapia fry. I tend to think it's silly to pay $100 to ship $20 in fish but if they live and you are able to bread them it's a once per 4-5 year cost. I figure I pay half that in gas driving to overton's and It doesnt kill half of your day.

brian

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System 4

In late october it started to get too cold for tilapia outdoors. I harvested all of the fish from the apartment system. They ranged from 1.25-1.75 lbs. I have only about 100 tilpaia left from all the fry I spawned. I chose some due to fast growth, some due to color and some randomly. The others were usually grown to minnow size and released into my main system as "a treat".



The next system is an garage system designed only to keep my tilapia alive over the winter. It's not designed to run permanently or year round. I did water changes with my outdoor system every couple of weeks to keep nitrates down.

I didnt use any insulation because I knew this would only be a one winter thing and then I would be moving, again. I was able to make the winter without any deaths using 1kw of aquarium heating elements. It wasnt enough heat to maintain 70 degrees but it would keep the water "high enough". I didnt run the heaters constantly, only when it started to get too cold.


Hind sight it would have been nice if i had a day to day chart of the water temperatures but I did not do that.

In texas, most winter days are around 60 degrees. We get cold fronts that come through and freeze but they usually only last a few days. The water temperature did get into the mid 40's at least once, but for no longer than a 24 hour period. Since mozambique tilapia are supposed to be be mortal at 55 degrees, i thought this was interesting information and worth sharing.




a compact system, The fish tank overflows into two 55 gallon barrels which are full of expanded shale. The "filters" emptied out of the bottom and gravity pushes the water into the 55 gallon barrel sump. A pump lifts the water from the sump in to the "grow bed" which has no substrate and only grows duckweed under a $10 T8 shop light w/ 1 "daylight" and 1 "sunlight" bulb to provide spectrum. The "grow bed" overflowed back into the tank.

I am keeping 3-4 dozen 3-6" tilapia in the IBC tote and countless smaller 0-2" fingerlings in the sump tank.





red wigglers (placed intentionally) and snails (not so intentionally) helped break down solids and uneaten food particles.



Drain out the bottom to try to avoid anaerobic zones.



sump with 600 gph ecoplus. It probably only got 300 gph at the 4 ft head height.




Tilapia do eat duckweed but in this case i am not growing it to feed. I remove the duckweed whenever I can to remove nitrates from the system. You may see chunks of pvc in the "growbed" and those are for hides, i started experimenting with raising marbled crayfish (Marmorkrebs) with the intention to try them as a supplemental fish food source.

Often new people to aquaponics believe they can grow a bunch of duckweed and not need to buy fish food. Duckweed is high in omega-3 and high in protein. It is a good supplement. But keep in mind that the actual plant is 98% water so it take a LOT of duckweed to GROW a fish. I believe it may be possible to go off commercial feed with a diverse food strategy that includes duckweed but never with duckweed alone. I have seen people say on forums that too much duckweed makes the tilapia taste like duckweed. I cannot confirm/deny that statement and have no plans to try.

brian








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I did plant cabbages yesterday on the island. I sprinkled Preem on the medium to stifle any weeds. Last year I didn't do this because I had new planting medium. I didn't fertilize because I want the pond water to be the complete nutrient supplier in a plant and forget operation. I am also going to plant one cabbage on the island in pond muck and see how that works.



I mentioned that frogs might be a natural bug eliminator on the produce without the use of chemicals. While I was planting the island in my chest waders I looked down and this frog was looking at me two feet away so this seems more then a possibility. I had the camera so I got the picture. If this works out as I envision then the next food growing island would be full sized 4x8 feet Styrofoam sheets, maybe 2 inches thick, a 2 x 2 inch rim around the outside edge to hold in the growing medium and aluminum corner trim glued on the outside edge to eliminate turtle damage. No ropes for wicking but ½ inch holes spaced every 6 inches for wicking through the medium itself.



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the marmokrebs should do well for your..
i've got several hundred at the moment, and they handle a good range of temps.. mine haven't been above 80, but from what i've read, they can handle it..
from my first "hatch" i left several in multiple glass tanks, and have been feeding a dozen or two to the pool every week or so
i've put close to 40 larger ones into the pool, several of those were berried..it took a while to get to that point, but now it's pretty steady..
i use sponge filters in all my glass tanks so the baby marms don't get sucked into a filter
i'm really thinking hard about getting some gsh this weekend, feed all my rosy reds to the pool, and use the single tote for the gsh..

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John,
Looks great man

Keith,
Word, i used to follow your basement thread on DIY and still do on backyard. I think we started working with marbles about the same time, but mine havent done very well because they dont always have a tank to themselves (small goldfish and minnows will eat baby marbs, who knew?) and i killed a few when i moved. I do have a big one like you do. She's massive, I will try to get a pic when i get to my current system.


Marbles are omnivore and eat most green things. I typically feed them algae waffers but they will also eat plant roots which makes them a terrible choice for DWC (raft systems). They also seem to be decent at snail control.



brian

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Thanks for sharing, bcotton.

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Yeah, Thanks Brian!

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Bcotton,

I hope you don't mind but I posed this same question to Keith in his thread to get as much information and viewpoints as possible.

Finally assembling an aquaponics system outside next to a raised garden. I've built four recirculating systems now with good success so I've got the fish part down pat. I will also be using a moving bed bioreator I kept in standby mode by adding ammonia after selling the fish that went with the system.


What method do you prefer to determine plant surface area output vs. fish pounds or amount of fish feed fed daily in raft culture? UVI says about 7.1 ratio of surface area of plants to fish tank surface area. Another text I have is more specific and says 60 grams of feed per day per square meter of the raft for nonfruiting plants to 100 grams per day of fish feed fed for one square meter of the raft for fruiting plants. Seems to be quite a difference.

My raft is about 3 square meters. (4'X 8') and 1' deep with a divider in the middle. Flow goes to the end on one side of the divider and cuts over and comes back where it dumps back into the fish tank via gravity. Preceding that is an upflow clarifer tank and an outside standpipe that removes suspended and settleable solids respectfully. Before flow drops into the raft it's treated with the moving bed bioreactor (mbbr).

Circular fish tank is 5.16 feet in diameter and has surface are of 20.90 ft2. Water volume is 286.1 gallons.

Just now assembling outside. Probably going with 3 to 5 inch tilapia only because these fish -- for a change -- will be for the table.

Thoughts? I'm new to aquaponics but I'm excited! Probably going with lettuce and tomatoes.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 06/09/13 04:07 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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BCotton, I truly enjoy your posts! I see you mentioned "badflash" from DIY aquaponics and caution you to carefully dissect his "advice". When I was a member on that forum, I challenged most of his theories as being simply wrong with relation to tilapia, as did many others, and hope he has stopped giving out his very bad advice.

Before my volume of fingerling sales got too large for me to handle at home, I stopped harvesting eggs and harvested only after they hatched, increasing survival by 90%. Now, brood stock is in a 5 acre pond fed by 80 degree water at 500gpm and all natural...fry by the millions are there whenever needed.



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Cecil, I will offer you what I am told by many customers....A 7.5:1 ratio of plants to fish has worked reliably. Start you seedlings/fingerlings at the same time. Stock your grow tank/beds with the intended harvest weights in mind and not the starting weights (for example, if harvesting fish at 1# and a stocking density of 1# per gallon water, stock 100 fingerlings {similar ratios for plants times 7.5 of fish harvest weight}) Your "node" will grow in sync and several "nodes" are required for constant harvesting. Fish reproduction should be avoided in your "grow-out" tanks.

As to the "amount" to feed the fish (and the species), this will always be determined by weight of fish at every stage of growth if you want to be that precise. In practice, you feed the fish all they can eat, without overfeeding, for rapid growth and plants will increase growth rates to compensate for the "extra" available nutrient...it seems to balance out well and can easily be tweaked for individual and changing goals.

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Thanks Rex that's pretty much my thinking -- just wanted to see what bcotton's take was on it.

Hope to preclude reproduction by having all males.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Got this info from Glynn Barber of Redke, Indiana that builds and designs aquaponics systems and grows aquaponic plants for a living along with redclaws. Thought I'd pass it on. Thanks Glynn!

Regarding raft culture (DWC)

.25-.5 lbs. tilapia per gallon of water in fish tank equals 3/4 sq ft plants per pound.

3-11 lbs. leafy veggies per pound of fish.

12-25lbs fruiting plants per pound of fish.

Tomatoes 20-25 lbs because they are mostly water.


Some good reading on the subject:

http://www.aquaponic.com.au/Fish%20t...t%20ratios.pdf



Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 06/11/13 03:19 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Cecil,

You are probably going to get a similar answer from keith because we tend to share the same philosophies.

Warning, aquaponics is addicting. You will start with a 300 gallon system and once it's built you will think of a half dozen things you can do to improve it... expand it... and once you apply your improvements/expansion, rinse repeat.


Like most things "it depends". Rainman pretty much has the consensus down which is kind of the base line i would recommend to anyone for their first go. The one lb of fish per 1 square foot of media (~7.5gallons) rule of thumb is also a little bit subjective because what media are you using? One cubic foot of 3" river rock has a lot less surface area for bacteria than the same volume of pea gravel. Once your system is mature you can start to increase your fish load to see when water quality starts to suffer. (if highest fish load is your goal)

Your link doesnt seem to work because of some weird characters, but I have tinkered with that Wilson Lennard's spreadsheet and it seems to be based off of the UVI research and more accurate than any rule of thumb i know. At a glance there is something wrong with your calculations because fruiting plants take way more nutrients than leafy plants and there's now way you can grow more tomatoes per lb of fish than cabbage. Not without additives anyway. Remember that Aquaponics is nitrate rich (vegetative/green nutrients) and a lot less on the Potassium and Phosphorous department (flowering/fruiting nutrients) which tomatoes will require a lot of.


I dont use additional filtration or settling tanks in my systems so I try to keep a modest fish load. I allow for the solids to break down in my grow beds (with help from red wiggler worms) which adds micro-nutrients to the system through mineralization. The only additive i use is a tablespoon of cheleated iron every few months. Sometimes i bury chicken eggs shells in the grow beds to recycle the calcium but i dont believe i "need" to. I get calcium and magnesium in my tap water.


Personally, I dont start all of my fish at the same time. Right now i have 4 fish tanks all running in one system. I am mindful to keep fish of the same size in each tank but i can stagger production and harvest times.

There's no need to worry about reproduction in a 300 gallon tank. unless you "rescue" the eggs or the fry they will not be able to escape predation. .




Rainman,
I read a lot of badflash's information and other sources I dont remember what tilapia information i have taken from his threads but the mention was only for credit the egg tumbler idea because that is where i got the idea to build mine. Any information in the thread is based on information from multiple sources cross referenced with my limited but very successful experience with raising tilapia.

I agree, that if the mother is allowed to brood the fry to full term, I typically gain more fry. However, this means moving all of the other fish out of the breeding tank because fry do not live very long in a 55 gallon tank with a full grown male and 4 females. I think getting less eggs early has most to do with the mother swallowing eggs in her panic while being handled. Of the eggs that make it to the tumbler, I have good hatch rates... Above 90%. Personally, i only try to save a couple dozen fry each year so if i get part of one brood i am set.

Yesterday, 6/11/2013, I was moving a couple of tilapia from my main tank to the HSB tank for algae control and accidentally caught a brooding mother in my net. I wasnt expecting the brood so i had the wrong net and no nursery tank prepared. Still I was able to collect about 50 "sac" fry and my tilapia breeding for this year is now complete!

A follow up note. The eggs also seem to be stronger than the swimming fry. I have killed a few hundred fry because the mom was spitting the fry out in the net and then crushed them with her flopping around. The eggs dont seem to crush as easily.


I owe you guys pictures of my "current" system. These are pictures from october 2012 of the START of a very big system but I have decided to go a different route. Once i get my first ferrocement tank and grow beds built these IBC's will be relocated to the garage for breeding tanks/wintering system. I think ibc's are an eyesore and i think i can make the system much more aesthetically pleasing with ferrocement.


IBC's on cinder blocks, I am sure there is a white trash joke in here somewhere. The three "higher" ibc's overflow into the grow beds which drain to the two lower ibc's


Wood grow beds with pond liner. It's tough to see but the 2 IBC;'s on the ground are connected via 2" pvc. I am only using one pump.


Expanded shale media, A 4" media guard around the bell siphon that i have not yet gotten to work exactly right. I am just using a stem pipe and the grow beds are constantly flooded.

I'll try to take some current pictures later today and show some of the plant growth. Or a video may work better?

brian







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Addictive is an understatement. Neat setup.

Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 06/12/13 06:23 AM.

It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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sorry about all the pauses i wasnt really prepared, just walking around and talking. I made some mistakes.

clarifications:
1) I keep saying poor water quality but i just mean poor visibility. The water quality is fine.
2) I keep referring to algae in the tank and while there is some algae it was mostly moss.
2) I mention the "small" ibcs and the "big" ibcs.. They are the same size. The "big" ones are just raised up.
3) i dont think my system is overstocked, but i do think it could feed plants in 6 to 8 grow beds. Once the fish are fully grown i would probably have a capacity issue.


Something i didnt mention but meant to. The water temp was 92 degrees yesterday which was roughly ambient temperature. Past systems were shaded and even during two month long 100-110 degree heat waves it never made it to the high 90's. So i am working on shading the ibc's with shade cloth to see if i can bring the water temps down.





direct lnk so you can full screen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhF1e-Nreps&feature=youtu.be

brian

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Originally Posted By: bcotton
Cecil,

You are probably going to get a similar answer from keith because we tend to share the same philosophies.

Warning, aquaponics is addicting. You will start with a 300 gallon system and once it's built you will think of a half dozen things you can do to improve it... expand it... and once you apply your improvements/expansion, rinse repeat.


Like most things "it depends". Rainman pretty much has the consensus down which is kind of the base line i would recommend to anyone for their first go. The one lb of fish per 1 square foot of media (~7.5gallons) rule of thumb is also a little bit subjective because what media are you using? One cubic foot of 3" river rock has a lot less surface area for bacteria than the same volume of pea gravel. Once your system is mature you can start to increase your fish load to see when water quality starts to suffer. (if highest fish load is your goal)

Your link doesnt seem to work because of some weird characters, but I have tinkered with that Wilson Lennard's spreadsheet and it seems to be based off of the UVI research and more accurate than any rule of thumb i know. At a glance there is something wrong with your calculations because fruiting plants take way more nutrients than leafy plants and there's now way you can grow more tomatoes per lb of fish than cabbage. Not without additives anyway. Remember that Aquaponics is nitrate rich (vegetative/green nutrients) and a lot less on the Potassium and Phosphorous department (flowering/fruiting nutrients) which tomatoes will require a lot of.


I dont use additional filtration or settling tanks in my systems so I try to keep a modest fish load. I allow for the solids to break down in my grow beds (with help from red wiggler worms) which adds micro-nutrients to the system through mineralization. The only additive i use is a tablespoon of cheleated iron every few months. Sometimes i bury chicken eggs shells in the grow beds to recycle the calcium but i dont believe i "need" to. I get calcium and magnesium in my tap water.



Brian,

Thanks.

What do you consider a modest fish load? I'll be eventually going up to about .50 lbs. of fish per gallon as I do some serious mechanical filtration along with 4 cubic feed of mb3 media for biofiltration after mechanical filtration in an mbbr filter, which has enough surface area for about 200 lbs. of fish.

Could the tomato calculations seem off due to Glynn's heavy fish load of 0.50 lb.s of fish per gallon of water? Glynn also does not do any water changes and he uses redclaws to clean things up somewhat in the raft tanks. His redclaws actually take residence in the roots of his plants.


Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 06/12/13 10:59 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Cecil,

I consider a modest fish load to be roughly less than or equal to 1 lb of fish per 6 gallons of *media*. The problem is. When i am running so many different species and ages it's difficult to really know my fish load at any given time. Maybe i can develop some ways to track my fish and vegetables better once my main projects are complete.

With your mechanical filtration do you have to backwash and discharge water to clean the filters?

I hesitate to speak on raft type systems because I dont practice that technique. It's a very viable technique and is generally considered the best practice for commercial scale aquaponics. It's also what UVI did all of it's scientific research on so it's more mature than my media based grow beds as far as technology. I do know that many commercial scale aquaponics companies try to raise only the minimum amount of fish required to grow the plants. The general idea is to try to break even on the fish and profit on the produce sales. Obviously i have no idea how viable that is as a practice, but rafts dont supply a lot of surface area.

I would like to work with redclaws but i havent the space set aside or the supplier. My marble crays eat plants and are prolific eaters of roots so i would never use them in a raft system.

Far be-it for me to say someone cannot do something, but i dont see how someone could grow more tomatoes than salad given the same inputs. It's a zero sum game.

brian

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BCotton, I am curious about why you use the tumbler. Why don't you just take the female out of the brood tank and put her in a tank by herself?

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If i net her she will spit out or swallow all of her eggs. I have had people report if you dump all the eggs into the same isolation tank with her she will pick them back up once she calms down but that has not been the case the few times i tried it that way. Your results may vary.


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Originally Posted By: bcotton
Cecil,


With your mechanical filtration do you have to backwash and discharge water to clean the filters?




Brian,

Thanks for the info.

I don't backwash. My filter (clarifier) consists of 55 gallon drum packed with deer fence netting cut into sections and two filter pads on top of that. Water comes into the bottom of this via u-tube 2 inch PVC siphon. A small mag drive pump sits on top of this and pulls the water up through the filter material. The pump then directs the clarified water to another 55 gallon drum which is my biofilter (moving bed bioreactor (mbbr) or a rotating biocontact filter (rbc) in a tank, both homemade.

Cleaning the clarifier is relatively easy. I pull off a pvc extension and temporarily cap the siphon in the clarifier tank. I then open a valve on a hose connected to the bottom of the clarifier tank. The water in the clarifier tank drains out and goes to a raised garden. Once it's drained I pull the pads and filter material out and spray them off with a garden hose, holding them in the tank to allow the debris to stay in the tank and place the cleaned material temporarily into a clean garbage can. Then scour the bottom of the now empty tank and drain.

Next the clarifier tank is filled with fresh water and once the water level rises to the end of the siphon tube, the u-tube siphon is uncapped and and the extension is fitted back on. Filter material is packed back into the tank and pump placed back on top, and it's ready to go. It sounds like a lot of work but it isn't. I've been told this simple filter removes particles down to 60 microns.

This accomplishes removal of suspended solids and a water change at the same time. A totally external stand pipe connects to the center drain. It's kept empty until a gate valve is pulled, whic causes water to violently gets pulled into it and up is my settleable solids filter. It pulls any debris around and in the center drain in the circular fish tank. That water and solids is also directed to the raised garden. Only uses about 2 gallons per purge and I usually do that twice a day.

The clarifier filter works so well it will filter out fine precipitated iron from well water (when I first fill the system) to make the water gin clear. In fact, I use the same principal to make my own separate iron filter, with two drums side by side if I have fry and need to remove the iron in a strictly RAS system. Of course I will welcome the iron in the aquaonics system.


Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 06/15/13 06:29 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Brian,

BTW I've decided to plant 20 lbs. of mostly male 3 to 5 inch tilapia in the system, which at about 100 gms/meter of surface area of feed per day, at 1.75 % of fish mass feeding rate means I can plant about 1/2 of my DWC tank for now. I figure it won't take long for them to double in size and I'll be able to plant the entire surface area of about 3 square meters. I can also easily add more surface area if need be.

Unfortunately picking up the fish yesterday did not work out due to some issues with my hauling tank system.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 06/15/13 06:16 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Cecil,

Since you are doing raft system with filtration. You may find this UVI research paper a good read.

http://ag.arizona.edu/azaqua/ista/ista6/ista6web/pdf/676.pdf

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Brian, You mentioned of something to the fact that the tilapia were 1.25-1.75#. What was the period of time it took for that, one summer?

Also, you mentioned shipping and buying tilapia once every 4-5 years. Why is that? Is it the time frame that you guess something might go wrong and the tilapia might have a die-off?

Thanks so much for your time, --Jim.

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Originally Posted By: bcotton
Cecil,

Since you are doing raft system with filtration. You may find this UVI research paper a good read.

http://ag.arizona.edu/azaqua/ista/ista6/ista6web/pdf/676.pdf

brian


Thanks for the info Brian.

Basil and herbs are what I would be most interested in, along with hot peppers.

Any idea on how well Dill works in an Aquaponic system? Fresh dill is quite expensive up here. A couple years ago I estimated, based on what the local stores were retailing at about 38 bucks per pound.

I have had really good results with Dill, Sweet Basil and Peppers in raised beds.

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the 1.25-1.75 lb tilapia were between 1.5 and 2 years of growth. I think better growth rate is achievable. these werent optimal conditions and i often stressed them out with being a newb causing them to not eat for a few days. Also consider mossies are the slowest growing of the tilapias

My 4-5 years estimate is just that is about how long I would expect a tilapia to be a good breeder. I am assuming you either add new tilapia to your breeding gene pool or start over with new breeders.

dill does great, it's in the category of vegetative nitrate type plants. I grew some in my first indoor system, honestly,it was too vigorous, invasive for my small space and i had to take it all out. Have had great success with both basil and peppers as well. Very hot and tasty. I had so many i was giving them out to coworkers and one of them pulled me aside and told me that next time i had extra to just bring them to him and he would PAY ME.


brian

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Originally Posted By: bcotton
Cecil,

Since you are doing raft system with filtration. You may find this UVI research paper a good read.

http://ag.arizona.edu/azaqua/ista/ista6/ista6web/pdf/676.pdf

brian


Brian,

Thanks I've been doing a lot of reading on UVI. There's a full chapter on it in one of my Aquaculture books written by Dr. Rackocy (sp?) and I've seen a presentation on it.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 06/16/13 09:47 PM.

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bcotton,

Isn't it a misnomer to say the fish poo is growing your plants? Isn't it more likely the ammonia primarily given off by the gills and the subsequent nitrates as a result of the nitrification cycle? Also the various minerals that are made available via mineralization? I mean after all we try and remove the solids don't we and they can actually be harmful to the plant roots.

Not trying to be nitpicky. Just asking.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Yes, it's the ammonia, but i liked this title better than "Growing plants with fish respiration."

You are trying to remove the solids because you have a raft system and the solids can accumulate on the roots and "suffocate" the plant. I dont remove any solids in my backyard system. I let them break down i my grow beds and let the system reuse the micronutrients. The solids accumulate in the substrate and not so much on the roots. I also have red wiggler worms in my grow beds that help break things down faster.


Theoretically you could put substrate grow beds between your fish tank and rafts and do the same thing.


brian

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Originally Posted By: bcotton
Yes, it's the ammonia, but i liked this title better than "Growing plants with fish respiration."

You are trying to remove the solids because you have a raft system and the solids can accumulate on the roots and "suffocate" the plant. I dont remove any solids in my backyard system. I let them break down i my grow beds and let the system reuse the micronutrients. The solids accumulate in the substrate and not so much on the roots. I also have red wiggler worms in my grow beds that help break things down faster.


Theoretically you could put substrate grow beds between your fish tank and rafts and do the same thing.


brian




Got it!


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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I had a loss today. I wish i had done a closer picture.

This is an LMB that appears to have choked on a small redear sunfish. One month ago the LMB and redear were all about the same size, (2-2.5" long).

This was one of my largest/fastest growing LMb but there are others of comparable size. I lost a couple more redear recently that were not eaten but seemed to have trauma/bruising on their bellies. I am going to have to drain this tank and separate the red ears from the LMB asap to keep from losing more feed trained redear and hopefully stop losing LMB?

overall the LMB growth rate seems every bit as fast as any tilapia if not more vigorous.



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Tomorrow I hope to post a couple of pictures of my eight cabbages growing on my pond raft for three weeks now. The potting mix is not fertilized for six of the plants while one is planted in pond muck and the last on one is fertilized with time-released granules. I thought the unfertilized cabbages would do well by utilizing the pond water which is full of life that would produce nitrates, etc, but those plants are terrible with the muck planted cabbage being the worst. The fertilized cabbage is huge compared to the other. I have no idea why the pond water didn't fertilize the other plants. I checked the plants for any bug damage and didn't see any. Many times one or two frogs will be setting of the raft so they may be keeping the plants bug free.


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The nutrient density in the pond may not be very high and that could be contributing to slow growth.

My cucumber plant grows about a foot every day, it's putting weeds to shame.

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Do you have pictures of your filter, I would like to see it.

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Originally Posted By: bcotton
The nutrient density in the pond may not be very high and that could be contributing to slow growth.

My cucumber plant grows about a foot every day, it's putting weeds to shame.

brian


Ditto. From my experience nitrates are not very high in ponds of a low or normal density of fish with algae (both phyto an FA), and macrophytes.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: john kelsey
Do you have pictures of your filter, I would like to see it.


what filter?

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Bcotton and Cecil I think you are right about the nutrients being low in the pond. I have lots of plants and no FA and so it seems the plants are stealing the nutrients and starving the FA and therefore starving the cabbage plants. I would have thought the pond muck would have nutrients but the cabbage plant planted in the muck is the worst of the plants so I don't understand that. Last year I planted some of Bill Cody’s red tip eel grass in muck in my sunroom and they died. I will get the raft cabbage pictures today and post them.


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Also John even in aquaponics systems at times one must add some potassium and chelated iron.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Here are the pictures of the 8 cabbages planted on June 1 and the picture of the cabbages three weeks later. My lesson's here are it's a must, to add fertilizer in raft gardening on a pond and for some reason pond muck seems to badly stunt or kill plants. The other 6 cabbage plants that are planted in the unfertilized potting soil don't seem to be doing much. If it looks worthwhile I may build a better system for next year. I waded out to inspect the cabbage for bug dammage and there wasn't any.





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If the muck is saturated with water it could have low dissolved oxygen. While plants leaves absorb C02 during photosynthesis their roots need abundant oxygen.

brian


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Brian that makes sense to me. When I used to make my own potting soil perlite, and vermiculite. The perlite was to aerate the soil.


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Ok I would like to add some plants to my system but think it may be too late for veggies so I was trying to determine what other plants would be the best to pull nutrients out of the water.

I can add some both to the tank (may not be best idea as Tilapia will eat) and grow beds. I would like to use what’s best to help supplement my filter at this time until I can find time to make a better filter.

Please let me know any ideas.

Thanks

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I have planted cucumbers as late as september and still gotten a few... It's not too late to plant vegetables. You may not get the best harvest but the plants will grow and will eat up nutrients if that is your goal.

anything that likes full sun and can live and grow in the july/august heat should work fine.



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If anyone suffered through my video last month. Here's an update on my plant growth.

The cucumber plant grows about a foot a day. I think the watermelon plant grew that 10 ft runner across the grass overnight... at least i know it wasnt there last sunday when i was doing some work on my ferro tank.


The arugula is tightly packed and kind of yellow. It is probably being out compete for nutrients from the cucumber, luffa and watermelon vines which are dark green and growing vigorously. Like seriously... putting weeds to shame.


The yellow squash went from finger sized fruits last weekend to these monstrosities in about a week. I am hoping to get a lot more soon. The cucumber is just now starting to fruit.









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This is great and makes me want to try and throw something together.

What is that netting you have stretched across there?

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Originally Posted By: MRHELLO
This is great and makes me want to try and throw something together.

Just do it! Otherwise, it will never happen.

My tank at my son's house is made from one of the 400 gallon IBC tanks. He's been collecting lettuce and peppers. His tomato plants have lots of green tomatoes on them -- cherry, Early Girl, Big Boy, and one of my heirlooms -- I just don't remember which kind. The cucumber plants and squash plants all have fruits growing. And that is all in a 4'x4'x6" area that is flooded and drained with a very small pump and bell siphon. He was going to add two rows of green beans yesterday.

We have been having some mortality with fish. I'm assuming it is probably lack of D.O., since the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are immeasurable, and the pH is about 7.1. Yesterday, we added more line to the pump side, and the pumped water is now being sprayed into the beds to hopefully add a little more oxygen. We also added more pipe to the drain side, along with some holes on the side of the pipe, to hopefully add even more oxygen to the water.

Because of the problems with fish mortality, I put in some goldfish from a local pet store. They too died, but it appeared to be from ICK. The original fatheads we put in have spawned, and are doing well. I think all the bluegill are gone. A few of the tilapia are still swimming.

If this doesn't help, I will probably put an airstone in the bottom and add a medium size aeration pump.

Last edited by catmandoo; 07/08/13 03:59 PM.

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I would go ahead and add the air now and not wait. You can get one at a big box store that is better than nothing. I am using the one below and have had good luck with it last year and still working this year. It is on 24/7. I also like the fact that I can add multiple stones to the tank, plus last year I had fry like crazy and was able to add air to the other tanks as well.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BJP4V0/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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The netting is just shade cloth. I have no insulation so it helps keep the water temperature down.

warm/hot water holds less oxygen than cold water so low DO is very much a possibility in the summer time.

I actually lost an adult blue gill in early summer before i put the shade cloth up. I think the direct sun is just too harsh on 100 degree days. The water probably gets hotter without the shade.


brian

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Here is my experiment so far with the raft growing cabbages in the pond.



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John,

I think the fertilized growth rules out low do. The soil just doesnt appear to have nutrients. The thing i dont get is you had pictures of flowers before the cabbage which looked like they were doing great?

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Brian the flowers of last year were planted in pre-fertilize potting soil and they did do great. I'm still not sure just how good the fertilized cabbage will do. I waded out to check it a few days ago and the head wasn't forming yet and there were a few bug spots on it. When the season is over I will take a picture of it and see if this was a good or bad idea, at least for cabbages. Your plants really look good.

John


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I quick 2 minute growth update.

Things were doormant through july and august but picked back up in september once the weather started to cool. I had very vigorous growth on everything that is still alive but it is basically one plant.

Next year, I'll train the luffa on a trellis over the grow beds to provide some summer shade to other smaller vegetable plants and keep it from out competing everything. it's a neat plant.




also by next year u hope to be completely out of the IBC fish tanks and 100% into the larger ferrocement tanks like the one you see in the background.


brian



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I drained most of my tanks this weekend so i could catch the tilapia and bring them indoors for the winter.

I took the opportunity to document the growth of some of my HSB. They were about 4in/1oz when i bought them in may.




I will be moving the HSB to the 800 gallon ferro tank for the winter later this month (after i finish building the first grow bed for that tank.)

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Originally Posted By: catmandoo
Originally Posted By: MRHELLO
This is great and makes me want to try and throw something together.

Just do it! Otherwise, it will never happen.

My tank at my son's house is made from one of the 400 gallon IBC tanks. He's been collecting lettuce and peppers. His tomato plants have lots of green tomatoes on them -- cherry, Early Girl, Big Boy, and one of my heirlooms -- I just don't remember which kind. The cucumber plants and squash plants all have fruits growing. And that is all in a 4'x4'x6" area that is flooded and drained with a very small pump and bell siphon. He was going to add two rows of green beans yesterday.

We have been having some mortality with fish. I'm assuming it is probably lack of D.O., since the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are immeasurable, and the pH is about 7.1. Yesterday, we added more line to the pump side, and the pumped water is now being sprayed into the beds to hopefully add a little more oxygen. We also added more pipe to the drain side, along with some holes on the side of the pipe, to hopefully add even more oxygen to the water.

Because of the problems with fish mortality, I put in some goldfish from a local pet store. They too died, but it appeared to be from ICK. The original fatheads we put in have spawned, and are doing well. I think all the bluegill are gone. A few of the tilapia are still swimming.

If this doesn't help, I will probably put an airstone in the bottom and add a medium size aeration pump.


Never ever use fish from a pet store for your system or anywhere else. As you found out they carry disease.


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This video shows some 1 day old tilapia fry in my 700 gallon ferrocement aquaponics tank. I dont try to breed tilapia anymore but when i see this i usually net a few out and put them in an aquarium. I will probably grow them out to fingerlings and use them as bass or crappie treats. "breeding tilapia" can be this easy.

The ferrocement system is still incomplete, I need to add more tanks and grow beds. Right now there is 1- 8'x6'x1' grow bed and a 700 gallon fish tank. In the fish tank are about ~7- adult tilpaia, ~10- 7-9" largemouth bass, ~10- .5-1.5lb channel catfish and 4or5 comet goldfish.


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What length do tilapia have to be before they spawn? And why aren't the fish gorging themselves on them.

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They spawn at 3-4 inches but these are probably getting close to 12".

I figure they arent getting annihilated because they are too small. If i had some 3" bluegill in there they would be, but all the fish in this tank are pretty big and i dont think they see a tiny fry as a food source.

I "saved" 200-300 by scooping them up with a net. The life expectancy of fry in that 700 gallon tank are not long. Maybe a few days. I figure the channel cats get them at night when they get inactive near the bottom but i dont know. I dont see anything attack them

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there were only a handful of fry left in the 700 gallon tank when i fed the fish today. i did see a couple of fry in the sump so possible they are getting sucked up by the plumbing and end up dying in the grow beds


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I had some goldfish in my tank last year for the kids and thought maybe I received all male tilapia. Then I noticed some fry one day and the Goldfish were going crazy.

Now I know why their bellies were so distended.

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What kind of containers are the white ones you are using for the grow beds?

Also where can one purchase those?

Can you recommend any other type of grow beds as well, trying to get one added ASAP?

Plus as far as grow bed media goes what types do you use and why?


Thanks



Originally Posted By: bcotton
System 2, Outdoors in north texas.

The apartment design is the simplest of designs. A pump in the fish tank pumping to the grow beds which drained back into the fish tank.


The major draw back to this design is that if your plumbing fails, your fish tank can go empty.

A minor draw back to this design is that the water fluctuates in the fish tank. Some people say that this is unhealthy or stresses the fish but I have seen no practical evidence to support that claim [as long as the fish tank never gets too low or goes empty.] I often use my sumps as a nursery tank for sick or weakend fish and for fry grow out. I have noticed no significant effects of the water level changes in growth, health or behavior.

It is not really a design flaw, but the grow trays are only 6 inches deep and i wanted deeper grow beds to support taller plants. Six inch grow trays worked find for greens and herbs but tall plants like peppers and tomatoes want to fall over because there's not enough base support.


This second design is at a rental house and I am working with a space that i cannot modify so the space affected the system design considerably.


To protect against plumbing failure, the main difference in design is the addition of the sump tank. This is a modified CHOP (constant height one pump) design or some refer to as a CHIFT/PIST (constant hieght in fish tank/pump in sump).

To move my system/fish without deaths, I bought a new 300 gallon fish tank which I filled with water at the new property. I treated the ~300 gallons tap water water with 3000mg of aesorbic acid(vitamin C) to destroy the chloramines and let it sit with an aerator overnight. I was then able to move the tilapia in 5 gallon buckets to the new tank. Then over the next couple of days I moved the rest of the system



The fish tank stays constant height and overflows into the sump. The pump is in the sump and pumps to all of the grow beds which drain back into the fish tank.





I am looking ahead to north texas winters and I realize that I will not be able to keep the tilapia through a second winter(first was in the apt). So in anticipation. A few weeks after i got moved, I took a trip to buffalo tx to get 36 channel cats and 24 bluegill fingerlings. I have plenty of filtration for this fish load right now, but as the fish grow I am going to need more filtration so i get started building some larger 4'x8'x9,5" grow beds using wood and pond liner.


An architectural abomination, i am embarassed to post this.



Each new grow bed is built for ~100$ which is probably one third of what i paid for the hydroponic grow trays I used before The wood beds covers about the same square footage but due to increase depth provide more filtration (cubic feet).

Each new grow bed is about 150gallons or .75 CY. I priced hydroton for this volume and it came out to roughly 1400$. I decided to buy 1.5 Cy of expanded shale which cost a hair over $100. No brainer, right? I've already talked about pluses and minuses of expanded shale in a previous update. I should also note that smaller diameter also means more surface area for bacteria, which is another minor positive. I chose expanded shale over pea gravel and river rock primarily because it is lighter.





I moved to this house in march, The growth was decimated by insect and caterpillars in april and into may. Then in mid-late may predator insects and birds found the smorgasbord and the plants were recovered by mid june when these pictures were taken. My romain lettuce were slighly out of season and bolted but everything was looking healthy and green. The tomato plants are wide/full plants and producing some small tomatoes. The pepper plants were still growing/establishing and I think you can see some squash plants in one of the pictures going nuts.


Brian

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1) Those are botanicare hyrdoponic grow beds. but i dont recommend them. They are expensive and shallow 4"-6". They work obviously but you are limited to short plants greens and herbs. Tall plants will have a problem staying upright when the wind blows. I try to make my grow beds 12" deep.


2) You can get premade grow beds like those at a hydroponics supply place

3) Other grow bed options inclide wood and pond liner, food grade barrels or ibcs cut in half, anything that can support the substrate, holds water and wont leech.

4) I use 1/2" expanded shale. It's a little bit lighter than river rock and porous. It is not PH nuetral. It's relatively cheap when you buy it by the CY. River rock is a good just heavier.

You may find alternatives rocks thatw ill work well. Anything that is ph neutral, and .5-1" in diameter should work well. You can test media ph by submerging it in vinegar. If it is a alkaline you will see bubbles.


I try to avoid pea sized gravel because it has a tendency to clog up with fish solids and plant roots.

The expanded clay balls you get at the hydro store are light, ph neutral and pretty perfect, but they are about 14x more expensive, If you are doing a very small system it may be worth it because you dont have to buy in bulk.

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I was trying to find something fairly cheap to try this year since it is so late and not sure when I will even get to it. Plus like you said the beds you can buy are really high so I wanted to try something like a plastic tub or something else similar to that if you thought it may work.

They tank I will probably hook it up to is about 300 gallons, i have another 110 gallon stock tank I had thought about using but it may have to wait until next year since my fish are already in the 300 tank and running at this time, plus I do not have the room or access to power for another tank at this time.

I may try to build one out of wood next year and use a liner but wanted to just get something going this year to see if I could get some plants to grow and possibly help out my fish by pulling out some nutrients from the water.

I have even thought about just trying to grow some sort of plants that may do a better job using the nutrients than veggies. Do you grow other items like that, which are easy to grow and use tons of nutrients.

Please let me know.

Thanks

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I want to correct something i said i oversimplified. You can grow more than herbs and greens in a 4-6" grow bed. Tomatoes and peppers, squash, broccoli, cucumbers, watermellons.. For some of these things you may need to train them or setup trellis but you could grow anything really. It's just might be a little more to consider. Plus, generally more biofiltration the better.


Yah, rubbermaid tubs can work. I have seen people use those cement mixing tubs. they are shallow but like you say, it's temporary. you could even use the 110 galoon stock tank as a grow bed.

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Aquaponics is a way of growing plants without using soil. Instead you grow plants in water without soil. Aquaculture involves the farming of aquatic animals in a fish tank. Aquaponics combines hydroponics and aquaculture in a symbiotic way. The plants grown in the hydroponic system help the aquatic animals. In turn the aquatic animals in the aquaculture environment help the plants survive in the Hydroculture System. You can get complete step by step guide at our website.

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Brian does some pretty amazing things in his back yard.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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