Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Building a lake without a watershed?

I have 2 pit ponds and they do go up and down but I love them. They never get muddy or stained and make for rich water that is a crackerjack place to fish. I wish I had a well to feed them. His well should keep his pond in great shape.

Billy, if the top 2 ft are sand and the rest clay, it will always be 2 ft below full pool. No problem. One acre ft of water is 326,000 gallons and the pump will push 2,100 gallons per hour or 50,400 gallons per day.

So, it all depends on how many acres and how deep it is.

South of Falfurias about 35 miles. Between 281 & 77.

If they take the clay from the pond bottom, plate over the top 2 feet of sand and compact it properly, I think the pond will stay full if the well can keep up.

Absolutely. Since there doesn't seem to be any ground water issues, I'd make that pond as solid as a bathtub. Even with the evaporation, if it's solid, the pump should keep up with the water loss.

I've heard rumors that there's deer down there. Any truth to that?

Scott and Al, I've never understood how to make clay stay on a vertical surface. But, I've never tried it. One thing I do believe is that, if the side is "plastered" with solid clay, it will have to be kept continually under water or at least wet. If not, it will crack.

Dave:

I agree on all counts. But, the top 24" layer is sand, and that should be tapered 3:1 so it should be easy to plate over the sand. Anything steeper than that with sand will cause the sand to slough off and migrate to the bottom of the pond.

There is a formula out there somewhere that takes averages of air temperature, humidity, water temperature, surface area, wind speed, and light to calculate hourly evaporation rates. I read about it one time but can't recall where. That is information you will need to know.

I believe the plan is to dig down. Another words to essentially make a hole and not deal with the sand at all. I guess the other way to do it would be to build a burm to fold the water but that certainly would not make much sense, would it?

I believe the plan is to sod grass along the edges to prevent this from happening. Wouldn't that work?

If the entire area is clay then we really shouldn't have to "plaster" it, on the sides of anything, should we?

I believe they are talking about the top 2-3 feet that you said is sand. The water will rise up to that level and then soak/bleed out into the sand, never reaching the surface level of your topography. That might be ok if you also removed horrendous amount of dirt around the edges of the pond so it would have a nice walkable slope down to the waters edge. BUT why? Just take some of the clay that comes out of the bowl and pack down in the rim where there is sand and you will get the water to rise all the way up.

Gotcha. That is what I had in mind but you explained it much better! Speaking of packing the clay, do you still have to pack the existing clay if it is already present or will it just be naturally water tight? I think I know the answer, which is yes, but thought I'd ask.

Bklem, what about the old old maid daughter?

As long as the equipment was there, I would. Yes, it'd be more $$ up front, but a lot less than if you had to drain and re-pack it. I'm more of a belt and suspenders type of guy.

But, I'm not the guy on the machine when the pond is being dug. You never know what you'll run into when digging. It might be good enough without packing.

Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Bikini, Krakatoa, Vesuvius...

Dang Scott!! You read my mind so freaking well!! Are you sure you're not my lost twin brother? LOL

Indeed, for central Texas, I looked up the historical data, and man, the temperature is going to be a killer. The transevaporative process is reaching the 65gpm, but should be sufficient to handle the size of exposed surface area, as long as there's no leakage.




Dwight, dead on! Man, you guys are brilliant when it comes to sciences. This forum covers pretty much the entire array of PhD to field-based experienced gurus. This is where historical data from NOAA comes in handy, as well as some Almanac info, since Texas is a bit behind on their information updates. Once the info get tabulated, you then utilize 4 equations to calculate for the speed of transevaporation. Unfortunately, it has to be done by hand. This is where calculus comes in handy.

Billy, 2 acres, with the constant 65gpm without leeching loss, you're golden, with a 25% of water to spare. 3 acres, based on the temperature peek between 95°F to 110°F, you may experience net water loss of -12%, at 65gpm. I'll have my coworkers in the geological department do some side calculations during their lunch time to verify. If they come up with something different, I'll let you know. Sorry, morning hours and not having the coffee hitting my brain yet makes me a bit slow.

Wow, you lost me when you said "calculus"! Two things I don't do- math and running!!! Thanks for the effort. Sounds like we should be fine as long as we don't have a leak!

LOL no old maid ! I'd be first in line if that was the case!

All the more to confirm what Esshup said. Pack all of it if time, money and circumstances allow it. If you are paying to fill it, you don't want any to go to waste needlessly.

Very true.

Now that I am clear as mud on everything we have discussed, here are some other questions I have.
#1 Will there be any need for any type of spillway in the remote chance that we have heavy rain-don't laugh it used to rain down there four or five years ago!

#2 I think I understand how the artificial creeks and humps will be designed and I also hope to have several rock piles/condos along the "creeks" but how do I go about getting any hardwood in place? I envision digging them up, setting them aside, and then after all is done and before filling, re-planting-if you will-them in strategic locations. Does that have any merit or will that just open the door for leakage?

Clear as mud is still pretty good compared to clear as the darkest night

1. If you want to make the lake's bank equal all the way around, then a spill way is a good idea. Since there's a few feet of elevation different, spillway is not needed. The lowest part of the lake will be your spillway. Just make sure to dig a bit deeper on the higher elevation end to create a nice equalized depth between the lowest elevation depth to the higher end. For the lowest end, if you don't want your bank to erode away heavily during a high rain event, best to line the bottom of the earthen spillway with a coconut mat (used in construction all the time), lined with a layer of compact earth, and then lined with a layer of 2" to 3" rocks as energy dissipation system to prevent slope erosion.

If you want to find out unique creek-like energy dissipation design, look at the local Department of Transportation and Natural Resource Department for creek embankment restoration for creek/spring restoration and beautification processes, utilizing energy dissipation methods. Rain garden is also used for slope erosion control for downstream pond owners as well when there's overspills occurring annually.

2. If you can drill down even deeper, and see where the clay will end, this will provide you the info on what kind of plants is good to replant in the lake. Plants that have deep boring roots, if you have have the large clay strata, will allow an escape for water to the lose soil below the existing clay layer later. So, it's all how much you are willing to drill and test how deep your clay layer really is.

Well, hope that mud is becoming a bit clearer..lemonade clear maybe?

I am sure Maple could handle it. I know a professor that used Maple to solve five equations, five unknowns for his 8 yr son's pine wood derby car to make sure the weight balance was correct.

#1- A spillway is always a safe backup and it saves your dam. We have a pipe through all of our ponds to draw them down when the water is less than 3 feet above the top of the pipe. Make sure the pipe is installed correctly by tamping dirt correctly under and along the sides of the pipe and include anti-seep collar. A good pond builder will know how to do this.

#2- What hardwood trees do you have in mind? Do you want standing timber? There are many options. Just trying to figure out what exactly you have in mind.