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#332708 - 04/29/13 10:27 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
kenc Offline


Registered: 11/07/11
Posts: 909
Loc: Aylett, VA
All main breakers will blow sometimes when you turn them back on. How could they set the panels up wrong? My brother is an electrian and my electrian has worked for me for 37 years. Both of them say the same thing and niether would do me any harm. Breakers just get weaker over the years and they blow sometimes when they are flipped on and off. Sometimes they go bad without being flipped on. Small breakers are not to costly but a main breaker will cost more then the panel box. That is why I never turn off the main breaker. Al and Brian do know their stuff but I suspect you are an expert as I am in my field. Experts can give an unbiased report so that is why I thought you would do a good job.
_________________________
Two ponds, 13 and 15 acres on the Mattaponi River.

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#332715 - 04/30/13 12:01 AM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: kenc]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
In regards to the motor getting hot. Wouldn't the motor be cooled by the pond water? (huge heat sink)
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#332737 - 04/30/13 08:28 AM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
All, AKen is right, it is an inline fuse like in a modern truck or car.

I plan on running this unit as much as possible to keep the O2 levels up in Georgetopia. If I find that I don't need to run it as much, then I will consider running it a little less.

Know that this is a work in progress and I do have fun playing on the bleeding edge. The solar system is the same system I used very successfully last summer to pump water on to the big dam to grow the grass that is now on it. If I get the aerator running well, I may make a permanent solar system for Georgetopia to run all my electric needs out there.

AKen, would your engineers consider 24V? or 36 or 48V? at 24V the amps are halved and much more reasonable. At 48V, there are efficiencies that would almost ensure 24/7 operations. If this takes off, a integrated thermal CB would be a great protection enhancement.

Also, any word yet on suggestion number one?

As always, I'll post the good, the bad, and even the ugly if that happens. That is the price of admission to the bleeding edge.

Laugh with me or at me, either way, I am in it for the full E-ticket ride!!

Scott, I am planning on checking the motor's temp while running and I'll let you know what I come up with as the season progresses. I suspect the water will cool the motor as it passes the motor on the way through the system, but I will know soon enough.


Edited by highflyer (04/30/13 08:33 AM)
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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#332742 - 04/30/13 09:21 AM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
ewest Online   content
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Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
Go for it Brian and good luck ! Results will be appreciated.
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#332769 - 04/30/13 04:13 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
Oh I will Eric, the "Geek Nerd" in me is in high gear with the turbo boost set to max!! I love moving the bar!!


One of these days I need to just go fishing and enjoy the fruits of our labor, but not today.......... grin
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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#332788 - 04/30/13 08:27 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: kenc]
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
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Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 6692
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: kenc
All main breakers will blow sometimes when you turn them back on. How could they set the panels up wrong? My brother is an electrian and my electrian has worked for me for 37 years. Both of them say the same thing and niether would do me any harm. Breakers just get weaker over the years and they blow sometimes when they are flipped on and off. Sometimes they go bad without being flipped on. Small breakers are not to costly but a main breaker will cost more then the panel box. That is why I never turn off the main breaker. Al and Brian do know their stuff but I suspect you are an expert as I am in my field. Experts can give an unbiased report so that is why I thought you would do a good job.


We'll talk circuit breakers at a later date and on another thread, but it depends on what type of loads you have that are currently connected (hot) when you flip the mains. Resistive loads are gradual, but inductive loads, like motors, are going to grab everything they can, very quick! If your main CB can't handle the inrush current when you flick it on, usually trip it back out or fry it.

Kasco hasn't posted anything on the 12vdc rig yet, except for a very short video.

Fuses are current limiting devices, as well as circuit breakers. You can get these in every flavor imaginable.

Fuses however, are not Temperature devices wink

If we are going to melt a 25 amp automotive fuse, what makes you think someone won't throw a 50 amp in, or even bypass it altogether?

Brian,
+1 on the higher voltages, that should keep things a bit cooler at the motor level.

A Thermal Circuit Breaker would be a step up, but where would it be placed? It has to work with thermal stuff to get the desired effect of what you are thinking.

Something at the motor that would actually measure the temp of the whirring device would actually be better. Feedback to the controlling device would also be a benefit.

Don't know if you have a controlling device tho?

Look this up: Amps X Volts = Watts

Better yet, (Amps x Volts) / efficiency = Watts.

A 12 volt motor at 10 amps is going to suck the same watts as a 24 volt motor at 5 amps.


Edited by JKB (05/01/13 07:43 AM)

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#332799 - 04/30/13 09:27 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
kenc Offline


Registered: 11/07/11
Posts: 909
Loc: Aylett, VA
JKB, it is fine to talk about CB on another thread but correct me if I am wrong. You turn off all energy sucking machines then turn off all Circuit breakers,then turn breakers back on,then machines gradually. That is how we do them here but we stay away from the main breaker. Tell me if I need to do something different.
_________________________
Two ponds, 13 and 15 acres on the Mattaponi River.

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#332875 - 05/01/13 01:00 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
JKB,
Agree with all, nicely said.

Here is the bigger picture. I met one of the Kasco big wigs at pondboss con V last Oct and saw their 12 emergency aerator and I asked them if they would convert it to a fulltime 12V aerator. And here is where we stand so far. I got the first one and I told them I would post my experience on PondBoss. It is a work in progress to some degree. They may choose not to improve on their device or they may choose to update it as they see fit.

I have been asking for a few modifications and improvements in the hopes of making this thing a rock solid off grid system that will help pond owners all over the place. Kasco is a business, so anything I ask for needs to have a return on their investment, which it should as the amount of feedback I have been receiving is high. In short, their cost have to be recouped in sales. So I'll ask for the moon and hope I at least get a ride into space!!

Lets hope the engineers have more pull than the beancounters out of the gate, after that, the sales should come as I really like this thing when I am pushing the limits, it is great insurance.
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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#332878 - 05/01/13 01:32 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
FireIsHot Online   content
Moderator


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3875
Loc: Emory TX
OK, let me dumb this down a little. Would a rheostat cut voltage and there by cut the heat generated by the motor? Or would the motor generate the same heat irregardless?

If so, would running the aerator at 80% possibly reduce heat and allow the motor to run longer without overheating? And, would running the motor at 80% be better for the pond than running it at a 100% for 8 or 10 hours?

I've been planting Caladiums all morning and all this has been running through my head.
_________________________
AL

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#333070 - 05/02/13 08:51 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
Allen, it is simpler to lower the amps by doing less work or increasing the efficiency. I am working on a plan to increase the efficiency. If the change is approved by Kasco, I'll let you all know!! So far the engineers have not called me back, but the sales guys are very interested!!
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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#333073 - 05/02/13 09:11 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: kenc]
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 6692
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: kenc
JKB, it is fine to talk about CB on another thread but correct me if I am wrong. You turn off all energy sucking machines then turn off all Circuit breakers,then turn breakers back on,then machines gradually. That is how we do them here but we stay away from the main breaker. Tell me if I need to do something different.


Drop everything out before dropping out your main CB, if you will be doing maintenance or working on your wiring. The reason for a main Circuit Breaker is that you can kill power to everything at one flip of a switch. This is extremely valuable for the public servants that help us in crisis.

I am working out my electrical scheme, and for the most part, it has been positive.

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#333075 - 05/02/13 09:37 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: JKB]
Rentzlaw Offline


Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 68
Loc: North Texas
Originally Posted By: JKB

I am working out my electrical scheme, and for the most part, it has been positive.


I think I see part of your problem...In most electrical schemes it is important to have polarity...


Sorry, couldn't resist (pun intended).

John
_________________________
Give a few country boys a little money, beer, an arc welder and power tools and great things can happen...or someone is going to the hospital or jail.


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#333076 - 05/02/13 09:44 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 6692
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: highflyer
Allen, it is simpler to lower the amps by doing less work or increasing the efficiency. I am working on a plan to increase the efficiency. If the change is approved by Kasco, I'll let you all know!! So far the engineers have not called me back, but the sales guys are very interested!!


Sales guy's are always interested wink

You really need to know what the motor is before you can put the screws to it.

I think the engineers may know something that you may not be aware of.

First question I would ask is, What is the Duty Cycle of the motor? If it is rated other than Continuous, you may not be able to achieve your goals with this motor.


Edited by JKB (05/03/13 08:48 AM)
Edit Reason: Duty Cycle

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#333079 - 05/02/13 09:54 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: Rentzlaw]
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 6692
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Rentzlaw
Originally Posted By: JKB

I am working out my electrical scheme, and for the most part, it has been positive.


I think I see part of your problem...In most electrical schemes it is important to have polarity...


Sorry, couldn't resist (pun intended).

John


laugh laugh laugh

I was talking about positive with the JHA.

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#333429 - 05/05/13 09:38 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
JKB, I found out why the engineers have not called back yet, they got a few snow days as the office was buried with snow and the power was out.

All of those questions are in the queue. Plus a few more. As this unfolds, I'll let you all know, but for now, I am seeing what it can do for me with the setup I have. I'll be back to the farm in the morning with George and we will report our progress after that trip.

Again, any thoughts or questions are welcome, I always learn something from a good question and at times I learn even more from a bad question....
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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#333614 - 05/07/13 09:07 AM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
Well, George and I got out to the farm yesterday and had a big time. Georgetopia is doing well. The total ALK is above 80 and the water has cleared some. I have adjusted the time on the solar powered aerator and I now have it running throughout the day and night at different time. (I do not have it running 24/7 yet) One other observation George noted is that the float is too big for this motor and because the float rides so high in the water, the propeller is allowed to cavitate from time to time. The simple solution is to add some weight to the float to get it to ride lower in the water. That will be on the list of things to do this weekend.



After playing in Georgetopia, George tried out a stubby worm in the big pond to see if my unfeed trained LMB would go for it, well, here was his first catch!

!5 inches long 2Lb 3oz and she appeared to be post spawn!!




And here is how George did it:



George rid the worm to be the weed guard and allowed the LMB to still catch the hook in the upper lip.

All in all, I saw between 5 and 7 LMB nesting in the area we cleared out this winter. It will be interesting to see how the fish colonize the newly opened waters.

I am also hoping to hear back from the engineers some time this week about the aerator possible modifications. I'll keep you informed.
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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#333617 - 05/07/13 09:33 AM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
ewest Online   content
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
How did the jar test work? Have you added any alum yet? What is your visibility ? Hard to tell from pics but a little clearer would be better. By now the fish should be feeding well.
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#333627 - 05/07/13 10:47 AM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: ewest]
george1 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 3794
Loc: Plano Texas
Originally Posted By: ewest
How did the jar test work? Have you added any alum yet? What is your visibility ? Hard to tell from pics but a little clearer would be better. By now the fish should be feeding well.

My observatiion is that the pond just needs time to mature a bit....surface aerator may be contributing to turbity - looks improved since my last visit.
G/
_________________________

N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)





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#333675 - 05/07/13 06:48 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
Eric, the jar test is set for this weekend as George TOOK all of my time yesterday!!!

The visibility is better now, I would estimate over 8 inches. The color of the water is also better with a slight green hugh. I added another pound or so of fertilizer as I see the color looking better. The jar test I started last month has settled almost completely, so I expect a little more ag-lime will make a even greater difference. I am shooting for a total ALK of something north of 150ppm which means I will need to add about 1500 pounds more.

About the feeding of the CNBG, last week they fed well, but with all of the cooler weather we have been getting, very few fish came up intill the afternoon feeding. I did catch a bunch of FHMs in fishtrap 2.0 lite yesterday that were very fat!! I expect after the water warms back up a few degrees the feeding will be restored. I also plan on sampling some of the fish starting this weekend. using hook and line.

By the way, has anyone had any success with a fake Owl as a deterrent to birds or other bandits around a forage pond? Does anything work better passively?
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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#334323 - 05/11/13 01:21 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
I got a call from a BIG Wig at Kasco late this week and the news is good!! They are very interested in helping me experiment with my 12 Volt DC aerator. I should be getting some enhanced items this week and the preliminary testing they have done are just what I would expected and wanted!! My field trials will begin as soon as I get the "enhancements" and I'll post the amp draw and O2 levels as soon as I can say definitively.

I CAN'T WAIT!!!!! I love to play with cool toys!!!!
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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#334328 - 05/11/13 02:32 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
esshup Offline
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Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Don't forget the jar test.....

LMB are spawning in my pond. Can't see nests, but some 17" fish have lost 1/4# in weight over the past 2 weeks.
_________________________
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http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#334634 - 05/13/13 05:18 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
Scott, I am up in Canada right now, but as soon as I get back I'll setup a jar test set. I'll try a few different levels to see how it works.

My bass have been on and off the nesting areas depending on the latest cold front to move through. I wish those cold fronts would cause more rain around our farm as we really need the water. Some of my neighbors are down 10 or more feet in their ponds. It is heart breaking to see. If we don't get rain soon, this year could be worse that '11.

I think I am really glad to get an aerator in Georgetopia before the heat hits this summer. It might be a tough summer and I have a bunch of CNBG in there trying to grow big.
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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#334658 - 05/13/13 09:26 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 6692
Loc: Michigan
It would be interesting to know what all the questions were, and the responses.

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#334750 - 05/14/13 05:44 PM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
JKB,
Ask away, what do you what to know about. I got no secrets here. As I learn about this system and how to better it, I'll post everything. I did get a new prop for the 12V aerator today and I will compare it to the installed one for amps, temp, water movement, O2 levels in Georgetopia, ect. and Of course, I'll post the answers here.

After I get the results, I'll see where I would like to go if it can be improved for our small remote ponds.

(Hint Hint:) I have a friend who has a 3D printer and making enhanced parts to prove the concept should be very easy.......

Learning curve, activate!!
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

Top
#336595 - 05/28/13 10:51 AM Re: the beach clean-up and Lake Georgetopia [Re: highflyer]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1864
Loc: East Texas
Well as always, I have been very busy, But I did make it out to the farm this weekend to do a little work and have some fun. First things first, I added the new propeller to the DC aerator and I must say the new prop is definitely Brian Approved!! Even in heavy overcast the voltage did not fall below 12.7 volts (side note: I was unable to check the amps due to an equipment issue). The new prop also throws a better water pattern, it is a little taller and curtains much better as it falls. Yes the prop is smaller, but it seems to be much better matched to the DC motor than the original prop that came with it. And I did not ever notice a cavitation with the new prop the entire weekend.

After several hours of running, I swam out to it and found it cool to the touch in 79F water.

I also did a few DO tests. I checked the DO when I got to the farm and it was very good from top to bottom. Then I let the pond sit over night. I check the DO and Temps again and found that there was some stratification.

Here are the numbers:
When completely mixed the pond was 79.8F and the DO was around 9PPM (side note I checked calibration three times because the DO was that high). In the morning, after I let the pond sit over night, I found that the top water was 80.2F and the bottom water was 76F. The Do was in the low 8PPM range on the top of the pond and around 5PPM near the bottom. After one hour with the new prop running, I tested the pond again and I had a complete mixing of the water with a temp again at 79.6F throughout the water column. The DO was also in the high 8's PPM and after another hour of the new prop running, I found the temps uniform throughout the water column and the DO again right around 9.1PPM throughout.

As for the CNBG, they are doing well and are hitting the AM400 & 500 well. I will start the first culling the next time I am out at the farm and have the time. Their color is very nice and they are full of energy!! I can't wait to see how they look after I sein them out.

One other thing I noted was that I did see some algae on the banks of Georgetopia and I am unsure where that is coming from. Any thoughts?

Thanks again for any ideas or questions. Pictures will follow as soon as I can get them uploaded.
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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