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The water is pretty hard. Heavy "hard water build" up on the Well pipe that flows into the pond. My pond is pretty loaded with the bream. I will try to get Shinners started as well as you mentioned. The pond I know of near me that has 4- 30 plus inche tarps (one 36 incher at least) and two nearly 30" snook is loaded down with BG and shinners. It is a really tiny pond. Actually that one seems like those big predators are not keeping up with the the BG. tons of stunted BG and large schools of shiners and of coarse lots of tilapia. When I would feed the BG pellets the tarps and snook would exsplode on them. Pretty cool to watch


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If they start running out of food I might have to resort to adding bait fish, I can go cast netting for a day and get hundreds of fingerling mullet to add to supliment food also. but I am following you, Cant add to many big fish eaters in a little pond.

It has no aration, I did however raise up the outflow pipe of the well water a couple feet about the water line to allow it to splash for better airation.


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You may want to consider aeration, I'd hate to see your hard work of growing those fish to quality size only to lose it all one hot day...

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Me too, fountains work well to aerate, correct ? pond might be 8-10 feet at the deepest most is around 5-6 feet deep.


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Fountains do not work as well as bottom diffusers.

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I need to drink less coffee. I thought it said where do you get fatheads in the NFL? If that be the question, I have a long list.

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Originally Posted By: Sniper
I need to drink less coffee. I thought it said where do you get fatheads in the NFL? If that be the question, I have a long list.


While you may be crazy for other reasons, this is not it. I've been reading that every time I see it too.

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I started out looking for a place to get FHM in NE FL and am still interested in finding a place to get them, a list would be greatly appreciated..............

I think the reason i was looking for them got every one side tracked, but that fine by me, its great to have any one interested in my pond antics.......

Any info on the FHM availabily would be greatlty appreciated.

Last edited by BobbyRice; 09/05/12 12:48 PM.

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FH are pretty easy to raise if you have the right setup.

Only company in FL I heard about (a long time ago) was breeding them for environmental assessments. (they get the long dollar for every life stage) A guy I knew in Holland, MI... Same thing, day in and day out. That is all he did! I have raised FH, and similar, like the Blackchin and Bluntnose in tanks, not an aquarium! And did well as far as the experiments and outcome.

It is a bit more involved than what I am saying right now, and takes careful planning and following a developed protocol.

6-8 hundred bucks burning a hole in your pocket, probably would net a couple hundred pounds per year if you used cheap plastic barrels. Tropicana probably has a bunch available.

If you really are set on FHM and none are available, do some research smile



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BR

I think adding FHM to your pond, already stocked with predator fish, is not a wise investment nor the best way to reach your goal of providing forage. They will be extirpated within a matter of weeks if not sooner in a BOW that size.

You'd be far better selecting a forage fish that possesses excapability response and stands a chance of reproducing. Why not just get BG, Tilapia and Shiners going? Much better investment and you'll achieve your goals of providing an sustainable forage source.


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I was hoping the only really big issue for the FHM at this point is the bream, pretty good population of them and some decent size becuase the snook I saw and the baby tarpon seemed small. Thanks for your feed back, you have reconfirmed my fears that they would be just all eaten up and not last. I was gonna just try it any way so you have saved me a little money. I am thinkig I will go with the Shinners instead of the FHM as I can get free ones. I can get large adult wild shinners, bigger than any thing can eat in the pond at this time. There is plenty to eat for them at the moment so by the time the shinners start reproducing the pond might need some extra forage.

I will also start adding the golden top minnow for diversity of food selection.

So the plan now is to have bream, Gambusia, shinners and golden top minnows as well as the tilapia .We rarely get a winter kill on them so they just keep on reproducing. Even the very small pond near me that has at least 6 , 10-30 pound tarpon and snook feeding on them is loaded with them. this is one heck of a discusion about FHM.... :-)


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One thing to watch with the GSH. If they are in a BOW that has invasive plants, there's a good possibility of transferring those plants to your pond along with the GHS.

I relocated over 200 GSH between 6" and 9" to my pond, and had Eurasian Water Milfoil show up a year later. A year after that I was visited by a bunch of geese that I didn't chase away for a few weeks, and I think they brought even more of the stuff with them, either as pieces or in their poop.

I think the GSH had some milfoil seeds in their gut and pooped them into the pond. I didn't transfer any of the water from that BOW into my pond.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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between the grass carp and the koi, plants do not stand much of a chance, I actually built plant cages in an attempt to even have a couple isolated patches of vegitaion. I am assuming they will eat or tear up just about any thing vegitative. They even elimiated the cat tails growing in one corner of the pond by eating or uprooting the roots.
I will try to not carry any water from that pond, I know the pond I am going to get them from is pretty bare as far as weeds, pretty much just a sand bowl.



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Without vegetation you will have no reproduction from shiners, and survival of any offspring from any fish will stand close to zero chance of survival due to lack of cover/habitat.

You may need to consider thinning out your GC and Koi if your goal is to establish a self sustaining forage base. You will not have one without some kind of habitat whether it's vegetation or artificial [trees or pvc].


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I have a multitude of Pallet fish structures. "Two" 6 sided cubes, "one" 4 tier pallet house ( about a foot between ech pallet ), "one" pallet trangle using 3 pallets, "two" stacks of 4 pallets just on top of each other and also "one" (nice sized) pile of busted up concrete rubble on the bottom. Lots of actual structure laid around on the bottom of the pond. Just no plants...Yet any way....Assuming my cages work. I have a few pics of the structure stuff, I will upload for viewing tonight when I am not "GOOFING OOF" on my work computer. :-)


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Aquatic vegetation is a far better cover than pallets and concrete blocks for GSH spawning and cover. As I had recommended before, you may want to take out all but 1 grass carp from your pond...

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Sounds like I should take out some grass carp, 4 total in the pond and they are hungry. Ill get the cages started with the plants in them and as I can get a couple GC out perhaps the eel grass and lilly pads will be able to be able to spread beyond the cages. If not than at least they will have some pockets of vegitation.

I really appreciate all the advice and suggestions regarding the FHM :-) and the pond in general. I will keep posted as I add more fish and how it is doing.

Last edited by BobbyRice; 02/08/12 05:39 PM.

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I'll be interested to hear how you progress!

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Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
I'll be interested to hear how you progress!


Me too, great thread!

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going after work to round up some wild GSH and I have about 10 dozen good size Mud Minnows ( Gulf Killi Fish ) and a hand full of sail fin mollies to add. I have been setting out the minnow trap in a mostly fresh, brackish creek right by the house.

Also, going to get the vegetation cages in the water and seeded with submerged plants and water lilles........

If I catch any thing Ill post a picture...

I will take a few pictures of the bream too, those things are hard to keep off the end of your line....


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SOOO...I got a little over a dozen wild GSH from a local park, they look like they might actually be ready to spawn...Fat bellies....


Also got a few hundred nice sized mud minnows to add to the pond via the minnow trap...Have already done a few sets of stockings of the mud minnows to supplement the gambusia minnows all ready in the pond..




The pond I sourced from is loaded with RES too, must have thrown back three dozen of them...Might have something to do with the fact is has lots of clams in it..


Last edited by BobbyRice; 01/07/13 04:13 PM.

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Sounds like a fun place to go fishing... Let us know how your new stockings do.

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I did get the mud minnows and shiners stocked and caught a bunch of the bream. They do seem a thin to me. They get feed but it is by hand and is some what inconstant. The pond is wall to wall with Gambusia minnows (Large Ones) seems they would be able to catch them but based on the fact that the gambusia population seems to be unchecked and the bream seem thin I would say they do not feed on them very well.


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Some of your sunfish look like HBG, you can really see the CNBG genetics in them too... Pretty cool! The 2nd and 3rd from the bottom are the two I am particularly referring to. The second from the top and the bottom ones look like pure GSF to me.

Have you thought about thinning out some of them? In such a small pond, you may really have too many...

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several differant types of sunfish in local ponds, doesnt suprise me the they might cross when stuck ina small pond together.


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