Forums36
Topics40,947
Posts557,814
Members18,486
|
Most Online3,612 Jan 10th, 2023
|
|
1 members (TropicalKoi),
690
guests, and
232
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2
|
OP
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2 |
Looking to stock some FH and can not find a place to get them in bulk with in a reasonable distance , Any ideas?
Last edited by BobbyRice; 09/05/12 12:38 PM.
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2 |
May be tough to source fatheads in that area as shiners are king in Florida. What is your planned use for the FHM in your pond? You may be able find another species that would fit those needs that is easier to find in FL...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2
|
OP
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2 |
Wanted to give more options in lower levels and easier pry for predators. It has Mainly BG, the gambusia are very large and cover the surface. Lots of pallets and one big rock pile for them to nest. I Discovered a small tarpon and snook in the pond fishing fishing for Bream, so im thinking they will need to eat if they continue to survive. strange no LMB found a way in but they haven't and from what I have read thats a good thing. neihborhood kids added a couple Koi too.,never saw any babies from them though,.
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2 |
FHM are slow swimming and easily preyed on... It'd be my guess 1 pound of FHM would last less than 3 days in your pond. GSH may not do much better, but have a far better chance at producing a self sustaining population. The larger GSH you can source, the better chance they'll take hold.
There are a few other native species you may be able to catch locally that could survive and do well in your pond. A couple are very predator tolerant. Their are a few species of topminnows(golden, banded and lined)they are first to come to mind and the best option IMO. They are very predator resistant. They will hug the surface but get much larger than gambusia. They all reach at least 3" in size. The flagfish is another option. You may be just a bit too far north for them, depending where exactly you are in FL. Another option is the sailfin molly. A livebearer like the gambusia, but it gets about twice as large. Another species found in your area that is fairly common in ponds is the taillight shiner. In my collecting trips in FL, I caught them in numerous ponds with heavy bass populations. They reach about 3" in size. Last, I'd see if I could source some lake chubsuckers, they would be the largest option of any of these species.
I am betting your gambusia heavily prey upon the eggs of your koi. If any of the eggs do hatch, they no doubt prey on the fry as will the HBG and others.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2
|
OP
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2 |
I do have access to wild shinners and sail fin mollies. There is nothing in the pond at this pond that could eat an adult shinner exept. I guess being slow moving the FHM would be eaten up by the BG? I am not familar with the tail light shinner, I will do some google reasearch on that one. I am really hoping the Gamusia population will be reduced. You would be suprized at the size of some of the females in the pond.
Any way ,Chub suckers and GSH are egg scatters just like the koi, my concern is if the gambusia numbers are not reduced then nothing will be able to have a successful hatching. My thought was that the FHM might be able to protect the eggs at least long enough to hatch by hiding the nest and guarding it from the gambusia.
Thanks for you input on the matter
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2
|
OP
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2 |
I looked up the golden top minnow it is common around here
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2 |
Almost all species scatter their eggs and don't protect them. In most bodies of water, even ones with piles of gambusia, those species are still able to reproduce with the right habitat. You may need to research how those species spawn and try to improve on what they need.
And yes, HBG are very aggressive and will readily eat the FHM in short order. About how many HBG would you say are in your pond?
Tarpon and snook when young are fast growers, I would think they should be putting some serious size on. Did you catch them in the wild and transfer them to your pond or were you able to source them from a local hatchery?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2
|
OP
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2 |
The koi and the 4 grass carp have removed 100% of the vegitation. I am thinking this could be the an issue for the survival of any eggs laid by egg scatters.
I have created good structure such as pallet cubes and triangles along with one large "busted up concrete" rubble pile.
I am making vegitaion cages this weekend to plant some eel grass and a couple patches of lily pads. I figured even if the carp eat anything that spreads out from the cages at least the pond would have a few osasis of vegitation "EEL Grass" for any young ones and or insects etc....
as for the lilly pads, I am hoping if I protect the roots and the young sprouts they will be able to survive. I have used plastic netting "fench" with holes just large enough "I hope" for the pads to make it through to the surface put keep the hungry mouths away from the base of the lilly pads.
I will upload some pictures of my underwater creations this weekend.
Has any one had success with vegitation cages to protect submerged palnts?
I am hoping this will help out over all in the pond and make it some what a more balanced eco system........
Not sure how they got in, assuming a bird or they swam up a creek on rain high water or some helpfull neighbor dumping bait from a fishing trip fishing.
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2 |
Why don't you post your vegetation cage question in a separate thread under the aquatic vegetation sub forum. You will probably get more responses that way...
I am surprised with as far north as you are in FL, that the tarpon in particular aren't winter killing in such a small pond. Perhaps it's the extremely mild winter we're having. I had always believed tarpon were extremely sensitive to cold water. Snook are too, that cold winter we had a couple years back killed many in south FL.
Seems like you may want to remove some of your grass carp... I'd maybe keep one or two at most. 4 is an awful lot for a 1/4 acre pond.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2
|
OP
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2 |
I will post the pics on e they are done in that thread. We are real close to the coast and get the ocean effect. Also pond has flowing artisan well "72 degree water" at then skinny end so the hope is they will find a warm water sanctuary at that corner of the pond. Some how Snook and tarpon find thier way into ponds and end up land locked. I know of anther similar pond with 20 plus pound tarps and snook in it. They made it just fine through the harsh winters a few years back. They laid around the head water of the artisan water flowing in it. Sense I discovered the tarpond and snook in it I have been reading online more about other fish that can tolerate fresh water. Seems, redfish, Mangrove snapper , flounder , jacks and a few others can too. I have considered keeping a few on a fishing trip and instead of killing them and eating them I might see how they survive in fresh water.
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2 |
Artisan water flowing into the pond makes all the difference in the world! I suspect as your tarpon, snook, redfish and snappers get larger you are going to need to find a larger forage species with a higher reproductive rate. Not sure where the cut off line is for legal stocking of blue tilapia in FL, but they may end up being needed to feed those big mouths...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2
|
OP
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2 |
Im Hoping CNBG increase reproduction rate the Also shiners. Blue tilapia are in just about every pond and stream in this area.
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2
|
OP
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2 |
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2
|
OP
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2 |
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2
|
OP
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2 |
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,513 Likes: 831
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,513 Likes: 831 |
That's going to be an interesting pond!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,795 Likes: 68
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
|
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,795 Likes: 68 |
Bobby you are breaking some serious new ground...at least in my experience. Does your BOW have high salinity or can Redfish, Snook and Tarpon exist in fresh water?
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2
|
OP
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2 |
It is fresh water most people are not aware that alot of the fish in the estuaries around the coast can live just fine in fresh water. Like a striped Bass or Salmon. They can not reporuce but can thrive just fine fresh water. They are tropical to subtropical so are not real cold tolerant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euryhaline
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,752 Likes: 33
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,752 Likes: 33 |
Striped bass take some salt water for their habit. They excel in Lake Texoma.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2 |
Bobby, when you start stocking bull sharks in your pond then we know you've gotten carried away with euryhaline predators! HAHA
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2
|
OP
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2 |
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2 |
In a quarter acre pond, except it to be able to support 25-30 pounds of predatory fish. Keep that in mind as some of the species you list have very high end sizes. Won't take many 5 pound tarpon to start causing issues. You may want to consider aeration or building a bigger pond!
The key to euryhaline fish doing well in freshwater or near freshwater is that the water is hard.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2
|
OP
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,930 Likes: 2 |
I have seen shows about bullsharks being caught way upriver in fresh water. I thought about it, but kinda hard to find little ones and might be a little dangerous for swimmers. Plus I probably would end up with a pond that only has one thing it, a fat soon to be hungry shark. LOL........
Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2 |
Yes, they've been caught as far up the Mississippi as Illinois!
|
|
|
Moderated by Bill Cody, Bruce Condello, catmandoo, Chris Steelman, Dave Davidson1, esshup, ewest, FireIsHot, Omaha, Sunil, teehjaeh57
|
|