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#329317 - 04/07/13 05:47 PM Not Jumping to Conclusions
catmandoo Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5688
Loc: Hampshire Co., WV
On Christmas Day I lost two chickens to a German Shepherd dog. I just happened to be outside when he was terrorizing my small free-range flock.

I keep a shotgun near the basement door, and shells in a hidden place in my basement office. As I got near the chicken coop, the dog saw me and just laid down in the snow. With it's front paws extended, he seemed to be saying "hey, come be my friend."

Normally, I would have shot such a dog, especially after what he did to my chickens. I wasn't very happy.

Yet, it was Christmas day. He had a nice collar. He looked well taken care of. He looked very friendly. I figured he might have gotten loose from somebody visiting our rural area. I let off a warning shot into the air, and he took off.

I saw him again several more times over the next week or so. I kept the chickens locked up. Then, we never saw him again.

Today, over three months later, some neighbors came over to cut firewood from the many piles of big oaks and hickories we removed last year while building the new pond.

Since I saw the German Shepherd hanging around their property after the incident, I asked them if they knew anything about it.

Geeze, I'm glad I didn't shoot that dog.

It turns out that we have a paraplegic wheelchair-bound neighbor who lives/lived by himself, except for this dog. These neighbors told me that on Christmas Day the neighbor developed some medical issues and was taken from his home by ambulance. The dog apparently got out, and there isn't other family to look after the dog or property.

These neighbors kept the dog fed and watered for several days until other neighbors adopted the dog. The gentleman who owns/owned the dog is still not back home, but the adoptee family takes the dog to see him regularly.

A couple of weeks ago I lost another chicken to a red fox. I saw the fox, and he was a very pretty little fellow with long legs and a beautiful tail. I know where their den is, and where momma and the kits are.

The chickens are back in lockdown until probably June.
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#329320 - 04/07/13 07:07 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13600
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
WOW! I have another/different one. last year I was deer hunting when I saw a couple of beautiful white German Shepherds on my land. They had red collars. They looked like somebody's pet and certainly looked expensive. I had seen them several times on my game cameras next to me deer feeders.

I don't put up with dogs running free on my place. They have been a continual problem.

I was chapped but gave the dogs a pass. They never saw me. About a week later I ran into a neighbor. I mentioned the dogs and asked if he knew who owned them. He said that nobody seemed to know who owns them but they had attacked several people. They evidently have attacked on sight. I called the Sheriffs office and they confirmed the story. The dogs appeared to be very well fed so I don't figure them to be strays.

Great; just great.

I've never run into this type of situation. Now, I put a 30-30 on my 4wheeler.


Edited by Dave Davidson1 (04/07/13 07:07 PM)
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#329342 - 04/07/13 09:12 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
catmandoo Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
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Loc: Hampshire Co., WV
This dog actually lived in Virginia (adjacent to our property), where the law says that dogs killing or "worrying" domestic fowl or livestock are supposed to be shot by the fowl/livestock owner or otherwise killed by law enforcement personnel.

In WV it is similar, just not mandatory.

The dog now resides in WV, also adjacent to our property, but lives in a large fenced farm.

I seldom give second chances to domestic animal/fowl killing dogs running loose.

Dave -- I'm actually starting to look for a "scout" scope or a "red dot" for my post-1964 Winchester Model 94 30-30. My newest glasses don't let me use sights to accurately shoot anymore. The 30-30 looks rather worn, having been a saddle/scabbard gun at a nearby farm for about 30 years. It will serve well in our UTV.
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#329350 - 04/07/13 10:47 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13600
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
A fixed single power scope ought to work well in your situation. I'm good at about 30 yards with open sights with any accuracy. After that, I need a scope. I even have one on a 22 for shooting squirrels in the back yard. I never thought that would happen to me.

You know, I like dogs but I still take care of problems when they occur. Then, I get pretty sick and disgusted. I hate shooting dogs.
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#329354 - 04/07/13 11:16 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: Dave Davidson1]
Zep Offline
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Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 3092
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
I hate shooting dogs.


I don't think I could unless it was one mean-ass dog.

I saw a yellow lab and a border collie on our property yesterday. They came and sat about 20 yards away and watched me fish one of the ponds. They seemed pretty docile but a bit stand-off-sh. Have no idea who's they were or where they came from. Hopefully they were just passing thru.
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#329355 - 04/07/13 11:22 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
JKB Offline
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Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 6692
Loc: Michigan
The only dog I ever shot, was due to illness, and the dog was suffering. That was a very long time ago, like about 40 years or so.

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#329362 - 04/08/13 12:39 AM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
hang_loose Offline
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Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 888
Loc: Sunbury,Ohio
catmandoo, You showed a lot of patience and heart. Especially when he "bowed" to you... I don't know the the owner but I will say THANK YOU for not shooting his buddy....Kinda reminds me of "Old Yeller".

Might have to start calling you "Arliss" grin.


Edited by hang_loose (04/08/13 12:43 AM)

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#329369 - 04/08/13 01:18 AM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: hang_loose]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Ken:

In regards to the sight, is there provisions on the rifle to add a sight? Drilled/tapped receiver or otherwise?

A red dot or other sight will sit high, and might cause you to not have a good cheek weld on the stock any more.

Trijicon makes some nice low powered scopes that have the center of the x-hairs glow red or green. Green really stands out.

Aimpoint makes some good, small red-dots too. Trijicon needs no batteries, some red-dots don't have an on/off feature, just replace the battery every 3-4 months.

I wouldn't have shot that dog either since I didn't know it, and it wasn't aggressive.
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#329375 - 04/08/13 02:28 AM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
jludwig Offline


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 1455
Loc: Central Kansas
The only dogs that are shot around here are ones that run cattle and kill baby calves as they are worth a lot these days.

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#329380 - 04/08/13 05:57 AM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13600
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
That's the biggest problem from dogs, whether feral or not. Sometimes they enjoy chasing the livestock. They particularly enjoy chasing calves and colts. Actually, I have had a whole lot more problem with neighbors puppy dogs than I have from ferals. Dogs that are allowed to run wild don't often have long lifestyles in ranching country. I've never had a problem with coyotes. It doesn't take but one cut up colt to get a ranchers attention.
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#329394 - 04/08/13 09:54 AM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
I don't think I could shoot a dog but I certainly see why it could be necessary. Heck I can't even shoot a coyote as they are too much like a dog to me. I know coyotes can do a lot of damage but the deer hunters that declare war on them crack me up. When I tell them deer hunters and vehicles take out a lot more deer than coyotes they give me a funny look. The fact that they think shooting coyotes can control them is a fallacy too. If anything I want them around to control the feral cats that destroy a lot of wildlife.

Don't even get me started on dog owners that let them run free! I've got a neighbor like that and he can't figure out why the keep getting hit by cars. Go figure.
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#329397 - 04/08/13 10:27 AM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
Sunil Online   content
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Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 11521
Loc: Somerset, PA
I'm glad you didn't shoot the dog, Ken.
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#329401 - 04/08/13 10:51 AM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
Yellow Jacket Offline


Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 141
Loc: ACE Basin, SC
Many Shepherds have a strong prey drive for small dogs, cats, birds, etc. Not much can be done to get that out of them if they have it.
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#329404 - 04/08/13 11:01 AM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
Zep Offline
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Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 3092
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
Not sure if this would work or not,
these guys seems to think it will:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXo66_vc6Tk

Or this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps8g86khGFE
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#329410 - 04/08/13 11:45 AM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: Zep]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
To break a dog from being interested in a rattlesnake, they used defanged live snakes (dead things smell different than live things) and a shock collar set on maximum. If the dog showed any interest in the snake when walked downwind of it, it was zapped. HARD.

While it may seem cruel to some people, it was less cruel than having a dog bitten by a snake miles or possibly hours from any vet service. It worked VERY well, and while I took my dogs thru the course every year, after the first year they never were zapped again. They learned their lesson and remembered.

The same could be done with livestock, but the problem is that the owners of the offending dogs usually just don't care. It'd be impossible to do the training if you didn't own the dog.
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#329422 - 04/08/13 01:29 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: esshup]
catmandoo Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5688
Loc: Hampshire Co., WV
Originally Posted By: esshup
Ken:
In regards to the sight, is there provisions on the rifle to add a sight? Drilled/tapped receiver or otherwise?

A red dot or other sight will sit high, and might cause you to not have a good cheek weld on the stock any more.


Scott -- This is about a 1968 Winchester Model 94 that ejects out the top. There is a kit that fits the tapped side holes on the receiver. From past experience, I found them to be really difficult to use. Ain't no way to put your cheek to the stock and see through the scope. The parallax is at least out to 30 yards, and more like 50 yards. I do most of my successful freezer fills from about 30 to 75 yards.

It is hell getting old, and not being able to simultaneously focus rear and front sights to a target. That is why I'm looking at either a non-battery red-dot or a scouting scope on this old 30-30.

This particular gun is beat enough that I'm not worried about modifying it a little bit. I think I paid about $100 for it about 10 years ago. It is in great shooting condition, and was quite accurate before my last set of astigmatism-corrected glasses (trying to level a field/driveway with a dozer or a rear grader blade on the tractor has become quite an issue with my newest glasses).

Based on some of my other rifles, including my 1100 fps pellet gun, I think I could put a low power scope or a red-dot ahead of the breach on the 30-30 with very minimal modification to the wood, and no modification to the metal.

Originally Posted By: esshup
I wouldn't have shot that dog either since I didn't know it, and it wasn't aggressive.


Scott -- It wasn't aggressive towards humans. But it sure did a number on my chickens. Besides the kills, it removed a lot of feathers from several others before I got to it.

Thankfully, I live in an area where most neighbors are from rural areas. Most know the protocol on containing their pets.

A number of years ago we owned a small 20 acre farm that became part of the Washington DC suburbs. We were 40-50 miles out. Many big farms got turned into 5-20 acre "farmettes" for weekend refugees from the city.

That is where I began to have some real problems, as the city folk figured their dogs could just roam free in "the country."

I won't go into the whole sordid mess that including ATVs, UTVs, dirt-bikes, paintballs, etc. that tore up my gardens and scared our animals.

It wasn't long after that we moved across the border from VA to WV.

Then we met up with the drug dealers! That was about a dozen years ago, and five years of pure hell -- with me never going outside without a baseball bat or a 12-gauge.

I regularly trade tales with family in northern Minnesota and northern Wisconsin. These days, it doesn't seem to be a whole lot different there.

Maybe Blair the Kannook, and his wonderful family, can find a peaceful place for us to retire. Maybe we can help buy enough property to build a fun farmland.
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#329424 - 04/08/13 01:46 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
Sunil Online   content
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Registered: 09/03/03
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Loc: Somerset, PA
Dwight and I already have Oh Canada working on a plot of land for us once "Escape from USA" becomes necessary. Things are going slower 'cause we required Blair to create a 100 acre fishing hole for us first.
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#329431 - 04/08/13 02:35 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
Yellow Jacket Offline


Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 141
Loc: ACE Basin, SC
Texas is looking better to me every day.

I watched the video of the guy tying dead chickens to the neck of his Shepherd puppy to leave there to rot for 10 days as a way to "teach him a lesson."

Don't mean to be too opinionated, but that is going way over the line of inhumane to me. Also noted that he has already tried "beating the hell out of the dog" previous and that didn't seem to convince the puppy. Definitely not the way to train a dog, IMO.
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#329433 - 04/08/13 02:55 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: Sunil]
catmandoo Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5688
Loc: Hampshire Co., WV
Originally Posted By: Sunil
Dwight and I already have Oh Canada working on a plot of land for us once "Escape from USA" becomes necessary. Things are going slower 'cause we required Blair to create a 100 acre fishing hole for us first.


I like the idea. Growing up at the southern bottom of the triangle of Winnipeg and Thunder Bay, I'm not so sure I want to be shoveling snow when I'm 95.

Can you guys help?

However, having a number of MD cousins/nieces/nephews and other in-laws -- and many who are snow grader drivers, loggers, police, etc., from Ontario to British Columbia, maybe this could work.

We just gotta find a way to get more good food, including preserved fish! Jellied moose nose is really great. Can we enjoy "akutaq" this far south without importing the delicious materials?

Anyway, I'm ready for a food expedition on the border, somewhere from Thunder Bay to the country outskirts of Vancouver.

Maybe we could get Pond Boss to schedule one of the PB conferences in a place like Vancouver, Calgary, or Winnipeg (my favorite).
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#329437 - 04/08/13 04:08 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Yellow Jacket, you put it much milder than I would have. That's why I kept quiet. I would have had to moderate myself. Some people just shouldn't own animals.
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#329439 - 04/08/13 04:48 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
FireIsHot Offline
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Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3875
Loc: Emory TX
Scott, I have a very good buddy who I think is a tad rough on his dogs. One dog in particular bothered me because of this, so I used the magic of Cheetos to keep her close to me when I was there. Several years ago I saw trouble coming so I shared a bag of Cheetos with her to keep her out of trouble. To this day she comes running when she sees me, because she knows she's getting a snack.

I truly think the problem with knuckleheads like the one in the first video is that they look at dogs as objects, and not a living thing. I would be more than happy to correct his behavior in the same manner as he did his puppy.
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#329442 - 04/08/13 05:28 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: FireIsHot]
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
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Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 6692
Loc: Michigan
Fire, I think she knows she is getting more than a snack when you come by wink

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#329444 - 04/08/13 05:44 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: catmandoo]
FireIsHot Offline
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Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 3875
Loc: Emory TX
JKB, so am I. I wish I could tell her that.
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#329457 - 04/08/13 06:32 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: esshup]
Yellow Jacket Offline


Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 141
Loc: ACE Basin, SC
Originally Posted By: esshup
Yellow Jacket, you put it much milder than I would have. That's why I kept quiet. I would have had to moderate myself. Some people just shouldn't own animals.



I'm new here and didn't want to offend anyone or the guidelines here.

I would love to tie chickens to his neck for a week.
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To Hell with Georgia...

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#329458 - 04/08/13 06:35 PM Re: Not Jumping to Conclusions [Re: FireIsHot]
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
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Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 6692
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: FireIsHot
JKB, so am I. I wish I could tell her that.


I think you already did! smile

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