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#32826 04/30/06 06:59 PM
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Hurricane Rita took out a center-piece tree from my place leaving a large hole in the ground. Since I believe when life gives a lemon it's best to make lemonade, this weekend I turned the hole in the ground into a micro-pond for exotics.
You can view the hole in the ground at this link and I'll post final pond picture there later:

http://www.meadowlarkponds.com/gardens.htm

The pond is about 1000 gallons and it will have a waterfall circulation system. It will contain Pacu, Texas Rios, Tilapia, TGG, Gambusia, and the golden native BG.

My question, for anyone with micro-pond experience, is will the waterfall circulation be sufficient or will this small system need aeration also? I'm not currently planning on aeration, but will add if it is needed. Thanks for any responses.

#32827 04/30/06 07:44 PM
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Meadowlark,

The water fall should be more than enough. A system with a skimmer contains a basket for falling leaves, foam filter and your pump is best. This system eleminates the problem with the pump becoming clogged. I would suggest a 15 gph pump and a standard "Biofalls" unit for your water fall.

Flow for the water fall to be a good looking display is 1500 gph per foot width of water fall. I can put together more information if you would like.

How deep is this hole?

#32828 04/30/06 07:45 PM
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That was a pump that produces 1500 gph NOT 15gph...I was typing too fast.

#32829 04/30/06 09:09 PM
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Cary,

I made a slight math error...looks like at least 1500 gallons total. The maximum depth is about 23 inches and it is roughly circular and about 12.5 feet in diameter. Yes, any info appreciated. Thanks.

#32830 04/30/06 09:11 PM
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I will put it together tomarrow and email it to you.

#32831 04/30/06 09:13 PM
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"Tomorrow"...getting late and eyes are blurry!

#32832 05/08/06 09:34 AM
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ML- I have never mentioned here, but I'm gonna own up to it. I have two ponds in my back yard here in Midland. They both have biofalls, skimmers and filters. They circulate at 3000 gallons per hour. The fish I have in them do great and the waterfall supplies a lot of oxygen. One thing to watch out for is evaporation. One pond has an automatic water fill, which is great, and the other one doesn't. With the waterfall and hot weather we tend to add water a couple of times per week to the one that doen'st have it. I have koi in mine and some rosey red FH. We have one koi we raised from a fingerling that is now like part of the family. We are thinking about bringing a bass or two back from the Zephyr pond and put in one of them. Good luck with yours.


In Dog Beers, I've had one.
#32833 05/08/06 10:06 AM
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 Quote:
Originally posted by heybud:
ML- I have never mentioned here, but I'm gonna own up to it.
Heybud,

Heck, a pond is a pond, is a pond...all of them are good no matter the size.

I was interested in your comment about adding water. I either have a leak or a lot evaporation. This weekend we had several families over for a birthday party and everyone was outside including the dog...a 70 pound black and tan hound. This dog is accoustomed to swimming freely in all the ponds so she decided to take a dip in the micro pond. It was funny at first and everyone laughed but now I'm wondering if her claws have punctured the liner because we have noticed a fall in the water level. Oh man, if I have to do that liner all over again with all those rocks in place...I may be looking for some clay instead.

Can you estimate the amount of evaporation? per week or per day?

I installed a 1500 gph pump and it really does move the water but a waterfall would seem to add to the evaporation rate and a 70 pound dog with claws crawling out of the pond just may also add to the problem. :rolleyes:

#32834 05/09/06 06:44 AM
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ML - Wild guess would be my small pond which is about 350 gallons looses maybe 5% to 10% per week. Problem I have is that a realatively small loss puts the water level below my skimmer and the pump is in the skimmer. My liner is 45 mils and has rock on it. I'm sure a dog with sharp claws could probably puncture it, but it would be hard. My dog is 125 lbs but luckily he hates water' It has a 25 year guarantee.


In Dog Beers, I've had one.
#32835 05/09/06 11:14 AM
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ML cool site! I had a small ornamental pond less than 1000 gallons here in Las Vegas. During the summer I would stop the waterfall via a bypass valve, due to the 6 - 8 inches of evaporation a week. (100 degree plus days) When the waterfall was bypassed and the water was recirculated on the waters surface evaporation was cut by about half.

#32836 05/09/06 12:27 PM
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B&G,

Thanks. Wow, 6 to 8 inches would seem to eliminate the need to exchange 20% of the water every two weeks. I suspected that the waterfall would substantially increase evaporation. Thanks for that info.

When you bypass the waterfall, do you just put the filtered water back on the surface of the pond?

#32837 05/09/06 12:52 PM
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ML,

If you are replacing water in order to maintain quality, I don't think the water you replace due to evaporation counts toward the total. Only the H2O evaporates, all the dissolved waste stays behind. That makes sense right?

#32838 05/09/06 01:07 PM
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JayMan,

Yes, that sure does make sense. Not having any experience with a micro-pond, I probably assumed incorrectly. I have a filter which removes wastes, reduces ammonia by nitrate processes, and uses UV to kill algae...but I guess I should still replace a % of the water routinely?

#32839 05/09/06 01:51 PM
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Yes, that is what is recomended for aquariums. I think it is 10% a week but it varies with fish load, filtration type, etc. I am sure there is a number of fish you could keep and never have to change any water i.e.the pond is in balance with the natural and artificial filters. However, it is probably better safe than sorry.

#32840 05/09/06 06:35 PM
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When I fill my pond a couple of times a week I use city water which has chlorine and have not lost any fish. I'm sure if you add too much it will kill them. I have a biosystem which acts well removing unwanted substances. There is very little maintainence with the systme I have. It was expensive but worth it.


In Dog Beers, I've had one.
#32841 05/09/06 07:12 PM
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ML
Yes when I bypassed the waterfall, a pipe 3-4 inches under the surface would force the water from the filter up to the waters surface. This would agitate the surface a little and create a little current.

As far as water changes. A micro pond is like a giant Aquarium. Get yourself an aquarium test kit Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate.
You Will want to monitor the ammonia and nitrite for the first couple of months. Low levels are normal in a new aquarium, but if their levels spike do a partial water change (20 - 30%). By keeping your original numbers of fish to about 50% of carrying capacity and not overfeeding you shouldn't have any Ammonia or Nitrite spikes.
Once your micro pond is "cycled" Usually 4 - 8 weeks the amonnia and nitrites will disappear and you shouldn't have to worry about them much as long as you don't overfeed or add too many fish at once. Eventually, You will just check for Nitrates. Nitrates are an indicator of water quality and will tell you how often you will need to do a partial water change. It really depends on the biological load you put on the amount of water in your micro pond. Good luck and keep us posted!

#32842 05/10/06 08:45 AM
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B&G,

Thanks much for that info....now a question...what is considered a safe fish carrying capacity (in pounds of fish) for such a micro-pond? Assume its 1500 to 1700 gallons. I'm not wanting to push the limits, but looking for a "lazy" approach which requires minimum management and adequate margins.

#32843 05/10/06 11:38 AM
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ML-Always happy to try to help.
The rule of thumb in the aquarium biz is 1 inch of fish per gallon max. Most of the exotics you plan on using probably average around 10-12" full size right? (texas Rios, Tilapia, GG, Golden BG) the exception is the pacu. (3ft+) I myself would not recomend pacu in a micro pond because eventually just a few of these behemoths will exhaust your little ponds carrying capacity. Unless you have a plan for them once they reach a large size. (donate to city aquarium or eat them) Keep us posted!

P.S. Will your winter temperatures support the pacu? I guess not if the Tilapia die each winter. If the pacu don't survive winter temps, you might be fine with just a year of growth.

P.S.S. Another possibility might be to heat such a micro pond in the winter to keep the fish through the year. I am sure there are pond heaters for ornamental ponds. These might be able to keep your pond at acceptable temps for your exotics year round.

So many possibilities! Bring on any other questions and keep us posted with the progress.

#32844 05/10/06 12:38 PM
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B&G,

Yes, the Pacu will die unless I have an overwintering capability in place by about Oct. 1. I'm working on that also.

From just a quick look it seems to me that a heater for this outdoor micro-pond would be very expensive on a recurring basis compared to an indoor overwintering capability.

My objective with the Pacu is to study it for a possible grass carp replacement in my ponds, in the manner of Tilapia, i.e. stock them in spring, let them eat vegetation during the growing season, then harvest them before they die in fall. The trick for this to be effective, I think, may be to grow the Pacu inside until temps warm and they reach a size where they can really effectively consume weeds. I like grass carp but see a lot of undesirable characteristics in them...always looking for a better way.

The Rios,GG's, and golden BG will all do fine in there during the winter....except the Rios may have low temp problems, but that is part of the test also.

If I can't get the overwintering capability in place, I will still get some time in on observing the Pacu's behavior.

Thanks again for your info. I'll use that rule of thumb (one inch per gallon).

#32845 05/10/06 07:02 PM
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I know you like the fighting ability of the tilapia, but, we caught a 4 pound tilapia and a 4lb 4oz and 4lb 8oz pacu in a half hour stretch and I will tell you that there is a world of difference. The pacu is a horse plus it jumps and is very good eating. These were stocked at 1 3/4" in Mar 05. The pacu eat almost anything, from plants to plastic. Hard to catch.


1/4 & 3/4 acre ponds. A thousand miles from no where and there is no place I want to be...
Dwight Yoakam
#32846 05/11/06 08:24 AM
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Rad,

Thanks for your response. I love to read your (and Don's) views on various fish that most of us are not familiar with.

Do you think it is feasible to raise a few Pacu for a trial pond stocking in spring? Do you think they will control vegetation in a large pond?

#32847 06/05/06 08:40 AM
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To those of you interested in Micro ponds, this post is to provide the link to a picture of the finished product(first time to build one of these and DIY). You have to scroll down to the last picture, sorry.

The micro-pond is doing just great on the water circulation alone as Cary advised. No aeration. The fish thus far include 1 LMB, 1 F1 GG, 1 F2 GG, rosy reds, Gambusia, Tadpoles(ok not fish), gold fish and Koi. Many others yet to come. Just like in my ponds, the rosy reds (fatheads) are disappearing (only 5 left out of two dozen) and the Gambusia are increasing (10 fish with only 2 stocked).

http://www.meadowlarkponds.com/gardens.htm

#32848 06/05/06 10:30 AM
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The last time I looked, it was just a hole in the ground! That's a nice-looking finished pond, ML.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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#32849 06/05/06 07:22 PM
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Soon to be added to the micro-pond: Two humans (Male & Female), and Patron Margaritas.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

#32850 06/08/06 07:43 PM
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Sunil,

Sorry to disappoint you but the latest additions are red Pacu....beautiful fish...really neat....better than Margaritas. ;\)

Also I'm kind of excited to report that the Gambusia have had a full blown spawn and little tiny Gams are all over the surface...and rosy reds are down to only three remaining fish. The TGG and LMB are smiling.

Like Bz says, dang this pond stuff is fun!

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