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It seems that I have to put my dog training hat on again. Last year I beat my head against the wall trying to get Kate to retrieve reliably to hand, so I forked over the $$ and she went away to school for a few months.

Today she went into the pond to chase a pair of geese off of it, and after the geese flew away on the way back she noticed the Pintail decoy that I have marking the diffuser in the deepest part of the pond.

She veered off course a slight bit, grabbed it and kept on swimming. her progress was halted by the 5/16" nylon rope that was tied to the weighted diffuser. She tried for at least 5 minutes to bring the bird (decoy) to shore, doing a dog paddle in one spot. No matter what I did could I get her to let go of the decoy.

So, it was run for the boat and oars. Drag the boat 50 yds to the pond, shove it in and row out to her. She was still trying to swim for shore when I grabbed her by the scruff of the neck and hauled her into the boat. I couldn't yell at her for doing what she was trained to do, but I will have to work on "No, leave it" or "No bird" when it gets a bit nicer out.

I'll bet she was in the 40°F water for 10 mnutes total, and was shivering in the boat before we made it to shore.


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Wow, it was lucky you were there.


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Sure am glad that I don't use Dog's for utilitarian purposes.

I think of them as best friends, and not a Master/Slave rig.

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I learned my lesson a few years ago when I almost lost 2 of them in the pond. They went in to chase geese and couldn't climb out of the open hole in the ice that the diffuser made. Temps were right around zero with wind chills in the -20°F range. Long story short, it took them 20 minutes in a hot shower to stop shivering. A week before that the temps were 20 degrees warmer and one of them caught a grey barnyard goose that was swimming in the pond, climbed out of the open hole onto the ice and brought it to the house. (still alive and honking) Hup. Give. Good girl. No bird, hup. Then I let the goose go. Hup is their command to sit.

That's when I learned to move the winter diffuser close enough to shore so if anything went for a swim it could get close enough to shore to walk out. (after I almost lost both of them)

Now I go to the pond with the dog. Or if I let her out of the house without me going out, and she's not back in 4-5 minutes I'm calling her back. If she doesn't show up in a minute, she knows she'll probably be in trouble..... If she's back before I get my coat on and go outside, then she's safe. If not, well.... She gets picked up by the scruff of the neck and yelled at. She doesn't like getting yelled at with her feet off of the ground. I normally put the e-collar on her before I let her out. 1 is the lowest it'll go, 15 the highest. 6 or 7 is a tap on the shoulder that means Hey, I'm still here and you have to listen to me.

If she's not back in a minute after getting tapped, then the tap is at 10. Only once has she not beat feet for the door, and then I was out calling her with it on 6. I've clocked her at 28 mph with the ATV, and she can keep it up for at least a quarter mile to the back of the property, then turn around and do it back again to the door.


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Not master/slave, but she's got to listen to me. She's an inside dog, and spends more time on the bed than I care to admit. wink

I've seen a dog not listen to his owner when a bird flushed, and it took off after it. Bird flew over the road, dog couldn't, so it met the car that was going down the road. Unfortunately, the car won. That wouldn't have happened if the dog listened to it's owner.

She's never been hit or beat, the e-collar has never been high enough to make her yelp. When I lived in So. Cal., all my dogs yelped when they got hit with the collar on the highest setting. It was during a rattlesnake avoidance training, and doing that was a lot less cruel than to have them bit by a snake. My dogs were pretty smart, all it took was one time thru the course. They avoided the rest of the snakes after the first one. The training was done with live, defanged rattlesnakes.


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Wow you told me about this over the phone Scott. Glad she's O.K. But it is pretty cool that she was adamant on retrieving that decoy!

As you know my dog is ALWAYS on a walking lease as the highway is too close for comfort and she has no concept whatsoever of the danger of cars. As I probably told you when we first got her from the shelter she took off for the highway and stood there on the pavement looking around oblivious of the cars. Some dimwit woman on a cell phone never saw her and missed her by inches, and you know how visible my dog is with her size and the bright white and brown color! My heart skipped a bit and I held my breath when I saw the car bearing down on her.

When I was a kid I saw a dog get hit and it's hind legs crushed. It screamed in pain and tried to drag itself on the ground. I will never forget that or allow my dogs to be close to a situation where they could be hit. I have a hard time understanding people that knowingly let their dogs roam free near roads.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/26/13 10:51 PM.

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That's one thing that has to be watched. She's got a strong pred drive, so if something wanted to run across the road, I don't know if I could get her stopped in time. Luckily, the road isn't busy, and I don't let her near the road.


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Found my English bulldog a few years in the ice. He wasn't so lucky and my wife's still not over it. It was not fun to watch my wife run into neck deep frozen waters to try and save her dog..


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

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BGK, I'm sorry. I can't imagine how I'd feel if that happened to one of my dogs.

When my two were struggling in the open ice hole, I would have gone in after them, although I don't know if I would have made it back out. Just me and the dogs, nobody else around. The thought crossed my mind, and that was the last resort plan. 10' water depth, about 25' of clear 1"-2" ice betweem me and them. I ended up running to the barn, getting a long extension ladder and slamming it on the ice to break a channel most of the way to the dogs. I first tried putting it on the ice and walking on it, but the ice started to crack.

They were well trained, so I was able to call them to me and when they both tried to get up on the ice side by side, the remaining ice broke and they could swim in the channel to within a couple feet of shore. At that point I could grab them. The banks there are 2:1, so they still couldn't touch bottom. Right befor they got to where I could grab them, Dottie; (the one on the right in my avatar) as she was swimming, put her paw on top of Cal's head (the one to the left) and he went down under the water surface. I was able to grab her then and tossed her up on the bank. He still wasn't coming up, and I was to the point where in another few seconds I was going in. Then he came up. When I got him on the bank, his back was hunched up, and it seemed like he coudn't straighten it out. I knew he was colder than her becaues he was thinner, and he didn't shake himself off once on shore like she did. He just stood there looking at me, ice covering his head and water running off his fur...

I told them both to heel and had to tell Dottie "No Bird" because she still wanted to go back in the pond after the geese. I walked as fast as they'd let me to the house (100-150 yds away) and immediately threw both of them in the shower. I turned on the hot water and stayed in the bathroom with them monitoring their condition and the water temp until they stopped shivering. I figured if the shower water wasn't too hot for me, it was O.K. for them.

I toweled them off and neither of them seemed any worse for the experience. But, I knew that I had to watch them like a hawn when I let them out, and I knew I had to change the winter diffuser's position in the pond.

I had let them both out to go to the bathroom (about 3:00 p.m. and they weren't by the door to come back in like they usually were. They didn't come when called, so I put on my coat & hat and went out looking. When I rounded the corner of the barn and heard the geese honking in the pond I knew where they were.....

They're both gone now. Dottie died sudeenly one night. I heard the food bowl clank and I got up to see what was going on. It was her lying there. Cal was diagnosed with a heart murmur a year later and he lasted 6 more months.

Last edited by esshup; 03/26/13 11:58 PM.

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A friend of mine's Golden Retriever was fastened to a yard stake on a light chain. The dog broke loose and presumable went after a water bird in his pond. The chain got hung up on something and my friend found the dog swimming for his life and rescued him.

A few years ago I found a dog that had broken through the ice and died in my pond. That really scares me that it might happen to my dog so I keep as close an eye on her as possible and try to train her as best as I can to keep off the ice. I'm glad the ice is melting for the last time hopefully, and I won’t have to worry.


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Originally Posted By: JKB
Sure am glad that I don't use Dog's for utilitarian purposes.

I think of them as best friends, and not a Master/Slave rig.



I think this is a little shortsighted.

Many breeds were developed with specific "jobs" in mind, and it is a deep part of their nature to perform those "jobs."

I think a lot of dogs wind up in shelters and breed rescue programs because the owner wanted a companion dog that had the beauty or appeal of a particular breed, and did not anticipate the drive a dog may have because of its genetics.

In many cases, a purebred dog needs to be worked in order to be happy, and not letting them do so leads to chewing, barking, pacing, and all sorts of other social problems that are not good for dogs or families.

I have a German Shepherd, and he most definitely needs to be worked daily.

There is a truly beautiful bond that can develop between a dog, and the man (master) he is pleasing.

My cent and a half, FWIW.


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Smart dogs get bored easily and bad things happen if they are bored as Yellow Jacket said. I think we sometimes underestimate how smart our dogs actually are.

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Originally Posted By: Yellow Jacket
Originally Posted By: JKB
Sure am glad that I don't use Dog's for utilitarian purposes.

I think of them as best friends, and not a Master/Slave rig.



I think this is a little shortsighted.

Many breeds were developed with specific "jobs" in mind, and it is a deep part of their nature to perform those "jobs."

I think a lot of dogs wind up in shelters and breed rescue programs because the owner wanted a companion dog that had the beauty or appeal of a particular breed, and did not anticipate the drive a dog may have because of its genetics.

In many cases, a purebred dog needs to be worked in order to be happy, and not letting them do so leads to chewing, barking, pacing, and all sorts of other social problems that are not good for dogs or families.

I have a German Shepherd, and he most definitely needs to be worked daily.

There is a truly beautiful bond that can develop between a dog, and the man (master) he is pleasing.

My cent and a half, FWIW.


Very true YJ, poor choice of words on my part.

I just keep thinking of people I have known who keep them locked up in cages until they want something from them. That's what I meant by utilitarian, and the master/slave thing. I would never do that, and am sure no else here would either.

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JKB, I knew Reba's owner (Dam of Cal and Dottie) I liked her from the moment I met her. Her drive and desire to please was phenominal. I knew he was having problems with her listening (she was too smart for her own good) but he ended up selling her to a guy in Utah (I think). Well, he finds out that he's not what he says he is, and he keeps the dogs in kennel boxes on his truck. He takes them out to the wooods/field 2x day to run, and go to the bathroom.

He got her back and I got her from him. Her problem (if you'd call it that) is that God put her on this earth to retrieve whatever you shot. Period. That was what made her happy, and that's what she lived for. Pheasants is what really turned her into a single minded machine with no "off" button.

Remember I said she was smart?

Well the reason why he got rid of her is that she wouldn’t retrieve for him. (I didn’t hear this story until a year after I had her, and not from him.) In a field trial, they are supposed to sit when the bird flushes, either on their own or by whistle command. She knew that she couldn’t be chastised in a trial, so she got into the habit of “breaking” or not sitting down when a bird flushed in a trial. She'd be letter perfect in training, or when out hunting. When they break in a trial, it’s “thank you for running your dog – next!” and you get booted out of the trial for that day.

Well, she broke in a trial and retrieved the bird. He took her off into the weeds and beat the living crap out of her. In her mind, she got beat because she retrieved a bird and wouldn’t retrieve for him after that.

To make a long story shot, I never had that problem with her, in fact, I had to stop playing “fetch” in the yard (with a concrete driveway) because she wore her nails down so far they were bleeding and she didn’t want to quit. A professional trainer that was at a trial took me off to the side after a long retrieve and said “I’ve seen her retrieve for the other owner and now with you. You have to watch where you send her, and make sure you have an e-collar on her when you are not in a trial. I don’t know what you did, but she’ll kill herself going on a retrieve for you.”

He was right. She’d dive under water for birds if they sunk, and I had to stop her from jumping off of a 30’ tall boulder/cliff when we were hunting in the desert and a quail sailed into the canyon that was hit. I had to have her put down due to Cancer in 2003, and I still tear up when I write about her.

She was a house dog like all my dogs.


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Scott, now I'm sad too.

I guess the thing about a great dog is that they give you unconditional love, and we could all learn something from that.

It's good you have Kate. We were never emotionally able to replace our Rhodesian Ridgeback Zeke. He raised the bar to high.


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What really got me was Scott relating the idiot that beat the dog. Beating a dog is the fastest way to creating a screwed up animal. The only thing it accomplishes is they are now afraid of you. It's also something cowards do as a dog can't fight back.

I was hunting with with my dad and friend of his once. When his dogs didn't do what he wanted he would hit them in the head with is gun butt. That was the last time I ever hunted with that moron.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
What really got me was Scott relating the idiot that beat the dog. Beating a dog is the fastest way to creating a screwed up animal. The only thing it accomplishes is they are now afraid of you. It's also something cowards do as a dog can't fight back.

I was hunting with with my dad and friend of his once. When his dogs didn't do what he wanted he would hit them in the head with is gun butt. That was the last time I ever hunted with that moron.
I completely agree cecil. dogs are mans best friend. even when my sisters dog woke me up at 6 am I couldn't be mad to the point of wacking him one. The floor was cold and the couch just looked so nice. btw i'm a late riser unless their are fish involved I try not to get up before 9:30.


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SP,

Funny you speak of dogs that want on the couch you are sleeping on (unless I misunderstood). I used to have a very large dog that was part German Shepperd, Collie, and possibly Golden Retriever. She was so tall she could rest her head on the dinner table. Had to be the center of attention and was what they call a "dominant female." She marked her territory outside constantly. I think in her mind she was the owner and I was the pet. I know people that wouldn't tolerate that but I found it very endearing.

Anyway, I took her on a camping/fishing vacation with me to Massachusetts while the wife was in Germany with students. I kid you not, as soon as I started to unzip the tent door she would force her way in and lunge for the cot. And of course refused to move. Of course I could have made her get down, but i thought it was hilarious I had a dog that refused to sleep on the floor. Somehow we both fit on the cot but I'm not sure how.

I'm looking at a picture of her on the cot right now. If I can remember to have the wife scan it I will post it here.

BTW she also had her own personal couch in the house. Spoiled rotten but I wouldn't have wanted it any other way.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/27/13 08:57 PM.

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Cool story cecil bet that dog kept you warm at night they're just like little heaters aren't they or in your case big heaters. I'd love to see the picture, and yes you understood right the couch Is where I sleep, by choice.

Last edited by small pond; 03/27/13 09:14 PM.

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Esshup's story reminded me of something that happened when I was a teenager and I felt I should post it.In southern NJ it isnt all that often we get ice on our ponds and lakes and few folks understand the dangers.Well one winter things had frozen over and my friend down the street took his dog for a walk in the sand pit where we hung out after school.This day in particular I was late because I brought my BB gun and had to wait for my parents permission(for the gun),when I arrived I found Bear but Jimmy was nowhere to be found.At the time I didnt think anything of it as he used to go under the fence and run there all the time.I just walked him back to the house and knocked looking for my friend,his mom answered,saw the cold wet dog and automatically knew something had happened.She was hysterical and possibly because of my age at the time but I still expected Jim to come walking out of one of the trails looking for Bear but I called the police anyway.It wasn't until I walked the police back to where I had found Bear that I realized what had happened.For some reason the dog ran onto the ice and tragically he decided to go after it.

To this day I still cant understand why he ran after that dog because he knew of the dangers.

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Robert, my condolences.

Speaking of furniture. Reba's previous owner kept her and the other dogs that he had in kennels outside. Shade, good conditions, he cleaned the kennels every day and they came out and had freedom in the back yard after he came home from work. His wife wouldn't let any dog in the house. Period.

Reba, before he got her as a IIRC 6 month old pup, was housebroke by the breeder, Julie Hogan. She went to school with Julie and was a house dog as a pup. When she went to field trials, with the previous owner, of course in the vehicle she was either in the dog trailer or the kennel. But, at the hotel she was up on the bed at night.

When I got her, she became a house dog again. The first night I remember her looking at me in the bed as if to say "can I come up?" Nope, you've got your own dog bed right there girl. She wouldn't get up on the furniture or the bed unless you called her up.

First trial I took her to, I no sooner opened the door to the the hotel room, opened her kennel door, and she bolted for the room, and immediately just about jumped from the threshold up onto the bed. No asking, no hesitation. She knew that if she was on the road, the bed was fair game. Remember I said she was smart? laugh She got no arguments from me. laugh


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here's a pic of the couch hog.


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HA! She's giving you the evil eye too.


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If you take that dog's picture again, I do believe it is going to bite you...


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I don't think that dog is gona be giving me that kind of look anymore he recently got tudered and turned into a completely differet dog. notice the difference between the pics.


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