Pennsylvania has in my opinion very pathetic trespass laws and the wardens do not enforce them for the most part. Unlike in Virginia where game wardens or conservation police officers as they are now known have the ability to enforce almost all state laws. In Pennsylvania, game wardens and fish wardens are more restricted in what they can and cannot enforce. Pennsylvania is also weird in that they have separate agencies for fish and game. They have the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission and the Pennsylvania Game Commission. In the past there has been a push to merge them, but as of yet, it hasn't happened. So there are actually specific game wardens and specific fish wardens. They will work together during each other's busy seasons though. For the most part though, they are separate entities.
Pennsylvania has two major trespass laws relating to pond/land owners. They are covered in section 18 Pa.C.S. § 3503: Criminal trespass.
The major ones are:
Subsection (b.2) Agricultural trespasser. (1) A person commits an offense if knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so he: (i) enters or remains on any agricultural or other open lands when such lands are posted in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the person's attention or are fenced or enclosed in a manner manifestly designed to exclude trespassers or to confine domestic animals; or (ii) enters or remains on any agricultural or other open lands and defies an order not to enter or to leave that has been personally communicated to him by the owner of the lands or other authorized person. (2) An offense under this subsection shall be graded as follows: (i) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) constitutes a misdemeanor of the third degree and is punishable by imprisonment for a term of not more than one year and a fine of not less than $250. (ii) An offense under paragraph (1)(ii) constitutes a misdemeanor of the second degree and is punishable by imprisonment for a term of not more than two years and a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000. (3) For the purposes of this subsection, the phrase "agricultural or other open lands" shall mean any land on which agricultural activity or farming as defined in section 3309 (relating to agricultural vandalism) is conducted or any land populated by forest trees of any size and capable of producing timber or other wood products or any other land in an agricultural security area as defined in the act of June 30, 1981 (P.L. 128, No. 43), [FN1] known as the Agricultural Area Security Law, or any area zoned for agricultural use. Defiant trespass is committed when an individual enters a property in defiance of some communication that states he is not allowed to do so. Such communication may be a "Do not enter" sign or a barrier clearly designed to exclude intruders such as a fence.
The other is Defiant trespass Subsection (b). It is a third-degree misdemeanor.
As I said, PA's trespass laws are a joke... Try calling the State Police in a rural area and get them to one respond and two, charge someone with trespassing, even when you have them dead to rights on well posted ground. My cousin is a state trooper in rural PA. They can barely keep up with serious calls for service let alone dealing with land owners throwing a hissy over someone fishing in their pond.
wow cjb you know alot about law. i can imagine that they do have a hard time keeping up. our neighbor has a police scanner and it's amazing how much crap those people have to put up with. for example the other day someone called the cops because there was a kid about my age riding a motorcycle in his own yard without a helmet in a secluded area. he probably should've been wearing a helmet but seriously why can't people mind there own buisness.
small pond, CJ is a police officer, from PA but serving in VA.
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
I don't have a any problems on my property because I live here and I'm here most of the time but never say never. I did find some trash under my pier and thought, "Oh crap someone was here!" Turns out it was my dad and he had found some trash that had blown off the highway and he shoved it under the pier as he was in a hurry to go somewhere. Boy was I relieved!
One thing I have going for me is I have a friend and good taxidermy customer that is a local LEO. I know if I have problems all I have to do is call him and he will take care of it.
He's even protective of my fish at the local high school recirculating tank as he told me they were having a security drill at the school one night and the other officer's were freaking out the fish by shining flashlights in the tank. He told them to knock it off as they were stressing my fish.
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/13/1308:56 AM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
small pond, where is your pond? Mine is in Acosta, PA. in Somerset.
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
small pond, CJ is a police officer, from PA but serving in VA.
A big thanks needs to go out to CJ for taking the time to post that information.
I also had to chuckle a his very early post when he mentioned "land mines" , knowing that he was an officer. He knew at that point its an uphill batlle, but we can never give up!!!!!!!!!!
He said that the DNR only got involved if they were hunting or fishing with permission. If someone was just on the property, then I had to call the sheriff.
Confused by this, but thinking it might be a typo?
ZEP- peolpe just like to walk and investigate, especially when they have no property of their own, or very little. Once they start walking, they find things to do. They also talk freely about what they see with anyone else. Word of mouth advertising, you might say. I also blame satellite maps. You can't tell me that most people don't "snoop" around to see what in their neighborhood, available to anyone.
true fish n chips it's a shame
One tool you may use is when you catch someone on your property is whip out your cell phone and start taking pictures and videos of them. Some people are intimidated by having their picture taken while breaking the law. The pictures could help with law enforcement and if it ever came to court. It's a complicated puzzle and usually no one thing will completely solve it.
Yes, this is what I do, when it's possible, and its good to bring it up for others to know that its a good thing to do. Some will be scared off by it, and others might get confrontational. Always be prepared.
heres what the pond looks like from the rr tracks where all of the scum can see it. any sugestions on how i can make this less noticeable.
Can't really see the pond. You can see the dam, eh? Maybe I'm not seeing the photo properly. Can you see your setup/pond from your house? If so, I don't think I would put the bushes up like we talked about earlier. It's better to see your pond and what going on. With bushes, folks can use them to hide from your line of sight. This is only the case if you can see your pond from your house. If you can't see the pond from the house, then it might be a good idea to disguise the dam somehow from the view of the RR tracks.
edit-looks like you still need to get the signs up along that property line too.
heres what the pond looks like from the rr tracks where all of the scum can see it. any sugestions on how i can make this less noticeable.
Can't really see the pond. You can see the dam, eh? Maybe I'm not seeing the photo properly. Can you see your setup/pond from your house? If so, I don't think I would put the bushes up like we talked about earlier. It's better to see your pond and what going on. With bushes, folks can use them to hide from your line of sight. This is only the case if you can see your pond from your house. If you can't see the pond from the house, then it might be a good idea to disguise the dam somehow from the view of the RR tracks.
edit-looks like you still need to get the signs up along that property line too.
No I can't see the pond from the house. that was an old picture from around november but the property is heavily posted now.
heres what the pond looks like from the rr tracks where all of the scum can see it. any sugestions on how i can make this less noticeable.
Took me a minute to find the pond.... My eyes were focusing on all the trash left behind. Good luck catching them if no-one is around to watch.
If you want to make it less notice-able (or less preferable to the trespassers)camp right in that spot where they can see you. If you can't, let some of your buddies fish and camp. Even bring in some of your trap shooting buddies to shoot the "clay pigeons" at different times of the day (or week).
Trespassers and thieves are like bullies, If they think there is a chance they will get hurt, they will back off and go somewhere else.
And also, they could be HOBO'S jumping off the train to cook a chicken they just "found". Kinda like a theme on the Andy Griffith show.
Best advice, post the full perimeter of you property with the bright yellow POSTED signs. Every 75 feet or so should do, but I would put them even closer if you can. Place a few well hidden trail cameras to capture evidence and go from there.
Best advice, post the full perimeter of you property with the bright yellow POSTED signs. Every 75 feet or so should do, but I would put them even closer if you can. Place a few well hidden trail cameras to capture evidence and go from there.
Simple and to the point. In TX, it's required that the signs be 100' apart in timbered land and 1000' apart in open land. 75' sounds good to me. Also, according to the penal code, livestock fencing or purple paint is enforced as no trespassing notification. I would go with the signs.
thankyou all for your help and thoughts but i have one more question we just posted the small portion of our land where the pond is we have sighns every 40ft around the pond will this be okay we didn't want to post the whole property just the pond.
we just don't wan't want them in the area of the pond there is nothing else on our property of intrest and we couldn't care less about plain woods. the sighns are not just around the pond we now have a section of the property posted is this good or to be legal does every thing have to be posted.
Different states have different laws. Here's my take on it.
If it were my property, I'd post the whole property. I don't want trespassers on my land. Think of the bigger picture.
What would happen if someone was on your property and got injured? Would your parents be open to a lawsuit by that trespasser? Could they use the argument that "They only posted the area around the pond, so I thought it was O.K. to be on their property!"
When ever I have inquired, they tell me the whole perimeter has to be posted. Mainly because the trespassesrs could claim they come in from another area and never saw them.
Besides that, they have even tried to get me to be responsible for posting in places where the public comes in at raodways, even though I do not own that property. I think they are just trying to "pass the buck" and I don't follow that advice. I have a power line that cuts thru the property and with this type of easement, like your RR tracks, it seems to give people the idea its ok to follow the pathway and trespass.
