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#32310 08/25/03 01:03 PM
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We cleaned out a pond on our farm that was silted in. Dug about 10 ft. out and the pond when full is around 15 ft in the deepest part.Its around 1.5 ac when full,now with no rain its down about 4ft. The bottom and sides are red clay whit no cover so there is no grass or organic matter in it . Water is clear from treating with gypsum powder.
Can we put a windmill type aerator in the pond now and not hurt anything? Stocked with channel cats and sunfish and a few bass. Although we have yet to see any of the bass. Seen post below that mentioned care in starting up the system.

#32311 08/25/03 03:55 PM
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Lots of people question turning on an aerator 24/7 particularity this time of year. I use a surface aerator all summer and go to the bottom diffuser in late september. You could have some problems turning it on now so i would gradually acclimate your pond and fish to the diffuser slowly. I'm sure Cecil and others could give you specifics but i turn my diffuser on 4 hours/ day to start and work up to 12 hours by adding an hour per day. I do this slowly just to avoid an agressive mix all at once. I don't know about Cats and Bass and the effects of turning it on and leaving it on, but on trout you need to make sure that the temps don't become to warm. Also, if you are using a windmill to provide the power it will be a challenge to manage the time. One of the experts will post as well and give you a much better answer.

Jeff

#32312 08/25/03 04:42 PM
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I wouldn't recommend beginning an aeration plan with a bottom-type diffuser this time of year. If your pond has stratified (cooler, denser water on the bottom with no oxygen), you'd be flirting with disaster by trying to mix the water this time of year. I have limited experience with using aerators, but I do know of one lake that has significantly improved because of the diffusers. The diffusers are turned on during early April and continuously run through mid-October. There is always the possibility that your pond would be O.K. if you went ahead and got things started now, but I would take the conservative route and wait. I would definitely get one installed but not now.



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#32313 08/25/03 05:39 PM
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I went to a seminar here in central Texas a couple of years ago and the biologist made a good point. He said that if there is enough wind to turn a windmill, then there is enough ripple on the water to get the oxygen required for the fish. Water can only hold a very small amount of oxygen even if you shoot it up 100 feet and let it fall back. Of course he was an Aggie from Texas A&M so take it from there... ;\) . Anyway he said windmills for oxygen was sort of an effort in futility.

#32314 08/25/03 09:18 PM
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Just because one is a biologist, it does not mean you are wise. He could have passed college courses with C's or even D's.

Wind across open water will mix some "air-borne" oxygen into water with wave action. But how deep will it mix the oxygen into the water? That is the question to be answered. Typically, oxygen dissolved into the surface water will only mix down into the top stratified layer. The deeper, unmixed cooler layer is where the oxygen loss occurs. If this deoxygenated zone is large and it upwells to the surface warm layer, it can degrade the surface water quality enough to kill fish.

The bottom diffused aeration weather by windmill or electric compressor is designed to move the deoxygenated water up & out of the deep zone and to the top warm, illuminated layer where the water can be degassed and reoxygenated.

PS.... Most of the dissolved oxygen in a pond or lake's oxygen budget is produced by plant photosynthesis not wind action. Air is only about 20% oxygen, whereas oxygen produced by plant action is basiclly pure oxygen. More efficient gas transfer. Either way oxygen is relatively insoluable into water as compared to say carbon dioxide or hydrogen sulfide.


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#32315 08/26/03 09:49 PM
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So what is the offical time table on Areating a pond you never areated before. We have an Old pond (8 or more years old) that has never been areated. Should we just wait till Fall and begin with a bottom diffuser consistently? it is appox .7 Acres with the deepest part being 8-10 feet. Water clarity is about 24-32 inches. currrently stocked w/ LMB and BG.

#32316 08/27/03 06:32 AM
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This may be splitting hairs but is there a difference in in oxygen generation by different types of plants? I have no plants in my pond (never have had) and no electricity available for aeration. In the spring, we have numerous cloudy days with no wind so windmill aeration doesn't appear to be an answer. I fertilized the first couple of years and had springtime DO crashes with fish deaths. I didn't fertilize this year and had no losses. However, the pond is very obviously less fertile with less successful minnow and bluegill spawns. Northwest Texas rain cannot be called reliable and right now the water is 5 ft. low. Submerged plants will be left high and dry. I am looking for a safe, reliable answer that doesn't become a problem and don't want to have to micromanage the situation. I also don't want to use chemicals unless there is no other solution.

#32317 08/27/03 07:33 PM
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Dave- Bill is as good as it gets so get his opinion. But with LMB and BM i would let her rip and not worry about it if he says it is ok. All i can tell you is that with Trout it is a NO NO this time of year, as you will mix the warm and cool water and have a mass loss of fish. Listen to Bill and Cecil they will lead ya the right way. I would do as they say and go slow. I am really curious "Bill" about he density of 02 in a mill devise vs. wave action. I always thought that the only way that a windmill would work is if the wind blew when you needed it most. Ya need to believe in the Almanac to use that syatem. Best of luck and all please keep this discussion going. I was even thinking about putting in a mill for looks only, but also as supplemenatal 02.

Jeff

#32318 08/27/03 10:05 PM
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Not all oxygen producing water plants are big enough to get tangled on your fish hook. Most oxygen production in pond/lake by plant photosynthesis is primarily by microalgae that is basically invisible as single plants suspended in the water column. Usually tens to hundreds of thousands of them PER OUNCE of water! Each making oxygen during daylight. Collectively they can impart a color or hue to the water; usually, but not always, some shade of green, ie. green water. Heavily vegeatated underwater areas/beds when present can also produce lots of DO into the water.


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#32319 08/27/03 10:13 PM
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Windmill aerators are usually not strong enough to rapidly mix or destratify a medium to large pond. BUT, I would not bet my fish populations on the windmill not being able to cause a fish kill. Malibau Water Resources says it can happen.

With the w.mill you have little control on how much or long it will mix and destratify unless you install in the airline a tee with diversion or relief valve.

If you value your fish, ALL AERATION SYSTEMS SHOULD BE STARTED SLOWLY IN THE BEGINNING WHEN THE POND IS STRATIFIED. Better safe than sorry!


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#32320 08/28/03 09:29 AM
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 Quote:
Not all oxygen producing water plants are big enough to get tangled on your fish hook. Most oxygen production in pond/lake by plant photosynthesis is primarily by microalgae that is basically invisible as single plants suspended in the water column. Usually tens to hundreds of thousands of them PER OUNCE of water!
And just to prove it, Bill was kind enough to do a survey of what I thought was close to 'dead' water in my pond after a sudden weather change last year and what looked to be a complete die-off of my 'bloom'. Here are the results from what appeared to my naked eye to be darn near clear water:

Numbers in cells per milliliter unless noted
CYANOPHYTA - CYANOBACTERIA -Bluegreen algae
Oscillatoria angustissima 23,978
PICOPLANKTON 1-2um dia 1871
CHLOROPHYTA - Green algae
Ankistrodesmus falcatus 346
Ankist. spiralis 554
Carteria sp. 69
Coccoid unicell greens 633
Francia ovalis 69
Pteromonas sp 1178
Treubaria setigera 2287
CRYPTOPHYTA
Cryptomonal erosa 218
CHRYSOPHYTA - Golden brown algae group
Mallamonas sp 2694
MICROFLAGELLATE 69
BACILLARIOPHYTA - Diatoms
Cyclotella 207
Nitzschia acicularis 69
Nitzschia sp 69
Synedra delicatissima 73
Synedra tenera 207
TOTAL CELLS /ML 34,591 or 1,023,894 per ounce

Suspended detrital particles 0.1-1.0 um dia 426,750/ml
Susp. det. part. 1.0-5.0 um dia 133,360/ml
Total Susp. detrital particles 560,110/ml or 16,579,256 per ounce

On a related note: During the blackout a week of so ago I did not have a batery back-up aeration system for two of my indoor minnow tanks, both with about the same density of fish. One tank is filled with tap water and the other with water from my pond. Neither tank has any multi-celled plant life. Both get partial sun each day with the pond water tank having a slight green tinge. The tap water tank, (Exceedingly clear) had an almost complete die-off of the cool water minnows and the other tank had zero loss. The only thing I am able to surmise is that the microalgae in the pond water tank produced enough O2 to keep the fish alive.


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#32321 08/28/03 08:48 PM
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Pottsy is correct. The tank with the light green tint contained lots of oxygenating microalgae. Microalgae (attached & suspended) can produce lots of oxygen IF there is sufficient light. Without sufficient light they can do the opposite and CONSUME oxygen. Also if they die or are KILLED the tremendous bacterial bloom that quickly develops to decay the microalgae consumes even more oxygen than the microalgae did.

AN ADDED NOTE ABOUT HIS PHYTOPLANKTON SAMPLE DESCRIBED ABOVE. His water clarity or visibility was about 4 feet. Think how many more microalgae will be in water with clarity of 12" to 24"!


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#32322 09/10/03 03:24 PM
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Bill Cody - well said on all posts. Algae's value is vastly underrated - it is at the bottom of most food chains, found in all types of water, captures more energy of the sun, and produces MOST of the earth's oxygen.

For all - Worthy of note is that many fish can easily survive destratification - especially in deeper waters. The small increase in temperature is not nearly as harmful as the lack of dissolved oxygen. An exception can be in shallower reservoirs, where there's more chance of greatly increasing the bottom temp. Note that there are some fish that can be harmed by a slight increase, so it's good to research what you have.

The best method of increasing levels of dissolved oxygen at lower depths is gentle circulation. I recommend the SolarBee - and not just because I sell them... they can circulate water in a reservoir from any desired depth (operator adjustable in the field) increasing DO both by surface renewal and via increased photosynthesis. They are solar-powered, so no need for electricity, operate from sunup to sundown, low maintenance, 25 year life span, and can be rented before being purchased.

Check out www.SolarBee.com.

Best Regards,

Michael


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