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#323001 02/22/13 09:33 AM
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Hello. I am planning on adding several pvc/bucket habitats to my pond.

I am going to be doing this in Missouri in March when it will possibly be freezing at night.

I am reading about the quikrete curing in 3-7 days. i would like to use regular quikrete for less cost.

I am planning on doing this on the bank of the lake. Will it be sufficient to pour the concrete in the buckets and allow it to sit for 3 or 4 days with it possibly freezing at night and then put them into the water?

I realize i could use the "fast set" stuff but it is more than double in cost.

Thoughts?

Thanks

Andrew

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You can put the buckets in the water the next day. It doesn't cure completely for 9 months but it doesn't matter in most cases. As soon as it get hard you are good to go. Actually concrete sets stronger if it is covered by water. Cheaper is way to go.


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kenc, isn't it also slightly exothermic?


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Thanks kenc. I read about that but i wanted to make sure and get opinions on it from "the experts" first!!

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I have done that with no problem.
















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Scott, I had to look that word up. The only way I could begat any heat(besides sweat) working with concrete is to have Dolly P. helping me mix it. Are you trying to be smart with me? Remember you have the hunting rifle so big you have to put wheels through the stock to get it in the woods.


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Just buy portland cement and mix with sand or fine gravel from the parking lot. We don't use any gravel, just a mixture of a few types of cement and sand is cheaper. The gravel/stone isn't needed for sticking cement to PVC. Sakrete is selling you the sand and pea gravel with about 5 pounds of cement per 60# bag. 60-80# bags of portland cement go a long way for under 10 bucks.

If concerned about frost, cover unit bases with straw for a few days. Good to go!

Last edited by Peepaw; 02/22/13 10:34 AM.
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Originally Posted By: kenc
Scott, I had to look that word up. The only way I could begat any heat(besides sweat) working with concrete is to have Dolly P. helping me mix it. Are you trying to be smart with me? Remember you have the hunting rifle so big you have to put wheels through the stock to get it in the woods.


They call that a cannon!

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Peepaw, have you seen a picture of his gun?


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No ken! I really thought that concrete created a bit of heat when it was curing due to the chemical reaction.

Actually, it's not THAT heavy. It's 12.5# with scope, bipod, sling and loaded magazine. But, that's the beauty of it, you don't have to walk far with it. The bullet does the walking for you. grin

Found it:
Q: What precautions do I have to take during cold-weather concreting?

I am a contractor involved with a variety of concrete projects including commercial buildings, residential foundations and flatwork, as well as pavement and curb and gutter. The projects are located in a northern climate. I must ensure that provisions taken for cold weather conditions follow acceptable industry practice to assure a quality finished product. When should I be concerned about cold weather placement conditions and what practices should be used to achieve quality results?

A: Cold weather concreting is a common and necessary practice, and every cold weather application must be considered carefully to accommodate its unique requirements. The current American Concrete Institute definition of cold-weather concreting is when the air temperature has fallen to, or is expected to fall below 4°C (40°F) during the protection period.

Rule number ONE is that ALL concrete must be protected from freezing until it has reached a minimum strength of 3.5 MPa (500 psi), which typically happens within the first 24 hours. In addition, whenever air temperature at the time of concrete placement is below 4°C (40°F) and freezing temperatures within the first 24 hours after placement are expected, the following general issues should be considered:
(1) Adjustment of construction schedule regarding loads imposed on the new concrete structure.
(2) Placing and curing temperatures to produce quality concrete.

The exposure of concrete to cold weather will extend the time required for it to gain strength. In structures that will carry large loads at an early age, concrete must be maintained at a minimum of 10°C (50°F) to accommodate stripping of forms and shoring and to permit loading of the structure. In many cases, achieving the required durability will require a protection period of more than 24 hours. This may not be an issue with residential applications where applied loads are typically small and may be applied in small increments over several days or weeks.

In no case should concrete be allowed to freeze during the first 24 hours after it has been placed. Since cement hydration is an exothermic reaction, the concrete mixture produces some heat on its own. Protecting that heat from escaping the system may be all that is required for good concrete quality, while more severe temperatures may require supplemental heat. More information is available from the following references:
1) ACI Committee 306, Cold-Weather Concreting, ACI306R-10, American Concrete Institute, 2010, 30 pages.


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Concrete is exothermic, but it will most certainly freeze when freshly poured. In this application, I doubt that there would be any problem, but great pains are taken to keep fresh concrete from freezing in most commercial ventures.

(My Parents owned a concrete company....I've been precast manager, batchman, truck driver, mechanic, and finisher...) I don't miss those days at all.


oops...sorry Scott!

Last edited by sprkplug; 02/22/13 10:43 AM.

"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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This is a bucket guys, not a driveway or anything that needs to be tested. If the edges freezes it is no big deal. You can still pour concrete in freezing weather, they put anti-freeze in it. Peepaw has a good idea if you have free sand. Otherwise sand costs more then sakrete. Scott,here you have to hunt deer with buckshot so many hunt them with a 10 ga. double barrel that weights a ton.


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No bridge work here, just some sticky stuff to get hard.
Straw will keep in enough of the heat generated from the curing process over the first night. For fish cribs, have at it soon thereafter!

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Originally Posted By: kenc
This is a bucket guys, not a driveway or anything that needs to be tested. If the edges freezes it is no big deal. You can still pour concrete in freezing weather, they put anti-freeze in it. Peepaw has a good idea if you have free sand. Otherwise sand costs more then sakrete. Scott,here you have to hunt deer with buckshot so many hunt them with a 10 ga. double barrel that weights a ton.


You said it!

Do they make a 10 gauge in semi-auto with an extended clip for a little bit of an edge?

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PeePaw I see what you are saying about portland cement. With that in mind i don't have access to any sand. I thought the easiest way to go would be to use the quikrete. I have a honda element, the pond way out in the middle of the farm, and only a couple 2 or 3 days to work on them and get them in the water.

Do you think the combination of buying sand and quikrete portland cement will be less expensive than buying regular quikrete?

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They make a rem. auto with regular magazine but after you shoot a 10 a couple of times you are ready to check various body parts.


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I remember bridge work......inspectors in the batch plant as well as on the jobsite, slump tests, taking test cylinders for future breakage, hot loads, citical time interval between loads....

Nah, pouring it in a bucket pales in comparison!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Portland cement, sand, and/or gravel is almost always cheaper than sakcrete.... but it's more work.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Tony, in the big box stores sand costs more then the cheaper bags of concrete.


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I take for granted living here in northern Illinois, I was told the sand/gravel mecca of the state, sand is free everywhere.

The sand/aggregate is this case is only being used to fill volume. You can mix cement and water and it will work for this just fine, but uses to much cemnt to fill a good bucket.

Get creative here, I know it's winter but scrape a few buckets out of a gravel drive, lot or shoulder. most stores sell broken bags of everything super cheap, see what you can find.

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It doesn't have to be all cement in the bucket. When I did my buckets, I threw plenty of rocks in along with the cement. You just need enough cement to hold it all together.

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Ok that makes sense guys. So even if i use the easiest method of getting bags of quikcrete I will mix some more gravel in with it. maybe i could put the rocks in the bottom of the bucket to help take up some of the space and save that way. I may go the route of the portland cement. Would it work to just use the portland cement with gravel only and no sand?

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I guess there's an issue here that I never considered, that being the Big Box Stores. Never, in a million years would I entertain the idea of purchasing common sand in a bag....box store or otherwise. I would take my pickup and a shovel down to my local quarry or aggregate supplier, back up to the pile and throw it on. If I needed a larger amount than what I wanted to shovel, I would flag down that fellow in the giant loader, and have him/her use the very corner of the bucket and drop some in the bed. I've done it many times myself, for customers at my folks' operation.

Cross the scales on your way in, then cross em' again on your way out and pay for the difference.....extremely cheap, for any amount you need.

Of course, I am of the mindset that says living in the country and having land/ponds requires the ownership of a pickup....and not a pretty boy truck either....one that works for a living! grin


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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The quarries don't want to sell to small trucks here anymore. You have to load it yourself and they have a set price around 30 bucks.


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so what's the verdict on mixing portland cement and no sand, just gravel from the road?

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