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#322972 - 02/21/13 10:40 PM Seeking AERATION Advice
Mackie Offline


Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 9
Loc: NW Ohio
I am seeking suggestions on aeration of our pond. We purchased our property last winter, and the pond on the property is 280-300 yards from our home (electric source). It is a 3/4 acre pond and approx 14 ft deep. Was dug approx 20-30 years ago, and has never had any type of aeration, dye, etc put in it.

We seem to have healthy fish. 18-22 inch LM Bass and good size sun fish as well. And 5-6 channel cat that we have seen. There is very minimal algea/vegitation growth. The pond has raised banks and wind moves the surface of the water quite a bit on its own.

But oh the black muck is aweful! And after swimming in it this past summer we definately have a thermocline as well.

My question is since the pond seems to be doing a pretty good job of maintaining itself, can we simply use a windmill aerator? It would not create as much water movement or bubbles and an electric compressor, but I dont think that we need anything extreme. And since the pond is on a hill 5 out of 7 days of the week there is a strong breeze moving.

Or if we do go with an electric compressor, would it be best to run power to the pond, or keep the compressor at our house and run air line to the pond? At the moment we do not have any other intentions to construct or add anything else to the pond that would require electricity.

Just looking for some simple advice smile Thanks in advance!


Attachments
Winter 12-13.jpg (344 downloads)



Edited by Mackie (02/22/13 01:48 PM)

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#322974 - 02/21/13 11:14 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
blair5002 Offline
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Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 694
Loc: Sask, Canada
Welcome to the forum. You have found the right place for your ponds future. 400 yds is a long way to run power to your pond. A windmill probably would be a good option if you have no desire to have power pondside for any other reason.
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#322975 - 02/21/13 11:24 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Mackie Offline


Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 9
Loc: NW Ohio
Thank you for you imput! The wind mill was our origional plan... and after doing a bit of research might be the most cost effective as well.

My only fear is that the pond has been self maintaining for a long time, and really doing a nice job of it, so a second question I have is would there be any 'risks' to aerating it?

It has only been used as a pond for fishing, which is our primary use of it as well, but we would like to be able to do some swimming.

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#322978 - 02/22/13 12:02 AM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Mackie Offline


Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 9
Loc: NW Ohio
Specificaly any risks to aerating with a wind mill since you do not have the control (ie. timers) that you would with electric?

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#322985 - 02/22/13 07:43 AM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Bluegillerkiller Offline
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Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 3536
Loc: Illinois, St. louis area
What kind of budget you got for this project? Windmill would be inefficient unless your in the open with 10mph sustained winds I'd just save your money until you could afford diffuser aeration..
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I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

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#322990 - 02/22/13 08:05 AM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Ted Lea FOREVERGREEN Offline
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Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 969
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PM Sent and Welcome aboard !

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#322991 - 02/22/13 08:17 AM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Lovnlivin Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1508
Loc: Eagle, NE
Hey Mackie, hopefully the aeration experts will chime in but I've learned (from PB of course) that the biggest risk in aerating would be inadequate aeration, to the point of better not to than to do it incorrectly. The downside with the windmill for aeration is that DO is at it's lowest just before sunrise and the winds usually diminish in the evenings, if DO is a concern. Echoing your comment on lack of control (timers).

I too will be interested in what the aeration experts have to say since your pond is so exposed to the winds and water movement.

Regarding electricity, I realize 400 yds is a long distance but if running a few power poles is an option, you would be surprised how often electricity will come in handy at the pond, especially if you plan on spending family and fishing time out there!

Here's a comment on a recent post regarding a new pond: "The pros here will be able to guide you in the right direction for what you need to look for and do. I bet one question they will ask is what would be your goal of what to expect back from your pond? Fishing, swimming, types of fish you like, etc.?

It's better to do nothing until you have all the facts. Too many of us are impatient like little kids and go overboard and find out later we messed up....Have fun....... Jim"

I couldn't agree more as I was one of those "impatient" ones!

Good luck Mackie!
_________________________
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https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0
(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES

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#322992 - 02/22/13 08:19 AM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Lovnlivin]
Lovnlivin Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1508
Loc: Eagle, NE
Originally Posted By: Lovnlivin
Hey Mackie, hopefully the aeration experts will chime in but I've learned (from PB of course) that the biggest risk in aerating would be inadequate aeration, to the point of better not to than to do it incorrectly. The downside with the windmill for aeration is that DO is at it's lowest just before sunrise and the winds usually diminish in the evenings, if DO is a concern. Echoing your comment on lack of control (timers).

I too will be interested in what the aeration experts have to say since your pond is so exposed to the winds and water movement.

Regarding electricity, I realize 400 yds is a long distance but if running a few power poles is an option, you would be surprised how often electricity will come in handy at the pond, especially if you plan on spending family and fishing time out there!

Here's a comment on a recent post regarding a new pond: "The pros here will be able to guide you in the right direction for what you need to look for and do. I bet one question they will ask is what would be your goal of what to expect back from your pond? Fishing, swimming, types of fish you like, etc.?

It's better to do nothing until you have all the facts. Too many of us are impatient like little kids and go overboard and find out later we messed up....Have fun....... Jim"

I couldn't agree more as I was one of those "impatient" ones!

Good luck Mackie!



Well, they beat me to it while I was typing.

PB rocks!
_________________________
Keith - Still Lovin Livin

https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0
(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES

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#323028 - 02/22/13 11:10 AM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Sue Cruz Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 709
Loc: Pompano Beach, Florida
Hi Mackie~ From what I have seen in action, windmill aeration is very sporatic. You get some good bubbles going, then they stop. Few more, then nothing. I would be interested to see on going water quality data before windmill aeration and on going to see how effective they really are... I'm not knocking it, I just don't know. Electric is definately more dependable and can be counted on to destratify, raise dissolved oxygen and decrease muck if properly sized. You don't have to run electricity to the pond. You can have your cabinet at the house and run 1" PVC to the edge of the pond. If installed this spring, by summer your pond will be a much more pleasant swimming hole. Not that the muck will be gone by then, that could take a few years, but it will circulate the water and in turn release any bad odors caused by built up gases on the bottom. Your pond will quickly become a much healthier ecosystem.
_________________________
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Vertex Water Features
www.vertexwaterfeatures.com


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#323037 - 02/22/13 11:40 AM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Mackie Offline


Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 9
Loc: NW Ohio
We could afford to install an electric aeration system. Just debating whether we can get the same results on a smaller $ with the windmill. The windmill systems I have costed would be near $2200-2500 by the time they are complete. Koenders 24 ft, single diaphragm is the system I was leaning towards.

Can anyone using a Windmill system chime in? I have seen a lot of discussions on them, but the people commenting all seem to have some sort of electric driven system, or are pushing towards one (and there could very well be a reason behind that:))

As far as the purpose our pond serves us it is mostly for fishing LMBass. But we will occassionaly swim in it the few hottest weeks of the year. (And the swimming is really the majority of the reason we are looking into aeration, to make that a bit more enjoyable. Its no fun up to your knees in black sludge!)

I feel like the more research I do, the more I can not decide!

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#323039 - 02/22/13 11:41 AM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Mackie Offline


Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 9
Loc: NW Ohio
Is there away for us to measure the wind movement @ the pond this year, to make a more informed decision next year?

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#323042 - 02/22/13 12:05 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
blair5002 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 694
Loc: Sask, Canada
How much do you think it would cost to run power to your pond. Like Sue said you could run PVC under ground and pump the air from your house. Just have to make sure it's deep enough the condensation doesn't freeze. I have a koenders windmill and it got wrecked in 100mph wind storm. Then I ran power and bought a vertex system and would never think of going back. The windmill was way undersized for my lake of course but the moral of the story is research, research, and more research before you decide. If it were me I would run power to the pond because I am into lighting and bug light feeders and waterfall features. You have alot of options with power there and if you buy a windmill you might be farther away from affording what you really wanted like I did. All depends what you are into.

This kind of goes against my first post but I got lazy. Sorry!!!
_________________________
"I think I have a nibble" Homer Simpson

34ac natural lake




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#323045 - 02/22/13 12:20 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Mackie Offline


Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 9
Loc: NW Ohio
What type of water quality data can we collect to help us determine what our pond may or may not need? DO of course, but anything else?

The water in our pond is pretty clear, not a whole lot of silt/sediment. I would say the thermocline is 4-5 ft below the surface. The pond if filled strictly with rain water.

Let me know any other info that may be helpful.

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#323049 - 02/22/13 12:28 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Mackie Offline


Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 9
Loc: NW Ohio
blair5002,
Before your wind mill came down, it was preforming? I know they will not preform to the extent of and electric system, but it was making a difference in you ponds quality?

Thanks again guys for all the help!

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#323052 - 02/22/13 12:41 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Bill Cody Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12619
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
There are hand held wind meters. You can buy them on ebay where I bought mine which can borrow free of charge if you buy a new battery for it. Windmills require more maintenance compared to an electric air compressor system. I have had both for 23 yrs. Ted Lea Forevergreen has both types of aeration systems.

From your picture it apprears the pond is shaped quite a bit longer than wide which indicates you should have two diffussers to get mixing at both ends. The windmill mixes only a small or partial length section of my small long narrow 0.3 ac pond (60x220ft pond size).

One can bury 1200 ft of black irrigation pipe (3/4"-1", most frequent is 1/2") as an air delivery tube from the power source to the pond. Larger diameters of air line cause less pressure and flow loss for long tubing runs. For long 1/2" dia air lines over 400ft a higher pressure compresssor is required. Compressor size, pressure rating and air line size are usually sized according to the systems needs.


Edited by Bill Cody (02/22/13 09:20 PM)
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#323053 - 02/22/13 01:09 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Mackie Offline


Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 9
Loc: NW Ohio
I have added a few aeriel photos of the pond... shape and distance from house. The pond is south of the house... keep in mind that the pond is on quite a bit of a hill, so the trees really stop no wind from hitting the pond.

Bill, I think your pond size is very similar to ours, so this is great advide!


Attachments
Pond 1.png (366 downloads)
Pond 2.png (375 downloads)



Edited by Mackie (02/22/13 01:23 PM)

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#323056 - 02/22/13 01:24 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Sue Cruz Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 709
Loc: Pompano Beach, Florida
You can do an electric system for less than you said the windmill cost (equipment only ~ not power run). I think one diffuser in the center would do the trick, or you can have two.... Ted sent you a PM, what did he suggest? As Cody stated, he has a windmill and several electric units.
_________________________
Sue Cruz
Vertex Water Features
www.vertexwaterfeatures.com


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#323057 - 02/22/13 01:26 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
blair5002 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 694
Loc: Sask, Canada
Not that I could tell but it was way undersized for 34acres. Most people up here run them with good success on isolated ponds.
_________________________
"I think I have a nibble" Homer Simpson

34ac natural lake




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#323058 - 02/22/13 01:27 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
esshup Offline
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Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
I have a client that has a couple of those windmill aerators, plus a couple of their electric cabinet aerators.

He also has a pond that only has a windmill aerator on it. It winterkilled last year.

I know that winterkill isn't a problem for you but just letting you know what happened because of the weather conditons. We had fog and heavy overcast for almost 2 weeks straight, and very little wind.

He also has a windmill going to another pond, with an electric diffuser in the pond as well. The diffuser that is run via the windmill has an open hole during the winter that is 50% or less of the electric diffuser. Same diffuser is at the end of the hose on the windmill as on the end of the hose from the electric compressor. He also pushes air 900' to one of the ponds via windmill.

I'd trench in the 1" air line and go electric if it was my pond.
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#323065 - 02/22/13 01:55 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Mackie Offline


Registered: 02/21/13
Posts: 9
Loc: NW Ohio
**correction*** Just spoke with my husband on the phone... I could of swore he said 380 yards to the front of the pond. Turns out is only 275 to the center of the pond. Sorry about that everyone... I am slightly embarassed.

I think that if we go with the more effecient electric system we will actually get more use out of the pond. Going to research cost of burying electric vs burying air line.

Thanks so much! You have been great help!

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#323066 - 02/22/13 02:04 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
RC51 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 4237
Loc: Arkansas
There is of course a fine line to this statement below.

"I've learned (from PB of course) that the biggest risk in aerating would be inadequate aeration, to the point of better not to than to do it incorrectly."


I don't totally agree with this. If you have a pond that has a D.O. problem and it's bad enough I would have to say ANY air at that point would be better than nothing. Cause nothing is going to get you dead fish! I have even read of guys turning on their boat motors to help turn the water to get some D.O. in it. I believe there is some merrit to under aeration long term, but there is a fine line for this and your situation.
_________________________
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!

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#323068 - 02/22/13 02:07 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
blair5002 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 694
Loc: Sask, Canada
Buy the self weighted airline no matter what system you buy.
It sinks to the bottom of the pond making install a breeze.
_________________________
"I think I have a nibble" Homer Simpson

34ac natural lake




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#323070 - 02/22/13 02:09 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: blair5002]
RC51 Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 4237
Loc: Arkansas
Originally Posted By: blair5002
Buy the self weighted airline no matter what system you buy.
It sinks to the bottom of the pond making install a breeze.


No doubt about that. Weighted line is the way to go for most folks! I used weighted line took all of about 10 minutes to row out to the pond and drop my setup into the water and bingo I had air!!



Edited by RC51 (02/22/13 02:10 PM)
_________________________
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!

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#323071 - 02/22/13 02:13 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: blair5002]
Bing Offline
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Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 1616
Loc: Fayette County Illinois
Originally Posted By: blair5002
Buy the self weighted airline no matter what system you buy.
It sinks to the bottom of the pond making install a breeze.


If you don't buy weighted hose first you will later.
_________________________
"I love living. I have some problems with my life, but living is the best thing they've come up with so far." Neil Simon,

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#323073 - 02/22/13 02:28 PM Re: Seeking AERATION Advice [Re: Mackie]
Sue Cruz Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 709
Loc: Pompano Beach, Florida
Actually under aerating can be worse than doing nothing. If you don't aerate, chances are you have some dissolved oxygen in the top layer of your pond. Granted, you run the risk of a turn over if it rains, but atleast there is some livable space near the surface. If you underate, you mix the bad water with that surface layer with out enough force to bring oxygen levels up and bam! You have low oxygen top to bottom. We are conducting a case study from a lake on the west side of FL. The lake owners installed an undersized system and not only killed every living organism in the lake, but also birds were killed and people were sicked by the gases released. We had to come in and accurately map the lake, triple the aeration, and go gradually. We have some GREAT data from this project.
_________________________
Sue Cruz
Vertex Water Features
www.vertexwaterfeatures.com


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