I have been reading the forum for some time and as a new pond owner it has been an invaluable resource.
I thought I would try to give back a little bit and share the beginning stages of my pond monitoring project. I think I have only seen one other thread with any discussion of continuous computerized pond monitoring. But there were no systems posted just dicsussion of cost, etc.
The first stage I am implementing is water level monitoring. The basic system uses an ultrasonic proximity sensor specifically MaxBotix. This sensor sends ultrasonic pulses and measures distances with a resolution of 1mm! This is of course located at the pond with a long Cat6 cable running to the garage that serves as a UART connection to an Arduino UNO that is in turn connected with standard ethernet to my PC.
Samples are taken frequently (approx every 2-3 seconds) and then an average is computed for each 10minute block. Here is a link to a chart with today's test run. Test began at 11AM and ended at 4PM. At approx 1:45PM I turned on my well and began filling the pond. The X axis is time and the Y axis is millimeters BELOW full pool.
As you can see before the well was turned on the reading remained steady varying only by 1mm. And after the well was turned on the level steadily climbed. Also the rise stopped briefly from about 2:30PM to 3:00PM. I believe this pause in water level rise was caused because I use the same well for household water as the pond. I devised a system that will automatically shunt water where it is required. So if someone in the house was using the shower/dishwasher/laundry etc. The pond will not recieve water until the household demand is finished.
Anyways I still need to devise a weatherproof enclosure and run much longer term tests. Is this a project that PB members would be interested in seeing updates on and more detailed specs/code? If so let me know.
Some random ideas for additional metrics
1. Water temperature at different depths 2. Link the height monitoring to my well system. And mantain pond height with precision - automatically compensate for evaporation losses. 3. Continuous PH monitoring. About $100. http://atlas-scientific.com/product_pages/sensors/ph-sensor.html 4. Continuous DO monitoring. About $200. http://atlas-scientific.com/product_pages/sensors/do-sensor.html 5. Link DO monitoring to aeration system. 6. Water clarity. Shine a bright LED and have a sensor(s) in the water. Based on brightness recieved calculate clarity.
Additional Pictures: Arduino In Garage The breadboard on the left is a separate project.
I don't have an engineering or programming background but I have always enjoyed each as a hobby. If anyone is ever that interested I would be willing to post full code/parts list/specs, etc.
Makes sense now. There are few engineers on here (JKB) has chimed in on several threads using parts such as these. I think it would be wise to list the parts.
Arduinos are simple to use and program. There are lots of codes for them too already existing. I can see why you chose them.
Makes sense now. There are few engineers on here (JKB) has chimed in on several threads using parts such as these. I think it would be wise to list the parts.
Arduinos are simple to use and program. There are lots of codes for them too already existing. I can see why you chose them.
This is really interesting, and I think many would enjoy this developing further. I know a few people have posted interest in Arduino stuff and would like to get more user input.
I have looked into Arduino, and it's good for hobby type controls, but that is about it! Never bought any, and never tried it. It's a hobby platform for messing around with things that are not critical!
As long as you keep it on the hobby level for fun, things should be cool!
Not to hijack a thread but... any thoughts on a long-range wireless thermometer to monitor the temperature of the pond? I wanted to drop a temperature probe off of my dock and send the temperature to the house which is 300+ feet away. I tried one of these which is supposed to transmit "up to" 330 feet away but it didn't work. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EM79VC/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01
Makes sense now. There are few engineers on here (JKB) has chimed in on several threads using parts such as these. I think it would be wise to list the parts.
Arduinos are simple to use and program. There are lots of codes for them too already existing. I can see why you chose them.
This is really interesting, and I think many would enjoy this developing further. I know a few people have posted interest in Arduino stuff and would like to get more user input.
I have looked into Arduino, and it's good for hobby type controls, but that is about it! Never bought any, and never tried it. It's a hobby platform for messing around with things that are not critical!
As long as you keep it on the hobby level for fun, things should be cool!
I have used it in some labs of my engineering classes. It is very handy.
Monitoring your DO monitor to your aeration system is an intriguing idea.
Esshup was wondering about this a few months ago. There is a thread about it. I'll look for it later today.
Fun stuff!
If you look at the Atlas Scientific probe it would be quite easy. The probe gives DO readings over a Serial connection. You would just need a relay and use that to control the aeration system.
Very good ideas. I am just beginning to learn the wide world of analog and digital inputs for plc's. There are some out there on the market that come with the software (Siemans) but I only use Allen Bradley at work and software is expensive. The Siemans plc's can be purchased for as low as $250. You just have to have your control power planned out and probley want to make sure you buy the expandable model for increased analog capability. This will allow specific readings as temp, DO, ph, conductivity, level....oh CRUD, I am NOT going to get any work done next week because I am going to be researching instrumentation probes for this now!
If you look at the Atlas Scientific probe it would be quite easy. The probe gives DO readings over a Serial connection.
The biggest drawback, is the sensor cable is only 30" long.
Originally Posted By: chesrae
You would just need a relay and use that to control the aeration system.
A bit more to it than that. You can use a relay if it is rated for motor loads, but life will be shortened.
These will work with up to 1/2 hp motors at 120VAC: 871 Relay Life will be short, to about 1000 cycles (on/off) I wouldn't go that high with them, 1/4 hp, maybe!
Use a power relay similar to this if you want to run motors: Power Relay Yeah, they look ugly!, but will last quite a bit longer.
I will be using the 871's with 4 small compressors set up in redundant fashion.
Motors 1/4 hp and up, that run continuously, or I need certain performance from them, will get one of these: PowerFlex 40
It would be interesting to see how you have your well/water system set up.
Very good ideas. I am just beginning to learn the wide world of analog and digital inputs for plc's. There are some out there on the market that come with the software (Siemans) but I only use Allen Bradley at work and software is expensive. The Siemans plc's can be purchased for as low as $250. You just have to have your control power planned out and probley want to make sure you buy the expandable model for increased analog capability. This will allow specific readings as temp, DO, ph, conductivity, level....oh CRUD, I am NOT going to get any work done next week because I am going to be researching instrumentation probes for this now!
Glad to see another control guy here I was getting lonely. Maybe we can talk shop! (no one will have a clue)
If you look at the Atlas Scientific probe it would be quite easy. The probe gives DO readings over a Serial connection.
The biggest drawback, is the sensor cable is only 30" long.
This actually shouldn't be a huge deal. I have had great success with very long serial connections over cat6 cable. You can also run the needed 5VDC over Cat6. And if if there is some failure rate you can request readings far far faster than you need them.
Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: chesrae
You would just need a relay and use that to control the aeration system.
A bit more to it than that. You can use a relay if it is rated for motor loads, but life will be shortened.
These will work with up to 1/2 hp motors at 120VAC: 871 Relay Life will be short, to about 1000 cycles (on/off) I wouldn't go that high with them, 1/4 hp, maybe!
Use a power relay similar to this if you want to run motors: Power Relay Yeah, they look ugly!, but will last quite a bit longer.
I will be using the 871's with 4 small compressors set up in redundant fashion.
Motors 1/4 hp and up, that run continuously, or I need certain performance from them, will get one of these: PowerFlex 40
This is the relay I am using for well control and In general much prefer a mechanical one unless for very small loads. This relay is a bit different since it's coil voltage is 120VAC but it is what I needed for the well system. Since you obviously know more about it than I do you care to comment on the appropriateness of the choice?
Originally Posted By: JKB
It would be interesting to see how you have your well/water system set up.
This post is getting a bit long. I will talk about it below.
I would love to do the same, but my limit is the 1000' from the house plus no power. I may be renting a small excavator this summer to enlarge a small garden pond that my son popped the liner on and add an inflow drain pipe to the pond and cutoff some farm tile... I may run some electric down to the pond at the same time. If I do, I will also route some optical fiber so I can get data down there. I would love to have a web cam so I can check the pond during stressful times at work. Having a depth monitor to tie into my weather station would be cool to measure evap rates in the summer.
It would be interesting to see how you have your well/water system set up.
I only have one well which provides all household water. It was imperative then that I not interrupt regular water usage. I also needed whatever modifications I made to the system to be easily reversible as it would be under constant tinkering (I can't resist). And if there was some malfunction in my design or code (I am an amateur) and I was not home it needed a simple shut off point to return to stock operation.
Originally my well system was very simple well->check valve->pressure switch->pressure tank->house plumbing. I placed a T between the well and before the original pressure switch that runs PVC to the pond. This line has a 120VAC solenoid valve and a check valve.
I ran 120V to well house from my shop. There is an easily accessible switch that can disable all 120V to the well house. This is important as turning this switch off completely disable any mods I have made.
There is an AVR based circuit that is connected to a 4-20ma pressure transducer that monitors pressure in the house. It also controls the 120V via a small solid state relay.
The 120V is also connected to a mechanical relay that controls the 240V to the well.
The mechanical relay and traditional pressure switch are wired in parallel.
1. I turn on 120V with switch in shop. 2. AVR program reads pressure transducer. If within acceptable range it will close the circuit on the 120VAC. 3. With the 120V circuit closed the solenoid valve opens allowing flow to the pond and the large relay closes turning on the well. 4. The AVR continuously monitors the pressure transducer. 5. Once the house PSI has fallen just below the cut-on PSI of the pressure switch. The AVR disables the 120V closing the solenoid valve and the mechanical relay sending water to the pressure tank. 6. Once the house PSI has risen just below the cut-off pressure of the pressure switch it closes the 120V circuit again sending water back to the pond. 7. When the 120V is shut off with the switch the pressure switch takes over and the pressure tanks reaches full charge and the well is turned off.
Importantly because the 240V well switches are in parallel the well never shuts off. The household can use water just as normal as the house is always given priority. The ultimate test was turning the system on and not telling anybody -- nobody noticed.
I still need to tie this system into the rest of my automated house stuff especially the pond height monitoring system that I started this thread with.
Last edited by chesrae; 01/26/1310:55 AM. Reason: Added a really bad Paint schematic of system
I would love to do the same, but my limit is the 1000' from the house plus no power. I may be renting a small excavator this summer to enlarge a small garden pond that my son popped the liner on and add an inflow drain pipe to the pond and cutoff some farm tile... I may run some electric down to the pond at the same time. If I do, I will also route some optical fiber so I can get data down there. I would love to have a web cam so I can check the pond during stressful times at work. Having a depth monitor to tie into my weather station would be cool to measure evap rates in the summer.
Well 1000ft is probably too long for anything but fiber. That would be a future-proof solution as well. I am looking forward (or not) to seeing how much depth I am really losing on 100+ degree July days.
Hey guys I came across a few things that might be of interest while searching for some home automation products. Seeing this waterproof temperature system reminded me of the discussion going on here. Some pretty cool stuff on this site!
If you look at the Atlas Scientific probe it would be quite easy. The probe gives DO readings over a Serial connection.
The biggest drawback, is the sensor cable is only 30" long.
Originally Posted By: chesrae
This actually shouldn't be a huge deal. I have had great success with very long serial connections over cat6 cable. You can also run the needed 5VDC over Cat6. And if if there is some failure rate you can request readings far far faster than you need them.
I read the "fine print" on the DO sensors and control board. If you add 1 more inch to the cable length, you will get false readings. They are tuned into the specifications.
Need to be careful with voltage signals
Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: chesrae
You would just need a relay and use that to control the aeration system.
A bit more to it than that. You can use a relay if it is rated for motor loads, but life will be shortened.
These will work with up to 1/2 hp motors at 120VAC: 871 Relay Life will be short, to about 1000 cycles (on/off) I wouldn't go that high with them, 1/4 hp, maybe!
Use a power relay similar to this if you want to run motors: Power Relay Yeah, they look ugly!, but will last quite a bit longer.
I will be using the 871's with 4 small compressors set up in redundant fashion.
Motors 1/4 hp and up, that run continuously, or I need certain performance from them, will get one of these: PowerFlex 40
Originally Posted By: chesrae
This is the relay I am using for well control and In general much prefer a mechanical one unless for very small loads. This relay is a bit different since it's coil voltage is 120VAC but it is what I needed for the well system. Since you obviously know more about it than I do you care to comment on the appropriateness of the choice?
Same thing I posted except it is a 2 pole power relay. Should work fine!
Originally Posted By: JKB
It would be interesting to see how you have your well/water system set up.
This post is getting a bit long. I will talk about it below.
I read the "fine print" on the DO sensors and control board. If you add 1 more inch to the cable length, you will get false readings. They are tuned into the specifications.
Need to be careful with voltage signals
I am reading that as a prohibition against lengthening, especially with jumper wire, the signal wire length from the probe itself to the small circuit that preforms the actual measurement. I was referring to the length of the serial connection from the small circuit board to the house which should be able to be pushed quite high as a 0-5v serial interface would tolerate at least 1.5 volts of voltage drop. I have a 100ft run that experiences a voltage drop of 5v to 4.9v and works fine. Of course the small sensor circuit could not be more than 30 inches from the probe.
Continuous monitoring of a pond with consistency is difficult.
The organisms in your pond will quickly foul sensors and blow out the accuracy of your readings. Temperature is easy, but the rest will keep you busy figuring out how to keep your sensors clean.
Continuous monitoring of a pond with consistency is difficult.
The organisms in your pond will quickly foul sensors and blow out the accuracy of your readings. Temperature is easy, but the rest will keep you busy figuring out how to keep your sensors clean.
Exactly!!!
You can get self cleaning sensors, but they ain't cheap!
I read the "fine print" on the DO sensors and control board. If you add 1 more inch to the cable length, you will get false readings. They are tuned into the specifications.
Need to be careful with voltage signals
I am reading that as a prohibition against lengthening, especially with jumper wire, the signal wire length from the probe itself to the small circuit that preforms the actual measurement. I was referring to the length of the serial connection from the small circuit board to the house which should be able to be pushed quite high as a 0-5v serial interface would tolerate at least 1.5 volts of voltage drop. I have a 100ft run that experiences a voltage drop of 5v to 4.9v and works fine. Of course the small sensor circuit could not be more than 30 inches from the probe.
Am I missing something that you saw?
That was it! Most people would like to measure various depths. The cables on my sensors are 5 meters. They make them to 15 meters, but then again, these are current. Current signals, like 4-20ma will go about 1000 ft. I installed a Flowline LU27 ultrasonic level sensor on a farm pond north of here. We used direct bury wire and ran it 325 feet for the 4-20ma signal.
I have these going on my recirc. tanks: Flowline DL10 I only have (1) now for playing with. For backup level, I'm gonna toss these on: IFM-Efector KQ6005
I have a bunch of reed type level switches that I can use for backup, but like the fancier ones.
I usually don't mess around with serial stuff unless it's RS485, which will go about 4000 feet. I can't use any type of comm's or signaling that is not, shall we say, "rated for reliability". RS232 is pushing it at 30 feet. Voltage signals are pushing it at 100 feet. TTL pulse trains may go further, but no one uses that much anymore.
Next spring, I have to install a couple ultrasonic level sensors on an 8600 acre lake. I'll be testing out a couple wireless transmitters that are non-line of site and have a range of 5 miles. It will be interesting to see how well they work. I know tests on one that was inside a factory, the signal was picked up quite well 3 miles away thru an industrial district. A bit on the pricy side, but I ain't paying for it
I'm reading and learning. Most of this is still a a foreign language, but I'm picking up bits and pieces here and there.
Quick question about a temp sensor. If you're reading ambient temps, could a bad sensor be spliced in if the length of the cable was kept the same, and the connection was soldered together?
I've got an aftermarket temp sensor (indoor/outdoor and it also runs the A/C compressor) in the car and the display went bad. It's about a 3 hr. process to take the whole car apart to run a new sensor, but only about a 1 hr job to replace the display if I could splice it.
I was getting lonely. Maybe we can talk shop! (no one will have a clue)
