Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss Labels??

Maybe someday we will be star worthy.

I was a shop teacher so my grading consisted of how much skin the student left on his project. The stars go on the papers I think but don't know for sure as I never got any while I was in school.

I think the stars relate to lhe level of caution that should be used when interpreting a poster's statements. More stars = greater caution.

Nice work Dudley !!!! I like that type of logic !

Stars were once a system of peer voting. It became a bad problem causing discourse and many opted to turn off their individual rating (no stars showed). They were disabled a few years ago so no longer an option. Like Dudley says don't pay attention to them.

Thanks, Eric! I decided that the forum is not quite ready for the stampeeding kangaroo story.

I've put off writing this for some time now, but in light of Eric's recent post, perhaps now is the time. I mean no disrespect by what I say, nor are my comments intended to be judgemental, or critical of anyone, or PondBoss in general. This is just a personal observation, and one man's opinion.

Eric mentions the discourse caused by the peer-reviewed star rating system in years past. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I interpret his comments to mean that, in effect, it divided the membership in some way. Maybe it had the effect of establishing a hierarchy of sorts, or even went as far as to suggest a type of popularity club. I don't know, as I wasn't here.

But that brings me to the issue at hand, that being the "Hall of Fame", designation. I grew up the son of a Baptist preacher. I used to joke that I went to church more than I went to school. And in nearly every church that I can recall, there hung a message board on the back wall, or in the foyer, that contained a few relevant statistics. Things such as attendance, or prayer requests were displayed so everyone could see them. Along with the offering....which is the reason I feel compelled to write this.

In every church I have ever visited, I have never seen one that listed the members of the congregation by name, who had contributed to a particular Sunday morning's offering plate. To do so, would be contrary to the doctrine practiced by most, which holds that all are welcome, and equal, irregardless of social or economic status. Publishing the names of those who contributed would surely create a divide over time, segregating the parishioners, and becoming counter-productive to the intended goals.

I tend to explain my position by using a common example....a carryover from listening to my father preach so many times I suppose. And in this instance I am comparing the PondBoss Forum to a church...

Both try to operate primarily due to donations and support from the membership.
Both appear more concerned with covering operating costs, not so much turning a profit?
Both welcome people from all walks of life. Rich, poor, young, old, well versed in the particular doctrine, or just starting out.

The main difference in this case, as I see it, is a church has a simple motto: "Give what you can, IF you can"..and no one need know anything further about it. I realize that I'm probably the only one here who feels this way, but everytime I see that Hall of Fame designation, I see that message board on the church wall, with it's anonymous offering total....no names listed.

Well spoken,Sp. You have convinced me to scrape the stars off my tool belt.

Tony appreciate your passionate feedback, I know it comes from the soul. Understand the flip side, however. The forum is free - and it's an invaluable tool in attaining our pond management goals. Many of us are subscribers, or fork over some big $ to attend the conferences. However, there's a contingent of forum members who do neither, and frankly I feel as though they are taking advantage of the free ride. I volunteered many months of my professional expertise as a way to try to pay back Bob and Mike for all their guidance, and continue to try to pay it back by offering whatever direction I can to new guys on the forum, and act as a friendly ambassador in the hopes of continuing to spread the gospel that is Pond Boss.

I pushed hard to make the forum free for only a limited time for non subscribers, after a month of free access you can subscribe to the mag, or donate, pay a monthly fee for forum use [$2]. Bob/Mike adamantly disagreed every time I pushed it as they wanted to preserve this as a free resource, and rather count on the forum members in their own conscience to donate, enabling the forum to continue serving as a great resource for us all.

I value your sentiments, a lot, but the forum offers a valuable product that requires money to operate. I feel if one can afford the luxury of a pond/acreage/land, one can afford the price of an annual subscription to the magazine or donate to the forum. It comes out to less than 3 bucks a month - and the advice we enjoy here is easily worth thousands in professional pond management consultation fees. Bottom line, I don't feel pond/acreage owners are a contingent of the poor huddled masses.

Lastly, Bob/Mike wanted a way to say THANK YOU for your support, and also to try and cast a light on the fact this forum needs donations to operate. That's the impetus for the Hall of Fame I believe, and I fully support it. I still believe the forum should be made available only to subscribers, conference attendees, or donors after a one month trial...this information has saved me literally thousands in errors and helped create arguably one of the most unique fisheries in SE NE. $34/year? Seriously? Step up, already - y'all!

I suspect that in every church, as well as in any other group, the major contributors and supporters are known, and, however subtly, are given special recognition. Delving deeply enough into the inner workings of any organization will reveal that perfect communism simply doesn't exist.

I am a fairly new member who lurked for a few months before joining. I found the site within a month of going into escrow on some land that has a pond. If this was a pay site I would not have stayed. All the basic information here can be found for free on other websites or in library books. I’d wager that most of us are DYI’s that prefer getting our hands dirty than hiring someone else to do it (even when we should). That is what makes this site unique. We are all leaning through the stories of adventures, pitfalls and successes of others that are like us. Throw on top of that a bunch of experts that participate makes this a very special place.

To be honest, when I became a member I also subscribed for two years and bought a couple books, but until this thread I didn’t know separate contributions were an option to help out. I just didn’t pay attention to that. And because I’m at a point in my life that I can contribute, I will. But then there are those who dig thier pond with a shovel and wheelbarrow who are on tight budget and will benefit greatly by this being free.

I would also say that I have belonged to other forums that have gone from free to pay. They lose half the people the first day. After time they lose diversity and become a core group that just banters back and forth. I’d join facebook if I wanted that.

I agree keeping the forum free. If more contribution are needed, let us know and I’m sure most will step up.

Good to have you aboard, Mudhole!

To clarify, the site was never going to migrate to a pay site, it was always going to offer a free trial period on the forum, then encourage fiscal participation either via a subscription or donation. That was my vision, anyhow.

I'm sure Bob and Mike appreciate your subscription - thanks for stepping up.

I have yet to this day ever seen a forum as good as Pond Boss. I have been around ponds and rivers all my life. Never knew there was so much more than just water and fish.

So many issues to discuss and cover....

There are a few camps of thought on recognizing donors vs. not recognizing donors. Pond Boss has elected to recognize those who donate.

Is there a difference between one who donates and one who does not donate? Well, yes, from at least one perspective. One chose to pay and one did not.

Is there any difference to access to the forum? No.

Going further on TJ's comments, Pond Boss has struggled with how to maintain and grow the forum, and the desire to keep it free, and to keep everyone happy.

As the forum has grown, Pond Boss has seen that it cannot keep everyone happy, and is evolving to the standpoint of no longer trying to keep everyone happy. This can be seen in the lack of tolerance for those who come to the forum and cause trouble. In the past, Pond Boss would try to coddle those folks and make nice for everyone. Now, it's one, maybe two warnings and then, Adios.

As the forum has grown, the costs of maintaining it have grown to the point of the forum needing to justify more of it's own existence than in the past.

Look at the 2012 and 2013 HOF threads. See the low number of folks that have chosen to give a few bucks.

If you love coming to Pond Boss and interfacing with other members, then you may not be surprised at how cranky you could get when the forum is down for technical reasons!

Th idea of posting a running total has been discussed and may be implemented, but this is not really a charity. This is an individual decision to attribute a value to something that is enjoyed by that same individual. It's not a decision to donate in order to be philanthropic.

Maybe I look at it a little differently than most, but I don't look at it as a donation. To me, it's an investment. I donate, and have great friends that don't, and that's perfectly ok with me. But, I can stick up a post and a pic, and get Eric, Dave, Nate, Scott, etc., etc., give me great advice that would cost me hundreds, if not thousands of dollars IRL.

I know Pond Boss is a business, but the forum has helped me greatly, and I've met wonderful people through it. If the tag is gone, so be it. If this became a subscription forum, so be it. I'd still donate or subscribe, take your pick. I Get far more than my money's worth.

Well put, FIH. Very well put!

Agreed. I don't think folks realize what a fishery or pond management consultant charges daily - try $1000 for an expert - and that's just for ADVICE. Who provides much of the advice/direction on this website? Those same expert professionals. I have never understood why people bristle at the mention of paying something for the help they receive here - it's a realistic expectation - Pond Boss is a business! I think we too often take for granted the value of the forum, and like Al, I am more than happy to continue supporting in any manner possible.

How about posting the actual cost, and having that be a target/motivator for the members? Bob's way too generous already with his time and advice. It seems very unfortunate that such a great wealth of information is available to us for free-especially if that results in a real cost to Bob and Mike.

You make a good point Al, although I would disagree on one count, as it appears that I am the one who looks at it differently than most. I do agree on the concept of "paying for what you use".....and although I don't have any better ideas, the current system just rubs me the wrong way.

Well, I am about as poor as they come. It has been a life that I have chosen, and would not change it. I do not say this to receive pity, but to give an insight to others of where I am coming from. I am with Mudhole's idea that alot of of us come here because we are DIYS. I also don't think that a yearly subscription to the forum is for the best. What TJ is saying is correct about the value the forum can save you, but I would never have realized that because of my lack of knowledge PRIOR to pondboss. I would not have paid to join because I was naive, as most are, to ponds in their early years.

A month, or even a year, is not long enough to really see the big picture of what this forum can do for your pond. I think that is the biggest point I would like to make here. It takes some of us a very long time to access and take it all in of how vast pond management is. This forum can be influential to the future of ponds, but it takes time for people to learn. They will not pay for something that they don't think they need. If they are freely taught they will then realize how little they knew and become good stewards for life, including donations. There have been a few younger mebers (kids) that have joined over the few years that I have been watching. What difference you have made for them in learning what is the best way to take care of ponds.

Now I see it differently after lurking for a few years and then finally joining. I am not in any better position to donate, but see the need. Everyone will do what they can, with what they can. I think perhaps a regular personal email reminder (or post) for donations might be a way to go. Threads like this one is a good way to keep it in everyones mind of the need. Especially newer members/lurkers that don't know about the money costs and the benefits of this site. It is good to hear how much it costs to keep this site going, and how much total is being donated. Gives us a realistic view for need.

Labels are perhaps bad. They could make one feel bad or not part of the gang. They can also be misleading. For example, one may have been thinking that JWANN did not contribute when he actually did ( ..just an error). Or that TJ does not have a HOF label, does that sway a persons opinion of him. If you stick around long enough, you get a good feel for "who is what" without a label. Nice to know who the moderators are.....

One thing that I have noticed over time, a long time here, is that the mag covers topics that are seldom discussed here.

My all time favorite mag story is one that expends quite a bit of print discussing what your pond goes through each season and what you need to do to manage by season. There have been quite a few more on topics that I had never even considered.

The books, especially for a newcomer, can do more to avoid costly mistakes than the Forum could ever do.

The mag and books have saved me a lot more $ than the forum has.

I am sure Bob will want to chime in when he can.

Soap Box time – the Pond Boss Reality

Please note that everyone gets to post their opinion and thoughts and no one criticizes their right to do so or what they say. Much like if someone comes on in need of pond help at least one of us steps up to help. No cost and the only requirement is that you abide by the rules of behavior. Family , encouragement , positive , welcoming , helpful , caring are a few terms that come to mind. Know any other Forums like that ? As with any family there are different personalities , opinions and approaches to life. Not even all the mods agree on everything and that is how it should be. Bob & Mike have gone to great lengths and personal expense to keep the good aspects of the Forum and look for ways to make it better.

The friendships made and people here often transcend this forum. There is a lot that goes on off the record which would touch you very deeply. I know of some and know there are many others unknown to me. I hear about them all the time. I encourage you to look up 3 threads here to get an idea of what I mean. Check on Mason the Pond Boss hound and see just how many went to great lengths for Mason. Yes that effort for an old worn out hound. Second look up the recent thread about George going to Al's pond - ask George what that meant to him. Last look at the story of Matt. Those 3 are public. There are a hundred here of the same nature if you look. There are a lot that are not public and I will not discuss them hear. This place has saved lives , families , businesses and more and has gotten people jobs , opportunities and a new life. It is a reflection of the people here and their commitment to what is right. In that light I have faith that everyone will do what they can to help each other. Each in his/her own time and way.


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This thread has really took off.. In some ways not really what I intended but all in good discussion.. For me I'm not rich and I don't donate alot (not enough for the amount of knowledge I get here). This is my favorite forum and if it was a pay site I probably wouldn't like it but I'd pay it but I probably would..

One other point - the people who donate help keep it a free forum for all of us. I think that the sacrifice by them warrants at least a thank you and some recognition from us all. It is just good manners to thank people for their help

I recognize what you're saying ewest, and I do agree that some type of thanks is in order. But I also believe that good manners extends to the non-solicitation of such accolades. I think words like sacrifice, and donate, carry with them an implied expectation of non-compensation.

I honestly have no problem with helping to fund the forum. I have subscribed to the magazine for years, I attended PB V, and I have previously donated to the forum itself...I think if I'm in a position to do so, then I should, considering what I've learned from my stay on here. After all, tuition isn't free.

I just have a hard time reconciling the Hall of Fame label. It's probably just someting unique to my sensibilities...I haven't even added the "I subscribe" fish logo.

Again, I mean no disrespect to PondBoss, or anyone here. But right or wrong, I am glad I finally said something about it, and I appreciate the tolerance extended to an opposing viewpoint.

That's a good question?? I'm will to trade half a "hall of Fame" label for 1/2 a row of stars any takers