Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations NEW GUY with 40+ Year Old Pond IN NEED OF HELP!!!

Gotcha. Did a Google search for ag lime in your area and wasn't having a lot of luck, which is why I suggest talking to landscapers or farmers. You know, you might even want to consider running by a local golf course - plenty of those within an hour of you - and asking the groundskeeper about suppliers.

Check in with the SC DNR about fish suppliers. Or see if others here have a good referral for you. Rainman on this forum is hooked in with great suppliers of all sorts of fish and may be able to offer some insights. Consider shooting him a PM if he doesn't check in any time soon.

I think you're probably already way ahead. JHAP's positive post count is subject to the LCL Punitive Divisor [as described by Dwight], and should be further reduced because many of his posts actually encourage propagation rather than extermination of green sunfish. I refer to this as the Green Sunfish Negative Multiplicand Corrective Effect. I would guess that his positive post count,when subject to these corrections, is probably closer to zero. In fact, it might even be negative.


This will be really hard to tell. I'd call the local Co-op to ask about lime-it really shouldn't be expensive to have it delivered by dump, if you can spread it yourself.
Tilapia? Again, really hard to say. Shop around a lot, might PM Rainman on here-I don't know if he gets over your way or not...ditto Greg Grimes, also on here. [If I'm leaving someone out, apologies, it's ignorance, not on purpose]. Same goes for TF shad. The shad can get expensive in a hurry, though.

Whichever you choose, if any, remember that the benefit will be very short lived if you don't correct the underlying problem first.....

So..... Would the below be a accurate start at a summary of this thread?

-Being detailed listing of fish caught (length, weight, location caught, time, month, day)--What else?

-Continue to remove as many 1-1.5 pound bass as possible before spawning time this spring.

-Get detailed water and soil analysis done yesterday.



What else??

How does $65 per ton delivered for ag Lime sound? Fair?

That's about what is here, I priced it in November.

Here are some pictures I snapped this morning. One of the dock. One of the small bass I caught this morning while killing time. And then a couple of the Land/House.

Yolk, given your propensity toward creative and fuzzy mathematics I believe that you could have a promising career in governmental budgeting.

limit your Joking guys.. This thread could disappear

I have no idea what is actually going on here anymore. Did I do something wrong?

Nope, you didn't do anything wrong at all.

Sorry, Will!
Your only offense has been to stumble upon a forum filled with people who are crazy about ponds-unfortunately, the craziness is not limited to the ponds, and sometimes overflows, sometimes in a "raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."

So, no, you didn't do anything wrong, and we'll try to get back to your question.

Your place looks great, and worthy of major investments of time and energy. The bass you posted looks like a pretty typical bass heavy bass-big head, mouth, little skinny body. I'd go back to bass removal as the cornerstone of your pond therapy, with the other suggestions helpful adjuncts.

Other questions?

Oh I'm just as crazy as the next guy. Just couldn't follow the inside jokes flying back and forth. Thanks for the clarification though.


I've heard a saying that goes something like.... "When you think you've removed enough bass, double the amount and your getting close" or something to that nature. I understand that it's a long term play and that results are not immediate. But is there a rule of thumb to use? Or keep removing the bass until I see some type of change next season?



Also on the structure suggestions, I've searched and browsed around everywhere on this site and see that this is quite the creative bunch when it comes to fish habitat. That being said, I understand BG like pea gravel/ sandy bottoms for spuaning but what are some other general habitat structures do theyprefer? Lower "bush like" PVC villages or more vertical structures.

Some of the advice provided above stresses habitat and with the exception of a few areas, most my ponds habitat comes from us hinde cutting trees along the bank, therefore we only really fish along the bank (from a boat) but the idea of putting structure mid pond and fishing there as well is very appealing!!!

Thanks

Will

Start keeping length and weight records of the LMB caught with the very next fishing trip if you aren't doing so now. Let us know what those numbers are. There is a relative weight chart in the archives that equals 100. Your fish are probably under that, which means that they aren't getting enough food.

That will also tell you if a particular size class of fish ARE getting enough to eat. A fish can't grow to the length that it is if it isn't close or above 100WR (or RW).

So, if you see lots of 10" LMB that are over 100 WR, but 12" fish aren't, then you know what size of forage fish you have to concentrate on producing.

The charts and your records will tell you when to stop removing fish - typically you slow down removing fish once you see the Relative Weights of the fish climbing well over 100.

As for cover (I think of cover as things that are not part of the pond bottom, such as channels, creekbeds, etc.- those are structure), the finer, closer together "branches" let smaller fish hide, while the more open types of cover let larger fish hide. It's a balancing act. Finer cover near spawing areas, coarser cover in travel routes and staging areas.

You'll know when the LMB are getting enough to eat when they start looking like this:




17.5" 4#, 4 oz. Small head, small tail for the body size. I have pellet trained LMB in my pond, but they all are tagged. This one was not, and I couldn't find a scar or blemish where it should have been tagged. Combination of lots of small BG and Tilapia I think.

What Scott said.

Without knowing exactly how many bass of each year class you have, and exactly of what your forage base consists, there's simply no way to give a number of either fish or pounds of fish to remove. But if you take the time to gather some objective data going forward, and are consistent, you'll be able to see when you're starting to make a difference. Getting to where you have fish that look like Scott's above means you've arrived, but you'll have to work to stay at that equilibrium.

I have 36 feed trained Largemouths swimming around in my pond that are tagged with Floy tags. The rule for my pond is that EVERY Largemouth that is caught that doesn't have a floy tag in it is removed. No matter if it's 2" or 20" long.

I'm still fighting a low forage fish population problem, even tho it doesn't look like I am by the conditon of that LMB. But, if you were to sample for forage fish, you'd see that they are struggling to keep up.

Looks great, Will! As the others have said, you definitely have a place with lots of potential, making it worthwhile to invest some active and ongoing management.

I think you should have a pretty good idea here of some basic tasks that will help you get started. Your biggest key remains, in my opinion, getting lots of LMB out of your pond and to keep doing so till you see that shift in relative weights of the fish you're catching.

I see what appears to be chara - an aquatic plant in the algae family - growing there in the shallows. I have a lot in one of my ponds and it tends to keep water clarity pretty high. The one year I aggressively worked at killing it/preventing it from getting started, my water was a horrible muddy brown all year. I do like clear water so the chara isn't a big detriment in my mind. It also provides a very dense cover for fry and young of year (YOY) fish.

Nonetheless, adding more types of cover never hurts but perhaps consider slanting it towards larger fish. And, as mentioned before, don't overdo it - 20% of the pond area for cover is a pretty solid rule of thumb. Use it creatively and working with itself to provide those "highways" previously mentioned, allowing fish to transition from shallow water to deeper water with cover to help them make the trip.

Keep your questions coming, but get started with these ideas as your time and budget allow. And keep us posted.

AND, and that's a big and, never let our pointless, mindless jesting and banter deter you from posting or from even joining in. Heck, most of our "inside" humor is just dumb fun stuff that has happened over the years and you are always welcome to jump right in and be a nut along with us!

Sounds absurdly expensive to me...In the Ozarks of Missouri, Ag Lime is delivered/spread at $12/T with a 15 ton minimum from most farm Co-Op's.

I find that statement hilarious as I know Jhap is a good accountant, and any good accountant will make 2 plus 2 equal "whatever the client wants it to be".. J/K

Get the details on water/soil. Document the catches, check.

Pics look great, more photos of the bass and bg would be helpful. As ewest said, pics are worth a thousand words.

Yes on harvesting continuing harvesting bass. Don't harvest any BG. If your bass have been underfed like this a long time then they might never be optimal fish. Since you restocked 10 years ago has the pond produced big bass? If not, your long term success is going to depend upon your current bass offspring.

As said before the key is to prop up the food chain while you're harvesting and changing the balance. Keep up the feeding program for the BG, aggressively if possible. Look for diversity in forage. The tilapia are a good option that will also take to feed. RES are an option that fill a different niche than the BG. As are shiners if you can get your LMB under control. It looks like you have enough vegetation to support them.

You're on a long term process here, and you're making good strides. It all won't be perfect in a year! Keep up the solid work and thanks for sharing.

Lime delivered down this way runs around $45/ton. Tilapia can work depending on your goals and we do have some overwinter (last year we didn't have a winter here). We work with a number of lake owners in your area with similar situations. All good advice given here. First step is to get a handle on your current situation via electrofishing, discuss your goals, factor in all your variables such as water quality, etc. and chart a course toward a successful fishery. Older bass-crowded situations don't always turn around quickly with just harvest and we've found the total pounds of bass needed for removal is quite monumental when trying to angle them out. Would be happy to discuss with you.

So I've been fishing a good bit in efforts to pull out as many bass as possible. I've probably pulled out 35 or so fish, including the picture ive included. The largest bass in the picture was slightly under 3 pounds.

I think this picture better represents the bass population vs the first pictures that i uploaded of the much smaller bass. As you can see, there are a good amount of <1 # bass but also some 2-3# fish as well.

Hopefully we can keep fishing enough to put a dent into the bass population (hopefully before spawning as well).

Working on the details of liming/ fertilization and will certainly get back to the group for opinions before taking action. You guys have been great!!

Strong work, Will!
You're right, those bass do look healthier and better nourished than the other one posted-they're probably stuffed with almost all your yoy BG.
Have you made any decisions about tilapia and/or threadfins?

Concerning the Tilapia/threadfin shad, I was under the impression that i needed to get the Bass population under control before even trying to add forage fish. did i miss understand this?

Now if anyone wants to purchase the plans to my customized structure (which is not finished in the picture attached), I only accept cash.... Kidding aside, i'm not quitting my day job to go into the structure business. That aside, after screwing in a bunch more PVC pipes, essentially making a long term Christmas tree structure. It didnt look half bad. At the point of the picture, It looked quite BAD.

No, not at all, I was just curious about your conclusions.
Tilapia go in later in the spring,when the water is warmer, so you could conceivably stock them this year-in fact, it might work out well. Threadfins would likely have a better chance next year when you'e wacked back the bass population. They're pretty expensive snacks, otherwise.