Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations NEW GUY with 40+ Year Old Pond IN NEED OF HELP!!!

Good Afternoon Fella's,

Long time lurker, first (or maybe second time posting).. Been learning so much from this site. Only to learn that I still have quite a lot more learnings aheads of me.

Background- appox 7-8 acre pond thats been in the family for 40 years. This pond is not fed by any other water source and maintains a average of 7-8 feet deep across the entire pond. Pond used to maintain a higher water level but seems set at the 7.5is foot average depth. No deep holes that we are aware of. At one time we have a very deep well pump that provided water into the pond but even when run for an entire month, we MIGHT see a 1/4 inch increase in water level. We dont run this pump anymore...

See attachment for GOOGLE MAP OVERVIEW


That being said, the pond was stocked (estimate) 9-10 years ago after performing a fish kill to start from scratch. Stocked with bream and LMB. Not sure of the stocking rates but it was performed by a local biologist (believe this was during the time that stocking was free in South Carolina).

I just started using feeders late last summer and had success getting the Bream to eat the feed quite quickly. I have suspended feeding until the spring kicks in.

The fish population is our current debacle as we have tons of 1 - 1. 5 pound bass. We've been pulling every single one of these out since about Novemeber of this past year. I'd say that we've pulled about 50 pounds of bass out of the pond in efforts to balance the population and allow the bass to grow bigger. All the bass we catch fall within that 1-1.5 poind range…ALL OF THEM.

As far as the bream. During the spring, we did catch quite a few nice big bream. We released these as we understand that we are more bass heavy of a population than we would like and need to help the bream out whenever possible.

Over the past 20-30 years, this pond had some very good years where huge bass were caught but also had a strong panfish presence.

There has also been years where the bream over populated the place and you couldn't catch a bass to save your life.

We've had some water weed issues in the pond over the past few summers. Some worst than others. This past summer wasn't that bad at all. Sometimes it gets so bad that a trolling motor is unusable and paddling is the only way to get around to the few open spots in the lake. (not sure what type of weed it is but I will see if i can't find the name of it somewhere).


As far as fertilizing,some years we do, and some years we don't. When we did, we use the blue bucket fertilizer from Carolina Eastern (10-34-0). We dumped this isn't a large trashcan in the bottom of the boat and then diluted it and then sprayed into prop wash all around the pond.

Maybe 5 or 6 years ago we have a large amount of lime dumped into the pond as this is a developed pond and surrounding woods (all pines) and needed adjust the PH. This lime wasn't distributed the most 'proper' way but I think some is better than nothing. Nowaday, we coiuld probably apply correctly if needed (which I'm sure it is).

Our objective (at a simplistic level), is to grow a more diverse range size of bass and to keep a strong bream population.

Now that i've given some background info. What are some suggestions or advice that the community of PB can offer. I am open to anything. and will be as quick as possible to responding to questions as possible.

Addition to all of this info-- This fall/winter we have been fishing much more than normal for the winter time and have noticed that almost all of the bass caught, were caught in the MIDDLE of the pond. Normally we ONLY fish around the edges where either we have man made structure or over hanging wax myrtles. This has been a huge change for us actually catching fish in the middle..also as i noted, the pond depth is relatively constant throughout the entire pond.

Nice looking pond, willbjew. Good info on the pond, too. For larger LMB, you are probably off to the right start by removing a lot of them that you catch. You probably should also be keeping pretty regular records of the length and weight of what you catch you have a rough survey of the population. If everything seems to be 1 - 1.5 pounds, then changes should be pretty obvious once you reduce the data to writing and can review it. As you see the sizes and relative weights change, you can make adjustments.

One question that I have relates to your forage base. I understand you have bream (Bluegill or some other species of sunfish?) and that you are feeding them. What other forage sources are in the pond?

Feeding is certainly a good way to get quality weight onto a fish in a reasonable time, so that's definitely a good decision. But are there any other forage species such as shiners or otherwise?

Remember that with a bass heavy pond, you will most likely achieve some nice sized BG through predation. The survivors will have more forage and will grow better. It sounds like you are at a point that you want to be with the "bream" being pretty nice sizes. Are the LMB the real focus at this point?

And also don't forget the important role of habitat in this equation! Make sure your forage species have a place to hang out and be relatively safe from predation so they don't get totally decimated right off the bat. Generally, cover should make up no more than about 20% of your total pond area. Tons of great info and ideas for cover on the site and you can spend hours reading up on ideas.

Well we have pallet piles and rock piles throughout the pond. Bunch of willows and wax myrtles that hang into the pond. I always see super small baby bream and bass hanging out around these trees.


Suggestions for fertilization/ liming?

Those areas about which I really don't know much. I do know you want to be cautious when fertilizing to ensure you don't sufficiently change the water chemistry such that undesirable vegetation growth occurs. Not sure if that could be why you've had an explosion of weeds that appear to make the pond nearly unfishable, but it's certainly something to consider. Ponds don't automatically need fertilization unless they are lacking in sufficient growth of the various algaes and other first level food chain species.

As far as lime, unless your pH dictates that you use it, you may not need/want to add it. Have you had a water chemistry analysis done yet?

I am in the process of having water analysis done. But would bet large amounts of cash (that i dont have) that surrounding water/soil is very acidic due to all the pine trees dumping needles year after year after year.



Is there a rule of thumb on pulling out a certain poundage of bass per acre or something? any way to sample a small area of the pond to get a idea of the total populations?


Sorry if these a rookie/dump questions.


Thanks in advance!

Will

It's possible, but as with all things pondy, it's better to take action based on the best information you can get or you may see a drastically undesired impact on your fishery. Which leads me to another point - don't take huge steps as you progress unless you've been advised to do so by someone who is intimately familiar with your particular situation and who you trust. One of the best approaches is to make an adjustment and then give it time to play out, measuring the results as you go. Taking big steps may overdo it and cause more problems than you had to start with.

As far as measuring fish, as long as your fishing and recording data all over the pond, you should have a decent idea of the overall condition of the fishery. It's going to take some time to see change in the relative weights so just be patient. One rule of thumb I've read here over the years is to take out as many fish as you can till you begin worrying that you've taken out too many, then take out some more!

In a pond your size, you probably have a lot of fish. Here is a link to a SC DNR publication that has a lot of good info for stocking rates and carrying capacity to give you an idea of a healthy balance. All of your management efforts should be towards reaching that ideal balance and harvesting is a key component of achieving that balance.

See what the real experts here have to say. Weekends can be a little slow so just hang tight and you'll get more feedback. And remember, there are no dumb or rookie questions other than the ones NOT asked! And post some pics of your place. That Google maps pic shows a really cool looking BOW (body of water) so it would be nice to see some ground level shots.

By the way, was just looking at the Google map pic again and realized where you are located. We are usually down there in Hilton Head a week or two each year and you are just up the road a few minutes. I might just have to drop in and pay a visit when we head that way next since I'm always looking for something different to do when we take some time off down there!

Howdy Will-
Very nice spot you've got.

I would heartily agree with everything Todd has said, especially WRT to LMB removal. It sounds from what you've posted that there are probably very few BG reaching that critical 5-8" range that will feed the 3-6# fish you're missing.

I sat on a log once and watched half a dozen 11-14" bass working a bunch of 3-4" blue gills in a cove at a pond I fish a lot. Over a six pack [about 2.5h] they probably took 20 of those gills....imagine that happening day after day all summer long and it's not hard to see why there isn't much for the larger bass to eat. So work those bass like crazy, especially this winter and spring before they spawn.

Feeding your BG consistenty will help a lot as well.

Are tilapia legal in SC? A heavy stocking this summer could help with both forage and weeds.

I'm also with Todd on fertilizing and lime.....be careful, and these might even be areas [especially lime in a pond with an acidic drainage] where it might be worth spending some money and having someone with practical knowledge and experience do a formal consultation.

And by the way, if you'd rather not have Todd visit but are too polite to say so, just mix in some strategically placed snake pictures along with your pond pics.......

With the pine trees, I'd expect to add a minimum of 10 tons of ag lime per acre of water and wait to see if any fertilizing is required (I doubt any would be needed)...All the trees would prevent a slinger truck making the job cheap, quick and easy, yet a pontoon boat would be pretty easy to spray off of in a day.

Pretty place!

Good advice so far. Having the facts ( info ) helps make good decisions. Water and soil tests first - they are inexpensive and help avoid wrong choices. Most likely need lime. Id the problem plants. Gather RW (size , weight and length) info on the LMB. Pics speak a thousand words - take some of the LMB.

As far as other forage, what do you mean? We have not stocked any type of bait fish in the pond. Just blue gill and bass. Is bait fish what you are referring to?

I believe they are saying forage, as in anything which the LMB will eat. That virtually means any type of fish, etc., that will fit in their mouth. Other forage would be good for the LMB besides BG that you have. Tilapia as mentioned might be one. Check out these current threads on it http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=319140#Post319140 and http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=319062&page=1 .

You would be best off if a new type of forage fish could be added that would be able to keep up with the huge appetite that LMB have. Not FHM. Also adding the proper habitat for the forage fish will help them from getting wiped out by the LMB. What those are, the pros here would have to help you out with that.

Per your links are you saying that tilapia are a good option for Forage fish to stock? Aren't these a seasonal fish that die off in the cold months. Are there other bait (forage) fish stocking options that are more sustainable options.


The pond seems to have plenty of habitat. Quite a few groups of 5-6 tires tied together in a circle and then placed different spots around the pond. Also the wax myrtles have 'wirey' branches that extend into the water all around the bank. As you can see from the google map, all banks have trees/bushes on them. Very little bare bank if any. in the middle of the pond, we have hauled tree tops out there and sank them but rarely (up until this winter , never) caught fish off of them. Historically all fish big and small have been caught from around the banks.

Thanks again in advance!

Tilapia will likely die off in SC...how cold does your water get?
There are multiple advantages that tilapia offer, but for you, the two greatest would be weed suppression and an extremely fast growing productive source of food for all those bass-nothing you can add is likely to produce more edible mass than tilapia.

In SC, you could also add threadfin shad. They might have trouble establishing in such a bass heavy environment, however. I can't think of anything else that wouldn't just be a single expensive meal for your fish-you've already got the best southern LMB forage going with your BGs. It sounds like your "forage problem" may be more of an overeating problem by the smaller bass. I'd focus on feeding the BG you have to encourage reproduction-and getting as many of those bass out of there as you possibly can. When you start catching 2-3# fish like those you see in some of the current fishing 2013 threads from Texas ponds-you'll know you're coming back into balance.

I need to get a reading on the water temp but i'm pretty sure that it gets cold enough to kill off tilapia. If i recall correctly,we stock some (how many i dont know- this was my dads doing), 5 or so years ago and they were stocked mainly for weed control. I never saw them past the first season. I just remember seeing schools of white fish swimming around.

I am getting water and soil samples sent off very soon.

Something I have been having issues with is getting ball park prices on different options available. I'm not looking for finite, down to the penny quotes. Just general back of the envelope figures. Just so i know what i am dealing with in order to come up with some-type of budget to work off of.

As the Map shows, I'm 20 miles south of charleston south carolina. Any body know what the going rate is for a delivered ton of lime is these days (Would need more than that but just getting general figures). I have the means to spread it throughout the pond.

First, let me just say that I think I am now on track to eventually catch up to JHAP based on your comment, Yolk! While he's off counting his beans (a la Dr. Evil - "One, two . . . three. All there!" ), I'm making useful posts!

As for the snake pics thing, that's just dirty pool, man!

As far as my comments about the forage fish goes, it would only make sense to thin out as much of the LMB as possible, then add them. Otherwise any new forage fish would be hard to establish. After thinning the LMB out, I would look into other forage with the help from the pros here. Once a specific type is determined, then find out what habitat they need to thrive. You may have alot of habitat in the pond now, but if it is not the right type it all goes to waste.

Tilapia are supposed to die off, and it actually works in your favor. When stocked appropriately, they eat all the undesired vegetation and turn it into offspring, which adds to your food chain. Then in the fall when the water gets cold, they become sluggish and easy bass prey. Rainman should be the one to tell you about this, though, as he's the expert and everything I just told you I just read on this site

For what things, specifically, are you gathering figures?



Your best bet might be to just go find a local landscaping company and inquire with them. Or, if you have any farmers reasonably close, stop in and introduce yourself and ask them about sources of ag lime.

Todd probably looks pretty good in Pink
Maybe he should get those pipes insured against an inevitable future failure

I can just imagine the screaming and the wild thrashing that goes on when TuTu Boy encounters a snake

Not so much tu-tu boy. Think more along the lines of Marv in the Home Alone movies!

I was referring to the cost of ag lime and then stocking of tilapia/thread fin shad.

We love you Todd, or should I say, Mr. G6

You do understand, that you have an ingrained public reputation when it comes to snakes