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John Wann #317530 01/13/13 11:29 AM
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LMAO. Seen it happen.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
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Originally Posted By: Zep
Originally Posted By: Bing
Well I really dont want to argue this into infinity, but I dont know that the fact that almost 40% of the people that get the flu have had the flu shot. It is 62 percent effective but does that mean that 28 percent of the folks who get the vaccination get the flu


Bing it would 38% not 28%...correct?

I would think if the flu vaccine is "62% effective",
that would mean it is 38% (almost 40%) ineffective and
for it to be "ineffective" people that took the shot would have
got the flu. What other definition of a flu shot not being effective
could there be?


So this data...could be very misleading.
I would bet that the 40% had a MUCH higher degree of comorbid medical conditions, immunocompromise, and oveall poor health.

I have given 300+ flu vaccines in my clinic. I am seeing 10+ people a day with the flu right now. ONLY ONE patient got the shot and still got the flu. he also has cancer, and is on meds that probably kept him from mounting the complete response needed to obtain immunity.






Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
Every decision in life, either consciously or subconsciously is made with a personal risk analysis.

Advantages to getting flu shot:

1. Possible avoidance of inconvenience caused by getting the flu.
2. Possible avoidance of being a vector for passing the flu to others.
3. Possible avoidance of death.

Disadvantages of getting the flu shot.

1. Cost
2. Inconvenience



Bottom line this is the best info here. The only thing i would add is that Data are very tricky. It is all about how the epidemiologists present said data.

I could pull data that show you that penicillin kills people and is bad. I can also show you how many lives it has saved. The truth is usually in the middle.. the trouble is finding the correct middle.

There was a HUGE study a few years ago called the Women's Heath Initiative. Long story short it showed that estrogen was bad and we shouldn't treat women with this. The trouble was the data was spun in such a way that this was not entirely correct. It changed the way our country practiced medicine with what some feel was very bad data. It was/is a huge controversy.

Dustin Pratt #317541 01/13/13 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dustin Pratt

There was a HUGE study a few years ago called the Women's Heath Initiative. Long story short it showed that estrogen was bad and we shouldn't treat women with this. The trouble was the data was spun in such a way that this was not entirely correct. It changed the way our country practiced medicine with what some feel was very bad data. It was/is a huge controversy.


Thank you very much for adding this example. Same type thing is going on for testosterone supplements for men. Increased vigor, shorten lifespan? Bottom line to me is that my physician, whom I trust completely with all my other medical needs, want's me to get a flu shot.

Now back to the flu shot thread.


AL

Yolk Sac #317542 01/13/13 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: Yolk Sac
Originally Posted By: catmandoo
Are you currently pursuing an RN?

Obviously not, best I recall Cecil is a happily married man.


grin

Good catch!

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 01/13/13 12:39 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






John Wann #317546 01/13/13 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: BC
Seen it happen.

Me too.
Sometimes you post something that seems so obvious, something inherently and patently truthful, that a reasonable person simply couldn't disagree with you, only to find that some misguided, deluded individual indeed does hold a contradictory opinion, and must have been just waiting to pounce on your innocent contribution, spewing forth venomous ad hominem attaks and falsehoods.

Like this, from the BP archives:

Yolk Sac: Green sunfish suck.

JHAP: You Moron!

Last edited by Yolk Sac; 01/13/13 07:05 PM.
John Wann #317550 01/13/13 01:08 PM
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So TRUE!!


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Yolk Sac #317555 01/13/13 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: Yolk Sac
Originally Posted By: BC
Seen it happen.

Me too.
Sometimes you post something that seems so obvious, something inherently and patently truthful, that a reasonable person simply couldn't disagree with you, only to find that some misguided, deluded individual indeed does hold a contradictory opinion, and has must been waiting to pounce, spewing forth venomous threats and falsehoods.

Like this, from the BP archives:

Yolk Sac: Green sunfish suck.

JHAP: You Moron!


LMAO!


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






John Wann #317661 01/14/13 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: Yolk Sac

Me too.
Sometimes you post something that seems so obvious, something inherently and patently truthful, that a reasonable person simply couldn't disagree with you, only to find that some misguided, deluded individual indeed does hold a contradictory opinion, and must have been just waiting to pounce on your innocent contribution, spewing forth venomous ad hominem attaks and falsehoods.

Like this, from the BP archives:

Yolk Sac: Green sunfish suck.

JHAP: You Moron!


I couldn't agree with you more. Do you know that after I posted that I actually got a PM from a guy that insisted that you weren't a moron. We argued back and forth for several days until he provided me a with Wikipedia link that educated me as to the fact that "Moron" is actually a mountain in Switzerland.

It was at this point I conceded that in fact you were not a Moron.

After all, there is no way that I wanted to be accused of making a mountain out of a molehill.


JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
John Wann #317680 01/14/13 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: JHAP
It was at this point I conceded that in fact you were not a Moron.

After all, there is no way that I wanted to be accused of making a mountain out of a molehill.


Gee, thanks JHAP, I think it's great how people on opposite sides of a divisive issue can come together and be civil and supportive of each......wait a minute, what's that....

Never mind.

John Wann #317724 01/14/13 07:24 PM
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cupla idjits!


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
John Wann #317750 01/14/13 10:00 PM
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Dave I had to Google it but you are right!!!


"I love living. I have some problems with my life, but living is the best thing they've come up with so far." � Neil Simon,
John Wann #317751 01/14/13 10:17 PM
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Yolk Sac: "I'm no slouch myself".

JHAP: "Don't sell yourself short, Yolk. You're a tremendous slouch".


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
John Wann #317754 01/15/13 12:47 AM
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I just took the kids to see the Hobbit last weekend, and Dr. Slouchy Molehill has an earthy, colloquial, hobbit-like quality to it. Well done, JHAP and BC - you are the Kings of nicknames.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


John Wann #317774 01/15/13 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
cupla idjits!
I would be deeply offended by this remark were it not truth supported by undeniable facts.

Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
and Dr. Slouchy Molehill has an earthy, colloquial, hobbit-like quality to it.
I think that this nick name should appear on a line below Yolk's screen name.

Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
I just took the kids to see the Hobbit last weekend....
TJ, I'm convinced that if you thoroughly researched your ancestry you would find that you are somehow related to Bilbo & Frodo Baggins.

Rearrange some hair and you are a dead ringer for Frodo. That can't merely be coincidence. Besides TJ Baggins has a nice ring to it.




Ring, get it?.... jeez some times I crack myself up.


JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
John Wann #317778 01/15/13 01:26 PM
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I have been known to eat a second lunch now and again and do have a penchant for adventures...

The love of fireworks came from Gandalf, obviously.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


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