Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Need some Serious Help!!

Be very careful using a 3-pt hitch boom to lift stuck objects, lest you pop really high wheely!

Just chain the front of the tractor very short and tight to truck or something similar.

Making a bit of headway. Have several engineering manuals (the fine print) from 3 of the top dogs. The pump ends all look pretty decent, it's the motors that are the weak link. Discounted two brands as "toast" in under 5 seconds (said they can't handle it) Another brand has a pretty decent industrial motor, much better efficiency, but not super great compared to other type industrial motors. Promising thing, is this may be able to dance in Vector Land!

The work continues!!!

Good! It'll be interesting to see what you find out.

OK I have been doing some research on the drought where the pond is and it seems that. This area was the WORST area for the drought! It was far worse than the are where this other pond is that is full. So here is my thing I have 2 ways I con go.

1. I can draining the pond and cover up all the springs in the creek channel.

OR

2. I could spend money on Piping and a pump and electricity down at the sight and start pumping.

Which would you spend the money to do? any advice?

Me personally I chose to spend my money on the water source first since I knew that was a 100% way to keep the pond full. I later rewoorked at my pace. I went this route because there was no 100% way to know if I would stop the leaks. It has paid off because the first rework did not stop the leaks and I was also able to have a water source during the drought.

I do not know if you are interested or not but there is a big 3 day construction and farming auction coming up Jan 31 thru Feb 2 in Dothan Al.. The auction generally has a good bit of Irrigation and piping in it. I have picked up a good bit up metal & pvc pipe there over the years for a good price. The last couple of years I have bid live internet bidding thru proxibid after going down going down and looking at what I might want.
http://www.deancoauction.com/auctions.html

You'v been a BIG help Tums!

Let me ask you something.... After you re-worked the bottom of your lake. What changes did you see in your pumping bill and the rate at which the Lake stays full now?

Before I had to pump atleast 1 day a week ($25 at my cost and around 2 water acre feet) even with normal rain and after first rework it went to about 1 day ever other week with normal rain. After I reworked it a second time I only have to pump when the rain fall is below normal which was $36 worth in Dec 2012. I can not count Nov 2012 as I pumped alot of water to keep the pond water temps up during cold snaps to help extend my warm water fish growing season. My water temps remained above 68 degrees until mid Dec..

I agree with Tums on securing a good water source first, if you can.

Tums, are you running a VFD with your pump? The first motor you posted was 230vac single phase. The second motor was 200vac three phase. The way you described how it starts, it sounds like a line starter. Just curious.

Tums what was the rework you did on the first go around and what was the rework on the second go around? What did you miss on the first rework?

Tough decisions ahead for you BigPond.

Just my two cents worth. If it was me, I would do some ground work/sealing first. Reason being is that your pond is close to empty, so that makes it like starting all over. Why fill it up now (at a monthly cost ), drain it and do work later to seal it. I agree with them above that you want a good water source, and you know now that runoff isn't enough. So I think you will need to do the pump anyway. I personally don't like the idea of needlessly losing water when you are paying for it.

BigPond, Is the current water level stabilized? And if so, is there a place around that water's edge that looks like it is seeping? Have you been able to get anybody there to look at the situation?

JKB no VFD is being used.

Big_pond The first time we did not remove all the stumps in the upper end. The second time ran over everything again to pack and removed the stumps in the upper end and packed those holes. There was like a liquified quick sand under the stumps. After the first time we where still losing over 1" a day. Right Now I have lost about 3" over the last month with what rain we have got.

Fish N chips Just so you understand the logic I used behind the decision when you are like I was (and I think Big Pond maybe also). When you have to depend on water shed it may take a very long time to fill a pond up. If you rework it first and you may even be forced into doing a water supply just to fill the pond back up. The pond is always going to be losing water thru natural means (evaporation and such) and the fact I have never seen a 100% leak proof earth dirt pond. If you can do the water supply first you may find out that the money you where going to spend for reworking will supply you water for a few decades. Also When you do get ready to rework the pond you can fill the pond alot quicker. The fact I can drain my 3 acre watershed pond and fill it in less than 3 weeks with no rain made me very happy I went water supply first.

Edit: I would have never filled up as my upland water shed coefficent dropped when the pastures where converted back into forest. I do not get near the shed I used to.

Yes it is a TOUGH decision. The thing I am trying to figure is... Am I really loosing THAT much water????

As I had in the other post. For the past two years we have had 74 inches of rain and according to research we have had 110 inches of evaporation. It would stand to reason that I should be down 3 feet due to evaporation, in stead of 10 feet!

But lets reason here... I am not loosing an inch a day, The dam was VERY Well built with a GOOD core(keyway). But when I don't really have much coming in or very little then the amount of seepage i have is working against me. But here is the thing I keep hereing, "All pond have some seepage" becuase al dirt seeps water. I can tell you this lake does not have anymore seepage then any other ponds I have studied this size.

You thats interesting... i converted my 40 acre Up land to Pasture from Cutover land. It would stand to reason I should get more shed.

One thing to Keep in mind my pond was in the WORST part of the drought for 2011 and 2012... When I compared this to another 10 acre lake in 3 counties over, the drought was not NEAR as bad...

When I go to the back of my dam at the VERY bottom at the old stream bed where the pipe is coming out, there is a trickle of water comeing out running down the stream... Can this be stopped?

Fully agree with you on your thinking. The main point being is you have to sit down and figure out which solution is the cheapest for the duration. I probably should have said it that way. If it would cost 10,000 to seal and you can fill it for 5,000 for its duration...you got to go with the cheaper. By the sounds of it, I think the cost for the pump set-up is going to be needed no matter what. So you could take that amount out of the equation, and just deal with operating cost of pumping versus sealing cost. To me, both of these would be hard to get down exactly because of so many variables. Makes the head spin. And yes, sealing would not fix normal water losses, just major ones.

What I was getting at with the seepage by the water line area "inside of your pond basin area" is that it might be a very likely spot where the leak is the worse. If you had such an area, it might be a place to concentrate on instead of a "big fix".

Well I really can't say there is one place where the water is coming out. Or is there any level where the water is coming out the fastest or slowest. I do see water coming out of the 'old creak' channel at the very bottom of the dam.
But this amount of water I see is less than what I see on other ponds this size...BUT with no water coming in its ALOT..

Ok. Lets back up here a bit and I will try explaining what I am thinking in a different way.

You have water coming out on the backside of the dam. This amount of water leaving is greater than what water is coming into the pond. That "might" tell you that there is a spring flowing into your pond that you are not seeing, probably under the current water level. If you have that great of a spring coming in, it could be the place that water can go in a reverse direction once there is a lot of water in the pond (from the pressure of weight). Thus you could be losing water thru the dam AND thru this spring.

One way to find this spring(s). First, walk around the entire perimeter of the pond at the waters edge. Look for the slightest trace of water running into the pond. If you find any, follow it back to its source and mark it. These would be areas to concentrate on sealing. You might have several of these areas around the pond that would then add up to be the same amount of water that you see leaving the backside of the dam. If you don't have these springs around the edge of the pond, then it "might" be under the current water level. Then proceed to drain the water.

Pump/drain the water out. Keep an eye on ANY area that seems to keep trickling water back in the pond. Scout the edges as said above. Mark these to fix. You may not have to take all the water out to find these. They may be only a foot under the current water level, but they may also be at the very bottom. In regards to the water that comes out behind the dam, you might even be able to tell at this point where that water is leaving the pond from the inside. Thus fix that too. After all this is done, pump it full of water. You will probably have to pump on a regular basis because it seems obvious that you do not have enough rainfall to keep it full.

A WHOLE OTHER APROACH: Get several pond builders out there to give you qoutes on the cost of sealing/fixing the problem. Install the pump and fill the pond. You get the qoutes before filling it so the contractors can see the situation. Figure out how much it costs you per month for keeping it filled. Figure out how much water is a normal loss. With these numbers you have what is needed to determine if it is cheaper to drain and seal the pond, or just keep filling it with the pump.

I am by no means a dirt mover/pond builder. What I am saying here is just my common-sense approach to how I might fix the problem. There might be alot better ways to do this. Hopefully others can tell you what that might be. Sorry for the long winded reply. Just hope its thorough enough to help.

Fish n chips good post, like you I think big pond is going to have to get professional on site advice and then decide what route to take.

4 pages ago, I mentioned that!

Thread turned out pretty good tho!

JkB Yep, a couple of us mentioned that on page 1.

Some of us want to try to do-it-yourself. I myself for one. When you want to do it yourself, you have to start learning somewhere. Most of the time it takes alot of work by others to get me to see the light, but when I do it makes all the hard work getting there that much more rewarding....

And then sometimes you go thru all the work, and still find out you need a pro.......