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I have a few questions that may also help thomasmgp. It sounds like he wants crappie the most( his top goal). Most on the forum don't reccommend that you put in crappie unless you have a lake(aprox25+ acres), but I think thomasmgp is going to put them in no matter what. Now enter into the mix LMB. Can the LMB be used in a way to control the crappie population? How about not having BG so the LMB have to eat the crappie? What relationship would/could these two species have? Would he have a better chance with his crappie without any BG?

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I might just leave the crappie out if they are a problem. Im guessing thats why my uncle only put them in one of his ponds. Im only after LMB mostly anyways. Also what makes them so bad?

Last edited by thomasmgp; 12/11/12 03:39 PM.
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Originally Posted By: RockvilleMDAngler
Your largemouth won't eat all the bluegill if you stock the correct amounts, bluegill spawn throughout the spring and summer and provide lots of young-of-year for the bass to eat. If you want big bass you need to limit the number of bass you stock initially and go high on the bluegill stockings. If the bass are overcrowded you end up with some huge bluegills that the bass cannot eat and many stunted 8-10" bass. Those stunted bass eat all the newly hatched bluegill before they have a chance to grow and become a worthwhile meal.

Bottom line: Focus on your forage base first and get it established before adding predators. Patience now means a healthy and balanced pond for years to come. Trying to establish a forage base with predators present is VERY difficult and expensive. Instead of stocking 1000 2-3" bluegill which is affordable but won't make a dent in an 8 acre lake with bass, you have to stock 3000+ 5-8" bluegill that will survive predation but break your wallet. The cost is dramatically more expensive. If you stock your forage and wait several months before stocking predators you can buy less and smaller forage fish but get the same result as stocking three times that amount of full grown forage along with the bass at the same time.


Well time is all we got seeing how we probably wont fish it for 3 years. So if we dump in small bluegills first along with the flatheads and crayfish then I can add the bass 6-7 months later.

Last edited by thomasmgp; 12/11/12 03:43 PM.
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thomasmgp.... read all you can on here about your desired fish species, then read some more. Once fish are added, it can be hard to make corrections.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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I was thinking back to the crappie situation and it just hit me. My uncle has his only in a 4 acre pond. But every time we fished it all we caught was either crappie or bluegills. We were lucky if we caught 1 bass for an entire day of fishing. But if we went over to his other pond with no crappie...Bass city. So either they love the taste of bass fry or they were stocked first, grew to full size eating everything around them and thus ate all the food the bass would have eaten.

Just spoke with my dad. Crappie are out.

Last edited by thomasmgp; 12/11/12 04:21 PM.
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The problem with Crappie is that they spawn early, way before bass. They end up eating a lot of young bass and pretty much anything else that spawns in the spring. They have a tendency to take over.


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One species I havent thought of yet. What about catfish? But I guess they would compete too much with the bass for food since we always used bream to catch them. Id just like to have something in there I enjoy eating. I will eat bream and bass but just dont like them as much. Not much fun having a pond with nothing to fry up after a good day of fishing.

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thomasmgp: Have you read any of Bob Lusk's books, they are listed for sale elsewhere on this site. I would recommend "Basic Pond Management" as well as "Perfect Pond, Want One", as starters. In these books, and elsewhere on this forum in many blogs is what is a generally recommended stocking plan. Generally, although it varies by geographic area, you start with fathead minnows as soon as you have enough water to keep them alive, then later adding various sunfish like bluegill, red ear, etc., then even later largemouth bass. Current thinking is that adding channel catfish doesn't necessarily improve the other species in the pond, generally also they do not generate a reproducing stock of catfish. Most people stock catfish only if they like to fish for them or eat them, and do so on a put and take basis. Put in 100, catch many of them and then restock. Also the general thinking is that once a channel catfish is caught it should be removed because they get hookshy very fast. I think you have already been talked out of stocking Crappie so I won't comment on them, but I agree they have no place in a small lake or pond that is trying for a balanced fishery or a trophy largemouth lake.

Last edited by Bing; 12/11/12 05:31 PM. Reason: made a mistake in the third word. So much for not re reading before posting

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Hmm if catfish dont mess anything up I might just do that. Also when stocking if I add my bass gradually is that better than dumping them all in at once? Like when I stock my sunfish maybe stock a few bass as well. Then wait a several months while my bluegills can grow enough to not get eaten before stocking the rest? That should give the first bass some time to get big and start eating bluegills and crayfish while the newer and smaller bass feed on flatheads.

Also like shiners my dad is very against adding shad. Any reason not to? With Shad, Crayfish, and a healthy sunfish population that should produce some lunkers eventually. Also if we have shad I think using topwater baits will be more effective especially a zera spook.

Last edited by thomasmgp; 12/11/12 10:34 PM.
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I didn't say that "catfish don't mess anything up". They have their pluses and minuses.


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Well they sound better than crappie. Also I remember night fishing for them with my friends growing up. Loads of fun.

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Threadfin shad are wonderful. People with ponds further north (like myself) who cannot use them as they won't survive our winters, have to get more diverse forage to have a thriving forage base but we all wish we could just use threadfin. Threadfin shad are not to be confused with Gizzard Shad, threadfin stay small (4-7") and can be eaten by just about any predator while Gizzard Shad can grow to well over 20" and can overwhelm a pond.

http://www.overtonfisheries.com/StockerFish/ForageFish/ThreadfinShad/tabid/79/Default.aspx

Here is what Bob Lusk had to say about them in another thread:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...amp;Search=true

threadfins are a great idea. Here's why.
We all know that bluegill are the backbone of the food chain. They always have been and will continue to be the item of choice to raise largemouth bass. Threadfin shad are a great second choice in waters where they can live with the lowest risk of dying each winter. They are so prolific that they actually increase the odds of bluegill survival, thus "creating" a new food chain.
Threadfins move out into open water and bass will follow them for the chase. I have seen some fabulous topwater action in July from bass chasing shad in the middle of a lake. For each day a bass is suspended in the middle of a lake, the shoreline forage fish have another day to live and grow. When a lake has spawning threadfins, the statistical odds of bluegill survival increases. The main significance of that factor is that if a bluegill is eaten at 1" of length, that fish weighs less than one pound per thousand. But, if that same bluegill lives an additional four weeks and can grow to 2.5", it weighs at least 15-20 pounds per thousand. If it can make it to 45 days, it weighs 30-35 pounds per thousand and is a more significant forage fish for the size class of bass that needs it the most...those fish in the 15-18" sizes.


Other good links about shad:


http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=90319&fpart=1

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=25747&fpart=1

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=18993&fpart=1

Another good Bob Lusk quote:

Look at bluegill as the backbone of the food chain. They are the meat...the primary food for bass. While bluegill spawn several times a year, their numbers ebb and flow as spawning peaks and drops. While young bluegill grow into the food chain, they tend to congregate in shallow shoreline environments.
Threadfin shad live in open water, only congregating along the shoreline to spawn. The rest of the time, threadfins live and feed in open water. A plankton bloom is crucial to their success. Threadfins spawn continually, all summer long. Baby threadfins can begin having babies after about 90 days of maturing. Threadfins stay small, not growing larger than 7 inches.
The main reason they are an excellent forage fish to use for managing for giant bass is because they utilize an open niche in the lake/pond, are small enough for bass to catch and eat, reproduce as much or more than bluegill, and help increase survival of bluegill, so these backbone fish can keep up the pace as primary food source.
The down side is that threadfin die when water temperatures drop below 42 degrees.
It's not that threadfin are 'better' than coppernose bluegill, or that coppernose are 'lacking' anything at all. It's simply a matter of taking the primary productivity of a food chain and converting it to more fish for bass to eat. The addition of threadfin shad could reasonably double the volume of forage fish available to bass stocked with bluegill only. That's the reason.


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Anothe rvote for reading Bob Lusk's two books "Basic Pond Management" as well as "Perfect Pond, Want One". Definitely required reading. You've got an opportunity for an awsome fishery. Let these guys steer you in the right direction.

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Work on hold it seems while they do repairs on the trackhoe's thumb.

Last edited by thomasmgp; 12/20/12 05:38 AM.
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Finally back to work


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These guys are a bunch of comedians. They love leaving presents in front of my door, knocking, then running off to hide. This wasnt the first one. I have learned to open my door slowly and have a broom handle ready.


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No need for a broom handle for that one, it's already got an extra hole behind it's head. wink grin

Where's Todd when you need him? grin


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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Yes where is he? I think Todd should hire these guys for his next project!


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Is that a timber rattler? I've never seen one.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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I believe so Dave, no rattles.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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Havent even actually started digging and they are close to hitting water, especially in the middle, because the entire area is basically a giant bowl. When they got the dozer stuck a few times guess they decided to have some fun.


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Originally Posted By: spinnerbait
Yes where is he? I think Todd should hire these guys for his next project!


That's just sick right there, spinnerbait! grin


Todd La Neve

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Hey Scott, it does have rattles.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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This seemed like a good idea at first




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Are you using it for fish habitat........ there must be cheaper things to add than that. smile

Was that yours, or theirs?

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