Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Need some Serious Help!!

That is gonna be some big wire if it's 220 volts! It would be better to run high voltage that far and drop a transformer. Most power companies won't run 2 services to the same address. We had 2 services at our shop, but had a separate billing address for the added service.

9.5 cents per kwh is pretty decent. It's 0.142 up here now, and it's going up

It's not difficult to get 200 gpm up here. About a year and a half ago when I was doing research for another pump project, I ran across a well pump/motor combination that was 87.5% efficient. Motors were truly inverter duty with all the bells and whistles. I can't find it for anything. I thought it was a division of ITT, but didn't see anything like this. IIRC, that division/company was in process of being bought or sold. If I could only jar that brain cell loose

I also hate Google!!!

JKB, when you find it post it. I'll be researching the next few months for a well pump that is energy effecient that's in the 100 gpm range for a 6" casing (I can drill a 6" well 200' deep if needed).

http://www.topoquest.com/map.php?lat=33....omin&size=l


Here is an Areal of the Land and the lake... This was when it was full in 2009 and 2010..

Also check out the Topo and tell me what you think.

Now when viewing this Lake, Keep in mind TODAY it is 1/4 this size! The little pond is full. It might have dropped a foot total, but thats about it.

Just going with the math and Wisdom from Tums. Here is what I come up with.

I am 12 feet down... Right at 9.5 acres of water. That Comes up to 114 acre feet of water.

I multiply this 114 by (326,000 us gal) I get about 38,000,000 gal rounded up! So this is the total amount of gallons I need..

Now lets say I get a pump (Well or stream) of 100 gallons per minute. Doing the math I get about 28 days to fill this lake.. Thats not bad at all! The Million dollar question is. How Do I get a well or pump to pump at LEAST 100 gallons per minute?

Is 100 gallons per minute a stretch??? what 200 gallons per minute?

I've been searching for hours again this morning. I am thinking it got absorbed into another brand. This was an agricultural/industrial unit, 3 phase, inverter duty.

A 4" trash pump could give you aprox 300 to 400 gallons per minute. They move alot of water. You do have to consider how far and how much you lift the water. That will ultimately determine the amount that can be pumped.

Well an interesting developement I have discovered I only have a 7.5 hp pump unless the backup I have sitting on a pallet is different. Any way it is the pump which was pulled from the well (Electrical storm run in on it) when the 438 GPM estimate was made. It is a Franklin Electric Model 2261119020 7.5 hp pump and should be linked back to the information. I know that to absolutly accurate as I read the information of the pump myself this morning.

Edit just got thru talking with the man that put the pump in. My memory has not went bad on me yet. I do have a 10 HP Franklin Electric pump model number 2366529020. So no wonder it seems to me I have been getting more than 438 GPM. I did upgrade when I pulled the other pump many years ago.
Anyway the pipe is not anchored down as it will jump when the force of the water hits the 90 degree turn at the top. Attached to the 90 degree is a distribution box for 3 4" outlets. The middle one is used for the pond as I did not want anymore direction change to slow volume down. After about 1' it runs into a 4" ball valve so I can cut it off to prevent back flow on the pump when I shut it down. Out of that it immediatly change into a 6" dia. schedule 80 sewer grade with a 22 down turn to prevent back pressure into the ground where it is 22 turned back to 6" to 10' drop for 100' (to keep from building back pressure) before splash system into the pond.

Your math is pretty much on target.
Here is another idea for you to think about. I have another pump I have for pumping out of creeks, ponds ect.... It pumps well over 1000 GPM and can run irrigation reels over a 1/4 mile away uphill. It is a modified Berkely irrigation pump made to run off of a tractor PTO. Alot of times when irrigation pumps go bad it is generally the engine and the pump is still in good shape. Best I remember I think I figured it took me around 10 gallons of diesel per water acre moved.

Remember that price is because I got it approved for agriculture usage and the electric company put a meter just for that pump only.

To find out what water you have in your area underground you can go to several peopel. The Local water authority should have some wells drilled to provide for the public and can probably get you going in the right direction. Also check with the local farmer office as they probably can direct you to some farmers that have big wells. Also you can check with the local well drilling services themselves as they generally have a pretty good ides of what can be done in that area. My same set up may not produce the same reults if you have to push water father. remember I am only pushing water about 10' upwards. I just got my numbers on the pump that is in my well and it is a 10 HP that is rated for 170 GPM and I am getting ruffly 3X more due to lack of head pressure. I have to go back and edit a previous post now with my new information.

Check with your local electric COOP. Here I think they will give you the first 5 light poles from the main line for free. Which would get you over half way there.

Also something else you may want to look into is what government / state programs you could qualify for. Here in Alabama right now you can get up to 20% of you total cost of a high volume electric well that can be used for agriculture irrigation purposes on your state tax refund. I think there is also a low int. rate loan program here to help with the financing thru the ASCS office.

I just got through talking with a well company localy here and they are saying the trick is to be able to find a the water... There is no way to know where the water is underground to drill. How did you find your water... They were talking about using a water witch.

Weegie board? Talk to you state geologist and don't waste time on gimicks and superstition!

They like to use a Water Witch as it takes the blame off of them if they miss. Take your faith on superstition, not our fault! It may work on water close to the surface as some people may be sensitive to things, or pick up on vegetation colors or plant life, but 200' down? I HIGHLY doubt it.

I do not participate with water witching and consider it unreliable.

Talked to the local water authority and they gave me a number to talk to a geologist for our area (tons of information came from there). I also called the local well drillers that had drilled wells in my neighborhood. They told me what they knew which was basically they hit water quick and there was plenty of it. The most helpful thing was there was one artesian well drilled in the area. That means there was a confined aquifer present close to me. Most Wells draw from the water table (saturated zone) and have to rely on water replenishing thru the soil. A confined aquifer is like free water pressure from an undergroud water source and is the best. I then decided to drill at the lowest point I could near to the pond keeping atlest 100' away upland (replenshing underground water generally moves the same way above ground water does is what I learned from the geologist). The closer to the water table you are the less head pressure the well will have and it will allow the pump to move more water (learned that from a good well man). I did not get my artesian well like I hoped for but the water table was only about 10' down. I went with a 8" well so I would have more water volume and 220' deep (below sea level)for volume and hoping to hit the confined aquifer. Had a guy come down from Birmingham that done landscaping irrigation systems that matched me a pump to the well. Got the best pricing on my pumps thru John Deere Landscapes.

BTW: I personally do not like the response you got from that person with that drilling company and if it was me I would scratch that person from my reliable information list. They could have been alot more helpful than telling you to cross some wands.

I've conducted a lot of geophysical surveys to identify drill sites for water wells. Once a local dowser was also given a shot and I was amazed at the amount of correllation between our picks. Hundreds of acres surveyed and several of my top targets were also identified by the dowser. Keep in mind we were not working over regional aquafers, but searching for intersections between water-bearing fractures in bedrock - specific spots. Hocus-Pocus? Perhaps...

Nowadays, I work for the state permitting private water wells and other stuff and know all the drillers in the area. Almost all of them like to dowse a property before committing to a spot. Some are more serious about it than others and it doesn't work all the time, but most consider it "another tool".

So I wouldn't necessarily can a driller just because he carries a forked stick or a pair of wires or a nut on a string, but just like hiring any contractor you'll want to check out more than one. Then decide whether to go with the stream or try a well.

Vamez, I had a guy here at the house that'd "witch" with 2 bent coat hangers. He showed me how to do it and it was eerie, but it worked. It'd also show underground utility wires (electric).

If I hadn't of done it with my own 2 hands I'd say B.S. I'm a believer now.

Vamaz, you have perked my curiosity - what geophysical method did you utilize to identify the "water-bearing fractures in bedrock" for drill sites?
What numeric correlation on "dowser" water vs. dry holes"?

Thank you,
George Glazener
Emeritus member- Society of Exploration Geophysicists

George - we were doing VLF surveys. Quality of data was usually the best if we had a fracture trace analysis to work off of.

IIRC, there were 3 locations selected using both methods, but the client chose only one of them to drill. They were hoping for enouggh water to supply a vacation resort up in the Catskills in NY. They got somewhere around 70 gpm from that well, but it was too far away and not enough yeild to use for the lodge. It was right by their golf course though, so they ended up using it for irrigation.

Esshup - it really is a weird feeling. The first time I tried a forked branch, this driller showed me how to hold it correctly and then had me walk over a spot where he was predicting water. I couldn't believe how strongly the branch was being pulled down! If my eyes weren't open, I would have sworn he'd snuck up and was pulling it himself.

One of the things I don't understand about dowsing - and liquidsquid touched on this - is the fact that in cases where the water source is deep, the location where the response can be felt by the dowser is still typically very small. Whether its magnetics or conductivity or whatever that makes dowsing work, a shallow target will be detectable over a smaller area whereas a deeper target will be detectable over a broader area.

I too was a non believer for years until someone gave me some bent steel rods and showed me how to do it, and I must say it has since had a very good success rate. Mind you Iv'e only used it to locate water and electric lines for excavation purposes. But I'm now on the believer list.

1/8" diameter 308L stainless steel TIG rod is my choice. My BIL made an improvement by cutting up some aluminum arrows and making handle sleeves. Everyone has a deluxe set now

The tip section of a light wt fishing pole works well for determining how deep things are.

Vamaz, I continue skeptical of “dowser” methods of water well site evaluation, but admit absolutely no experience. I believe that they may sometimes work in area of abundant shallow waster areas such as Scott’s shallow aquafer ponds, and scarce in my area of no shallow wells where cisterns were of common usage - law of averages.

There are many rock and fluid property variables in Electromagnetic geophysical methods that it would be difficult to differentiate conductive properties except in very shallow strata IMO.

The only documented case of dowsers on this forum IIRC, is DIED’s experience in California. His dowser drilled a dry hole.
DIED is a geologist with extensive experience, the son of a NASA geologist.

Scott, bring your dowser rods to Brian’s place and let’s have some fun around his wells and springs - then we can test them in East Delta County where no shallow wells exist.
I’m bring my map….
George

ps: check the map - Woods County has major aquafer - East Dalta County has zilch - I can douse in those counties - ain't no dumb "dowsers"...

I don't blame anybody for doubting it, it is a phenomenon that I don't think has ever been satisfactorily explained.

JKB - how do you determine depth with the rod tip?

At the risk of alienating some, I will try to use a little logic and common sense. If someone could demonstrate that "witching" actually worked more often than random chance, don't you think that they would have done this? Imagine the money they would make on talkshow appearences alone. Many have tried, all have failed. The experiments are not that hard to conduct, and they have taken many forms. Witching is as good as picking any random spot and drilling in every experiment ever conducted (replicated and blinded). We all believe in things that are not supported by evidence (or refuted by it in this case), and that is OK. Many people play the lottery using a "system" too. If it entertains someone, well that is their choice.