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Joined: Jun 2007
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame  Lunker
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
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I just arrived in Connecticut to see my grandkids...ages 5 and 6.....it could have been my grandson in that kindergarten class....
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Hall of Fame 2014
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Hall of Fame 2014
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I just arrived in Connecticut to see my grandkids...ages 5 and 6.....
it could have been my grandson in that kindergarten class.... 
Fishing has never been about the fish....
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Joined: May 2012
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Hall of Fame
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Hall of Fame
Joined: May 2012
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Most of my freinds including me are CCW. I am ordering my new AR this week while I still can. This tragedy should not be made polical, but the way our media is it will be. Sad Sad Sad! I Agee with what was said above to stop glamorizing these people and start talking about the heros of that day. They actually said in a CNN artical I read today that he was not buzzed in. He used his assault weapon to get in, because that is the type of stuff you can do with an assault weapon. Really! A bowling ball could take a school door out.
If you ain't gonna fart, why eat the beans?  . RES,HBG,YP,HSB,SMB,CC,and FHM. .seasonal trout.
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Maybe black gun talk should be saved for another thread.
AL
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Joined: May 2012
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Hall of Fame
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Hall of Fame
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Prob so Fireishot. I just wish stupid people would stop doing stupid things.
If you ain't gonna fart, why eat the beans? . RES,HBG,YP,HSB,SMB,CC,and FHM. .seasonal trout.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame Lunker
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Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458 Likes: 2 |
It's funny, as a police officer I obviously know many other police officers. 90%+ of us are as big a gun supporters as anyone. Most of us think gun control is a joke. What is the issue is the break down of the American mental health system... Lack of funding and lack of ideas and solutions to difficult challenges.
I don't agree with most of Morgan Freeman's political views, however in this statement, I think he hit the nail dead on the head!
TURN OFF THE NEWS.......
Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :
"You want to know why? This may sound cynical, but here's why.
It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.
CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.
You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,746 Likes: 294
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,746 Likes: 294 |
Let's stay civil with each other and perhaps we can learn from each other on such a serious topic.
Each side has valid points, so we have to respect that.
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
To add insult to injury the Westboro Baptist Church is coming to the funerals at Sandy Hook. However thanks to the Anonymous hackers they may not be able to use their credit cards and now everyone knows where they live. http://www.salon.com/2012/12/16/anonymous_hit_westboro_baptist_church_over_sandy_hook_picket_plans/
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 12/16/12 09:37 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
It's funny, as a police officer I obviously know many other police officers. 90%+ of us are as big a gun supporters as anyone. Most of us think gun control is a joke. What is the issue is the break down of the American mental health system... Lack of funding and lack of ideas and solutions to difficult challenges.
I don't agree with most of Morgan Freeman's political views, however in this statement, I think he hit the nail dead on the head!
TURN OFF THE NEWS.......
Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :
"You want to know why? This may sound cynical, but here's why.
It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.
CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.
You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Joined: Mar 2011
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I'm ordering my AR-15 from Stag Arms through an FFL dealer right after Christmas. While it me not be in vogue right now, I want to get mine before guns sales are clamped down. This country and its moralities are spiraling out of control. I want to be able to at least protect my family while I still can.
 Warning: My Dog Has A Gun And Refuses To Take His Meds!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,053 Likes: 277
Moderator Lunker
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Moderator Lunker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,053 Likes: 277 |
It's shocking and unfathomable. But those are just words. I have 3 children, 7 grandchildren and 4 great grandchildren.
I'm almost ashamed to say that one of my first thoughts was that the tools would be blamed. I've been in politics but I'll stop there because we don't do politics here.
Do I blame the auto makers for the drunk driver? Do I blame the booze industry? Do I blame the liquor store or bartender? Of course not.
Do I blame the restaurant and food industry for my high cholesterol? Nope.
Will we put a stop to the movie industry making films showing unseemly behavior and violence? According to statistics, nothing else sells. I doubt that any changes will come there.
How about video games that show the purchaser, usually young people, an unrealistic view of life and death? Not much else sells there and demand will keep changes from occurring.
I'm told by the cops that way over 90% of theft is narcotics related. Can I blame the weed, the pill or the needle for my loss? It's easy to do but I really can't blame their existence for human frailty.
I heard on the news that we are a violent people but we know that only a very tiny minority are violent towards others. And, we have already outlawed that.
Can I blame the school because Johnny can't read? Not really.
I'm not smart enough to enact the answers to societal problems. But I know that most of these problems didn't exist when I was the age of the victims.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979 Likes: 14
Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979 Likes: 14 |
There's a lot that's been said in this thread that I would like to comment on. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how I can do that and remain within the forum guidelines, while still honoring the memories of the innocent.
So, I will exercise restraint, and pray for the friends and families who have to endure the unspeakable.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,312 Likes: 300
Moderator
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Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,312 Likes: 300 |
To me the cause in incidents like this is a simple one. These people have distanced themselves from humanity, and humanity has rules. Whether it's caused by mental illness, drugs, bullying, the result is the same. Humans have no value because these people feel separated from it. Other humans become "things", much like any object setting on a table.
Most often there are warning signs, but when and who is the ultimate decision maker when a kid quits becoming disenfranchised, and becomes a threat? The state? A teacher with 40 kids in a classroom? A parent who's love for their child skews a decision that may be clearer for a stranger on the street? These are tough questions, and I'm not sure there will ever be a clear cut answer.
I know it may sound cliched, but hug your kids, listen to your kids, and teach them the value of life.
AL
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,012
Hall of Fame
Junior Member
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Hall of Fame
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
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I don't believe in gun control, either. But, how do you stop one infamy seeking idiot with 3 semi-automatic pistols from wrecking the lives of 100s of innocent people including grade schoolers?
I agree that denying attention to the idiots would work but mass media communications and TV will never stop.
I wish I knew how to make a positive difference to battle the "evil" but, frankly, in this situation as in the others, I feel helpless.
1 ac pond LMB, BG, RES, CC 
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,531 Likes: 838
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,531 Likes: 838 |
I don't believe in gun control, either. But, how do you stop one infamy seeking idiot with 3 semi-automatic pistols from wrecking the lives of 100s of innocent people including grade schoolers? Here's one way. It worked in Israel.  Things that rarely make the national news: Many of these mass shootings stop just as soon as someone with a gun shows up. "Responsible gun owners can and do prevent mass shootings from occurring and escalating. A 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, Miss., was halted by the school's vice principal after he retrieved the Colt .45 he kept in his truck. A 1998 middle school shooting ended when a man living next door heard gunfire and apprehended the shooter with his shotgun. A 2002 terrorist attack at an Israeli school was quickly stopped by an armed teacher and a school guard. A 2002 law school shooting in Grundy, Va., came to an abrupt conclusion when students carrying firearms confronted the shooter. A 2007 mall shooting in Ogden, Utah, ended when an armed off-duty police officer intervened. A 2009 workplace shooting in Houston, Texas, was halted by two coworkers who carried concealed handguns. A 2012 church shooting in Aurora, Colo., was stopped by a member of the congregation carrying a gun. At the recent mall shooting in Portland, Ore., the gunman took his own life minutes after being confronted by a shopper carrying a concealed weapon."
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794 |
I'm not cold bloodied or indifferent to the trauma and suffering of the families and children, but if you put it on a statiscal basis the odds of this occuring to your child or grandchild, would be greater than winning the powerball lottery.
The "media" sensationalizes these events to extent of folks believing they are commonplace.
I have tears in my eyes for the little children returning to classes this morning.
N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,722 Likes: 282
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,722 Likes: 282 |
I tend to find any increased regulation distasteful, but I would support single shot weapons for all deer hunting to keep "swiss-cheese" hunters out of the woods. The victim's families will always have a shadow over them, and no one can change that. While a bit political, if we had less government madated "charity", communities and churches would return to taking this on at a local level, and more folks would support local charities. It is this type of effort that can help disturbed people get help, not "cookie-cutter" government programs.
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 721
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Joined: Sep 2012
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,105
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Member
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I didn't tear up when my dad died but I did for these little girls. Something is terribly wrong in this country. Pick any large city in the U.S. and I think you will find more gun deaths in it in a year then the whole of any civilized western country. I probably go back further then anyone here except George, when there were maybe 1/20th of the amount of guns in our society then now. No one had anything like an assault rifle or 30 ammo clips and I never heard anyone express the thought that THEY were going to take our guns away. Every time we have a tragic mass shooting, what happens? AR-14s and AR-15's etc. go flying off the shelves and the ammunitions maker go into three shifts seven days a week meeting demand.
I was in a medium size city here in Indiana and I told my son in law I was thinking about buying a handgun. He took me to a house near him where he got me a 38 special, cheap. The surprising thing is the guy was building replicas of .30 and 50. Caliber working machine guns selling for thousands of dollars that had been preordered. I worked with a guy that belonged to Civil Defense and he told me he could get a working 3.5 rocket launcher in 20 minutes.
I'm not anti gun but not gun nuts. I was hunting with a .410 that my grandfather left me when I was 10. I now own the 38 special, a 16-gage shotgun and my prize gun is a hand built bench rifle by my uncle.
I always remember a TV episode, All In The Family, where Archie Bunker solved the high jacking problem. Give everyone a Tommy gun when they boarded an airplane and if someone tried to highjack the plane then everyone would blast him.
The evening national news said one million people have been killed by guns since the assanation of Jack Kennedy.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,531 Likes: 838
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,531 Likes: 838 |
Personally I don't believe everything that I hear on the news.
USA stats only.
Just take one year, 2007, as an example. Firearm related deaths - with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide.
41,059 deaths via motor vehicle that same year.
It only took until 1983 to surpass the same figure that you heard on the news with motor vehicle deaths.
Anybody that is a news person or a Statistician please don't be offended, as I don't trust either of them.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,596 Likes: 36
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,596 Likes: 36 |
Shamelessly stolen from another forum, I am not religious but thought this was worth sharing.
Sandy Hook Elementary School
Twas’ 11 days before Christmas, around 9:38
When 20 beautiful children stormed through Heaven’s gate.
Their smiles were contagious, their laughter filled the air.
They could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there.
They were filled with such joy; they didn’t know what to say.
They remembered nothing of what had happened earlier that day.
“Where are we?” asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse.
“This is heaven” declared a small boy. “We’re spending Christmas at God’s house”.
When what to their wondering eyes did appear,
But Jesus, their Savior, the children gathered near.
He looked at them and smiled, and they smiled just the same.
Then He opened His arms and He called them by name.
And in that moment was joy, that only Heaven can bring
Those children all flew into the arms of their King.
And as they lingered in the warmth of His embrace,
One small girl turned and looked at Jesus’ face.
And as if He could read all the questions she had
He gently whispered to her, “I’ll take care of Mom and Dad.”
Then He looked down on Earth, at the world far below
He saw all of the hurt, the sorrow, and woe.
Then He closed His eyes and He outstretched His hand,
“Let My power and presence re-enter this land!
May this country be delivered from the hands of fools
“I’m taking back my nation. I’m taking back my schools! ”
Then He and the children stood up without a sound.
“Come now my children let me show you around.”
Excitement filled the space, some skipped and some ran.
All displaying enthusiasm that only a small child can.
And I heard Him proclaim as He walked out of sight,
“In the midst of this darkness, I AM STILL THE LIGHT.”
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
I haven't seen this in the mainstream news. Glad to see it didn't happen. Perhaps even they realized it would have been a very bad idea.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
We have poilice watching in most public places, why not have some patrolling the halls of schools? There are at least 100,000 schools in the nation not counting the separate buildings on the campuses. Sounds like a daunting task to me, but then again if it's done from the local level... I found this food for thought from another forum I frequent:
The Violence Policy Centre said that Columbine High School in Colorado had armed law enforcement agents on call when two teenagers, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, embarked on a shooting spree in 1999. The agents were unable to prevent the deaths of 12 students and one teacher. They were "outgunned by the assault weapons wielded by the two teens", the VPC said.
Similarly, Virginia Tech had armed police on campus who were unable to prevent the deaths of 32 people in a mass shooting in 2007.Cost At a time when the US is trying to reduce government spending, the move would present a further bill to taxpayers, potentially running into billions of dollars. There are some 98,817 public and 33,366 private schools in the US, according to the department of education.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average pay for a police officer is $55,010 per annum.
In that case, a crude estimate for the overall bill for the placing of an armed guard in every US school could be as much as $7.2bn. If the government only had to cover public schools, the total could be a minimum of $5.4bn.
Even if the NRA was to claim that such officers could be redeployed during the summer break, it would still mean that the equivalent of around 74,000 positions would need to be filled – at a cost of $4.1bnFunny we can fund far off wars but we can't fund our own defenseless children. Oh the irony.
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 12/21/12 09:44 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,493 Likes: 266
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,493 Likes: 266 |
Let's keep the politics out of this.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,544
Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Sep 2009
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Too late.. This has become a political spring board for our government.. Despicable and sickening..
I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease.. BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.
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