Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Help Precipitation rates?

Guys when you look at precipitation values for areas does it include both rain and snow or only rain? For example when you say 100 inch precipitation in January, does it mean 100 inch of water that comes from only rain or that comes from snow also?

Here in North America, snow fall amounts are measured two different ways. The actual snow depth is measured and recorded as snow. Weather stations then melt this amount of snow and measure the water quantity. The same is done with hail and sleet. It is the melted equivalent that is used to record average/mean/median precipitation amounts for a geographic location.

Thanks Catmandoo. I think you are one of masters about ponds. So here a have a question about precipitations.

My city precipitation for 1 year is 600 mm(Or 600 kg/square meter) . And evaporation for 1 year is 1200 mm ( Or 600 kg/square meter).

If i have 1 square meter pool. And there is 1000 kg of water in it which means 1 meter depth of water. Let's say we leave this pool in my city for 1 year.

There will be 600 mm precipitation and 1200 mm evaporation. Which means i will have 600 mm loss which is 60 cm which is 0,6 meters. So at the end of the year, my pool will have only 40 cm of water , which is 400 kg. So, every year , for every square meter i will need to add 400 kg(or liter) of water.

Is that calculation right?

Fatih, that's why the majority of ponds constructed here are in areas that receive surface water run-off from the surrounding ground during larger rain storms. For an example, depending on the location of the pond, and the type of soil surrounding the pond, 5mm of rain could add 20mm to the ponds water depth.

I once heard that 10 inches of snow equals one inch of rain.

Do you mean there is a steep that is toward the lake and that steep conveys water to lake?

In lakes/ponds the water entering from surrounding ground area from the rain is called the watershed area. The % of water running off that area is called the Runoff Coefficentand depends on what surface is present on that area. Also the larger the amount of this area the more water you will recieve from the watershed. Steepness on the watershed tends to increase the velocity of the water running off and will often lead to sediment being delivered from your watershed area to your lake/pond.

Wow , i should definitely consider using that watershed area. What angle is ideal for that Tums? I mean i guess having sediment in your pond is not a desirable thing. Is it? How to control that?

And i have 1 doubt in my mind: The soil of my city drains water perfectly. And i think maybe the water that falls on the ground will be sucked by the water and not be conveyed to my lake. What do you think?

The angle depends on what material or vegatation is present that would make sediment movement less of an issue. Sediment will fill in your pond decreasing the depth in the form of silt. Even when your soil pretty much takes up the rain that falls you can design features that will put runoff into you pond. Say for instance you build a covered area for celebrations the water from the roof could be diverted into piping off the roof and into the pond. In areas with less rainfall I encourage people to use their imagination about how to divert water for useful purposes. If you know rain is coming and just simply lay out a roll of plastic next to the pond nearly all of the water that hits the plastic will go into the pond. I learned alot of how to think differently about how to get useful water when I spent time in a area that got less than 6.5" (165 MM) of annual rainfall.

Thanks Tums. I completely get it.

I still want to hear your 165 mm rainfall place story. It must be interesting. If there isn't a creek around, it is impossible, isn't it ? Actually your story might be a great lesson for me. In my city , 600 mm rain and 1200 mm evaporation. How bad is that you think? Can i survive just with well and city water?

The 165 mm area (near Bakersfield, CA in 1990) was educational related about learning ways of collecting, holding, and distributing water for irrigation purposes.
You are saying that In your area you Basically get near 2 feet of rain per year and lose near 4 feet to evaporation. On a 1/2 acre lake that means you will need a minimum of ruffly 326,000 US gallons of well water to make up the difference of the evaporation to rain ratios alone. Here we can not use city water because of the chemicals in the water will cause a fish kill. SO be careful about using city water. You will also need to know if your water table in the area will be able to support that much well usage. Remember also that you useing a well alot can cause shallower nearby wells to run out of water. I personally own a well that pumps over 630,000 US gallons per day. The other unknows is how much more water are you going to need to cover for other ways of loss like, Seepage, animals usage, vegatation usage. ect.... One thing I have learned in my days as that nearly anything is possible with enough means. In the end you are going to have to decide is having the 1/2 acre pond worth what it will it will take you to have it. I imagine there is several pond owners on here that have ponds that recieve near the same amount of annual rainfall that you do. Hopefully some of them will see this and post some helpful information from there personal experience,

630,000 gallons per day. That's amazing.

Tums, what part of AL. Pump me a days' worth and I'll be full? I've got a hose set up out at street...

Generally yes. But it depends on how wet the snow is. It can be less or more. If the snow is really dry, almost powder like, that number can jump to 30 inches to one inch of rain.

Tums seriously, 630,000 gallons means that if i use that well half a day in whole year, i won't need to worry anymore.

Here , we have city water with chemicals as well but as long as you don't add a huge percent of water to your pond in one day, it is not gonna hurt any fish. For aquariums we use city water. The water needs to rest 1 day , if you will change some big amount of the water. But i think you don't have any more chemicals than we do. So you should have the same situation. If i can use city water, even if my well runs out of water, i can use city water and that will cost me about 2000 dollars to recover whole year's need. 1,000 gallon price is 7 dollars here.

And Tums, we don't have any natural beauties in my city. No rivers, no lakes. Just a couple of dams, just for agricultural reasons. No good fish, no trees around it. So , this pond is worth everything for me! It is so important...

Fatih, you're building your own oasis.

Hey, you guys check my math on this. I was a business major in college and we didn't learn a lot of arithmetic.

OK, 1 inch of water over one acre is approximately 27,000 gallons

Thus, 1/2 acre is 13,500 gallons per square inch.

If we assume an average depth of 6 ft(72 inches) we come up with 72 times 13,500 which is 972,000 gallons.

$7.00 per 1,000 gallons is 7x972 or $6,804 to fill it with purchased water.

Somehow, it feels like I'm missing something. Am I?

When my well was dug it was measured at 438 US gallons per minute. That is 26,280 per hr or 630,720 us gallons per day. I took 14 days this last summer to fill my 3 acre pond at the cost of about $500. Have the electric meter on agriculture pricing. BTW a foot of water over 1 acre is 325,851 gallons.

Fatih the problem is the chemicals do not kill the fish directly. The chemicals kill the Algea & other aquatic vegetation first. The decay process from the dead stuff often removes to much oxygen from the water in a pond envroment. I had this happen when they local water athority had to let some water out of a line a 1/4 mile up hill from my 1/2 acre pond. The runoff made it into the spring that fed into my pond. I did not discover what had happened until the water sample I pulled from the pond after seeing cat fish come up gullping for air came back with traces of chlorine. I am not saying it can not be done in small quantities. I am just saying you will need to be careful in how you do it.

Rmedger I am between Troy and Enterprise just outside of Troy. I have a connection to hook a hose for the fire water truck if need be. A full 18 wheel tanker holds just over 6,000 gallons, so I can have you loaded in about 15 minutes at the cost of about 25 cents for electric use.

Dave the well is 8" with a 10 hp pump. I am around 180' above see level and have it cased around 220' and pump from around 210' down (30 to 40' below sea level. I actually believe I am currently pumping more than what it was originally tested at. The water level is currently about 5' to 10' down from the top of the well.

Fatih you are truly going to have an oasis. Without much vegetation around you may consider putting in some kind of artificial turf around the pond and have the rain that lands on it diverted into the pond. Simply math says you would need about 1/2 acre diverted to your pond to mke up for the evaporation. Reallity is it is never just that simply as you will probably be getting to much water when you do not need it instead of when you do need it.

All I can say is WOW!!! That is incredible.....

Tums, I'll give you $25,000 to haul that well to North Texas.

If you got the water there under ground to support it you can probably get one done for around 15K. I was talking on here with someone about it about 2 months ago and that was the neighborhood of their quote for one.

Sounds about right on the price as it's very close to what I was told for the same sized well a few months ago.

I see Tums. I get everything you say. I hope i can find a way to use city water efficiently.

What do you mean "without much vegetation" ? I want plants all around it. And honestly i don't want any artificial component involved . Does turf look ugly?

Guys , here is my new topic. We can keep going ower there http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=314984&#Post314984

I guess what I was saying in a way is that when you build the pond the dirt work will wipe out the vegetation. If you wanted to install artificial grass (which by the way now days looks pretty and almost real) it would be the time to do it. The real vegetation around your pond is going to be drawing its moisture / water from your pond. If you want the real stuff there is nothing at all wrong with that.

Here is a pick of a back yard done in artificial grass.