Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss Metal Building/Apartment Question.

I have a insulated 40'x50'x14' building and been thinking about building a one bedroom apartment in it (for me). When I had the building built I was thinking ahead and added a full bath, office and an area for a kitchen. The building has 200amp service, HVAC and plumbing, the only thing it's miss is a bedroom.

My question is…..has anyone ever lived in one? What are the pros and cons?

Yep, that's what we did at the farm.

To many pluses to list them all, but here's a few. It's super insulated, decked above apt for less storage loss, no increase in taxes since new structure wasn't added, and exterior pretty much maintenance free.

Only real issue was plumbing. Since we already had the bathroom, we had to pretty much had to set the kitchen close to the existing water lines, because we didn't want to dig up the slab.

40X50 is the exact same size as the building we put it in, and we had room for 2 bedrooms, and still had enough room to pull a car in the back, and a shop.

If I remember, I'll take pics tomorrow when I go down.

Yeah it is just a little different might take a bit of an adjustment if you are used to living in a house.

My wife and I are in the planning stage of a similar project except with a little bigger shed (60x70) and a 3 bedrooom living area. We got the idea from a friend who built a shed a 2 bedroom living area as FireIsHot.

The main appeal to me was having all of the equipment (tractors, implements, boat, etc.) under the same roof so accessible without going out of doors.

FireIsHot,
Are you saying you built the shed portion first so your tax burden is based on that then added the living space later?

Just curious, how so?

DJS, that was our experience. The taxes stayed the same, but it may be different other places. Not sure if it was a don't ask to tell thing, but obviously we had all the permits for the remodel.

You guys should see this thread. Outstanding and on point.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=272081&page=1

Eric, that is very nice. The safe/gun room has me thinking now.

It works that way here also. The tax assessor comes out and looks at the initial exiating structure. The tax assessor here does not come back for remodels unless work is done outside the initial walls (without being requested to by the property owner). Check about permitting requirements in you area as you may not even hardly need any. In my area (outside city limits) no permits are required for the structure as long as the property is for private personal use (not for resale within 3 years, business, or renting) and the property owner is supervising the work. These same laws allowed me to be my own contractor building my house and it saved alot of money. I came in at atleast 61K under what my cheapest quote on my house plans was for. I had added tens of thousands in extras in interior changes that was not in the quotes either. I also used that actual cost to get my property taxes lowered. I simply requested a meeting with the Tax assessor and his supervisor about their valued amount after being assessed. I showed them the exact amount it took to build and they lowered my property taxes by 100K of the 120K they where showing above what it took me to build the structure. The only permit that was required I buy while building my house was for the septic tank system.

Ditto

Hey, I know that place

you need to go back to that thread and add some "done" pics so we can whip up some inspired motivation.

I'll take some this weekend and post them the 1st of next week. I'd do it from the farm but my connection there is slow at best.

My shop had a small apartment in the front building. (no kitchen tho) I stayed there for about 4 years. It took some getting use to, but hey, I was never late for work Really was not legal for me to live there tho, (zoned Industrial) and luckily moved out several weeks before the gestapo arrived. They were convinced that someone was living there. They interviewed all the neighbors, and my friends set them straight!

My abode in planning is a garage with a loft apartment. Finally legal to do that now at my new property. Minimum requirements are 840 sq ft of living space, 2ft overhangs and nothing narrower than 24 feet wide. (of course, all the other code stuff)

Make sure you have plenty of windows tho. Biggest drawback I had at the shop apt. One tiny window. Probably why the gestapo never found out!

JKB, ain't kidding! The absolute best thing we did was add enough windows. There's no way to overcome the basement feel of a metal building without enough natural light.

Speaking of our residences at the pond...(that some of us do not live at full time) are there any novel ideas any of you have incorporated to make burglary less likely? We may build a small cottage or cabin next year and we were trying to think of little things we might do to make it harder to break in.

Of course nothing is fool-proof..the bad guys can break in banks and Fort Knox if they are determined enough. But what about like heavy duty shutters on windows? Metal doors? cameras, nosey neighbors? I was even thinking of somehow making the flat screen TV somehow made into the walls...or would it be cheaper just to let the thieves grab them easy and let insurance pay for the replacements?

ps: sorry if this is too much thread drift

I'm working on the same thing Mark. I've got some ideas, but I'll wait to relate that til I can flesh them out.

I really hate to say this, but in our case I'm not sure anything but incredibly loud noise will work as a deterrent. Craig's List takes the pawn shops out of the equation, and I'm sure you know that Crystal Meth usage has really exploded around here. Rural Sheriff's departments will tell you that CM has greatly increased crime.

Evil Doers want things that can be turned quickly, and carried easily. Most rural property owners have some type of utility trailer, and that makes their job that much easier.

This is a tough nut to crack.

Al I wonder if making it really tough to drive up to the cabin might work?...if there is only one way to drive in...make the gate very secure and hope the burglars are too lazy to carry stuff several hundred yards to their vehicle if they had to jump the fence?

Mark I'm not sure about the gate. I don't know if a gate secured with a logging chain says I'm secure, or I'm gone.

But I think you're right on point about inconvenience. If it's difficult to get in and out quickly, then hopefully thieves would move on to someplace easier.

Mark, here's my thoughts - fancy gates with ranch names in bold letters invite thieves and trespassers.

At one time our camphouse was visable from the highway.
It was broken into and cleaned us out!
Lost all tools, stove and utensiles, table I built in high school shop, trophy deer mount, personal items - still makes me sick.
That was more than thirty years ago.

We let the brush and trees grow and took off my fancy G/ brand and let the gate go into disrepair. Now I even have to hunt for the entry way!

No one even knows it's there except a near neighbor.
No trespassers or breakin since!
George

I put a solar operated farm gate at the end of my driveway. Very convenient. Cost about $1000, but affords a bit of security. Also have a sign that says "Smile for the cameras". I've been asked about the signs and all I say is there are cameras around the property.
Especially effective when you can tell someone that I saw you stopped by. Word gets around about security.

Just so you know I had an employee that last year had his insurance canceled after his 3rd claim (guns & TV's stolen on 3rd claim). He Said it cost him alot more to get new insurance also.

This is great info for me. I don't know how I missed the Cisco's original thread???

I'll have to check into the building codes in the Miss. county I plan to build.

What was the reason for the questions about epoxying the garage floor? decay or water seepage???

Tums is right. I had trees fall on my house 3 different times over a 3 year span. The company that insured this house and every other house, building, & business that I had bought over a 35 year period canceled my home insurance because I had 4 claims - the 4th "claim" was when someone broke a window out of my car and stole a computer. When I called my agent she said don't file a claim because it might effect your insurance. So I didn't, but they still said this was a "claim" and so the records showed I had four claims and the &*%$#@#@s cancelled my homeowners. Naturally, I told them to %^&$#@#$*^% and cancelled them. It was much harder and more expensive to get new homeowners insurance when I bought my new house.

Epoxy allows you to clean up stuff that would normally have stained the concrete. IE petroleum products, dirt, ect... Not to mention looks better also. I toured a facility last week that floors looked cleaner than most peoples counters.

Epoxy floors are great. Just make sure to have enough anti-slip in the epoxy. You can't add it later......

Don't get the cheap water based stuff tho!

I doubt you will find a high quality Epoxy for concrete floors in a big box store!

Correct. Pay attention to the % of solids content. More is better. Do research on line then find who sells the stuff that you want. DON'T mix up a big batch the first time.....

Is there a special kind of epoxy for concrete?

Try this: http://www.epoxy-coat.com/

-RFL

Looks like it'll cost me about $900 for 2000 sq. ft.

If this is a future project, keep in mind that there are different types of concrete for outdoor vs. indoor use, and a host of additives that will affect the outcome of both mixes.

Also make sure that the finisher knows that you will be epoxy coating the floor.....you don't want, or need a "slick" finish for a future epoxy coating, and you absolutely don't want a sealer applied, which is fairly common on indoor concrete.

Yes I have even seen it stained to match an oak floor then coated.

sprkplug, Is concrete sealing similar to epoxy coating?

eric, you are saying concrete can be stained then epoxied?

There are so many things that can be done to concrete you need an expert to know all the possibilities. I have seen it colored and coated to look somewhat like a wood floor. Not sure about the products specifics.

There are epoxy concrete sealers, but not all of them are....lots of times sealers are used to give a "slick" finish to the concrete's surface, and it can also prevent water from absorbing into the concrete, and make cleaning the floor, even running a dust mop over top of it, much easier.

The problem lies in the types of sealers.... a transparent sealer is used where the beauty of the concrete is to be emphasized, such as exposed aggregate. If you want the sealer itself to be the finish, then there are epoxy coatings that will both seal, and cover the concrete.

Most times, once a transparent sealer is used, very little else will adhere to it....and it can be quite slippery, especially when wet.

Talk to your finisher, and tell him/her what you want.... they can recommend a product that will do exactly what you expect.

Being a recipient of the vast amount of information and advice you all graciously offer on PB, maybe now I can be a contributor. It's on the exciting subject of insurance but pertains to us all, especially for those who don't reside on their land.

Tums and Rmedgar are both correct on the cancellation of policies with multiple claims and the frustration of dealing with that, let alone finding a new carrier.

I have 25+ years in the business and I'm not writing in defense of the insurance industry, but merely to offer some insight from their perspective and the direction they've taken (or changed) from past years. There's many aspects of this business I don't agree with but hey, I'm a just small fish in a big pond (pun intended).

1.Homeowners insurance is an unprofitable line for all carriers. They just can't charge enough compared to claim-dollars paid out. This is why it's becoming increasingly difficult (and expensive) to insure just a home without other supporting lines (auto, life, etc.), or if you've had previous losses. I know I wouldn't want to sell a product that I know I'm going to lose money on!

2. This industry thrives on statistics! For one, once a person files a claim, their likelyhood (statistically) increases to file another, therefore in the insurance company's eyes the risk has increased as well. "Frequency and severity" is another major factor, So even if you've filed 3 claims with nothing covered or paid out, it can/will still count against you (frequency issues).

3. "Matching price to risk" is the biggest turnaround/change I've seen over the past 5-7 years, mainly due to the vast amount of data available to insurers. Past/previous losses for the individual and/or the property being insured and many other factors including credit history are taken into account. If a property has been burglarized, vandalized, suffered wind/hail damage, etc., especially more than once, they already consider it a higher risk.

There's so much more I could write about, that is relative to pond and landowners (and homeowners) but this is getting long enough already. I've written to Bob regarding a class I recently attended on meth-lab cleanup regarding damages and cleanup costs and how it relates especially to unoccupied landowners, to see if he felt it would be appropriate to post here. He said he would do some research and possibly write about it in an upcoming issue of PB. Once a meth-lab has been discovered, from initial quarantine to the [chemical] contamination cleanup and the costs (consider your HVAC, drains, septic, grounds, pondwater contaminations, etc.), it's absolutely shocking!

So on the issue of security, consider the costs and consequences of filing insurance claims, cancelled policies and possibly a meth-lab cleanup issue which may NOT be covered.

I know there's only so much we can do, but in addition to a very loud siren I would consider a system (motion, doors, windows, etc.) that reports to a centralized station (like ADT), police or sheriff. Getting someone there ASAP is critical to preventing what could be a catastrophic loss.

I know we don't want a monthly monitoring bill, or to spend $500 for cameras, or $1,000, or more,,, but what could be the cost if we don't?

Sorry this got so long,

Keith

PM sent

Insurance agents can mess things up a bit.

For a while, I lived in Big Rapids, MI and had filed 3 claims. One was a total

Problem is, I never lived there!

Gal at the agency transposed someone elses stuff in my profile.

The original insurance agency could not fix this for anything. I don't even think they tried!

Cathy, at my new, but old agency, had it fixed within a couple hours.

Go Cathy!!!

Thanks, Keith! Very interesting.

I can't argue with that JKB! Go Cathy!