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#304765 - 08/28/12 08:53 AM Aeration pumps on the cheap
Eric Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 538
Loc: Rochester NY
Hey folks long long time no chat here. As a reminder I have a 1/8A pond in upstate NY. I have been using a homemade aeration system for the past 12 or so years. Finally the Gast 1532 pump died after that many years of solid use.

I went back to the vendor to see if they had any (C&H Sales) and they were out. I had purchsed for $40 originally now at any other site its about $500 for the same pump. Anyone have any other places for pumps? I am looking for a 1/10 hp 3.5 CuFt pump to pump air to a depth of 17 ft.

Thanks!!
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1/10 - 1/4 acre pond Upstate NY 14 ft deep


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#304810 - 08/28/12 03:31 PM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
Bill Cody Online   content
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12469
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Eric - I don't think you will locate a 1/10 hp pump of any kind that will produce 3.5cfm to a depth of 8-15 ft. Lesser cfm - yes. I dont think they make blowers in 1/10 hp and blowers typically put out air but to only abt 3 ft. PM me for options.


Edited by Bill Cody (08/28/12 03:32 PM)
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#305046 - 08/30/12 08:25 AM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
Eric Offline
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Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 538
Loc: Rochester NY
Hi Bill and thanks. The gast 1532 pump does meet hose specs. I was just curious if there were other pumps that did. I am looking to replace what I have with something similar.
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1/10 - 1/4 acre pond Upstate NY 14 ft deep


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#305049 - 08/30/12 08:43 AM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
Ted Lea FOREVERGREEN Offline
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Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 969
Loc: NA
I was under the impression that the Gast 1532 open flow was 1.059 cfm converted from 30 L/per min. ( I could be wrong)

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#305053 - 08/30/12 09:26 AM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
Bing Offline
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Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 1607
Loc: Fayette County Illinois
It sounds like Eric was fortunate to buy a Gast 1532 on steroids and got 12 years usage out of it.
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#305055 - 08/30/12 09:39 AM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
Bill Cody Online   content
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12469
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Eric - Are you double checking the cfm open flow of the GAST 1532 compressor?
More info on the 1532
http://www.gastmfg.com/support_documents/STD386.pdf
http://www.emssales.net/store/cart.php?m...ow-valve-tubing

Ted Lea was correct again air flow is less and pump produces 30 L/m. 28 liter in a cuft, thus a little over 1 cfm.


Edited by Bill Cody (08/31/12 10:28 AM)
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#305075 - 08/30/12 11:42 AM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
Eric Offline
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Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 538
Loc: Rochester NY
Yes very aware of the capabilit and specs on the unit. Have had it running for a very long time and great flow and have a spare from my sisters pond working in it right now (another 1532 pump) There were a group of us that purchased this unit and have been using it for many years.


I am looking to get a replacement such that she has a replacement.
_________________________
---------------------------------
1/10 - 1/4 acre pond Upstate NY 14 ft deep


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#305084 - 08/30/12 01:33 PM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
Cody Veach Offline


Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 384
Loc: Central PA
Several of us on here have good success with the Eco 7 plus air pump. 200liters a min and 5.5 psi. I run 1 air station at 12 feet without a problem. And my other station at 7ft. They cost just under $100. Search the forum for "rc51 setup"

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#305163 - 08/31/12 08:45 AM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
Eric Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 538
Loc: Rochester NY
Thanks Cody. I have 100 ft of hose at a depth of 17 ft. Not sure that will work but I will check into it
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1/10 - 1/4 acre pond Upstate NY 14 ft deep


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#305189 - 08/31/12 11:24 AM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
RC51 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 4237
Loc: Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Eric
Thanks Cody. I have 100 ft of hose at a depth of 17 ft. Not sure that will work but I will check into it


Hey Eric RC51 here as Cody says the Eco 7 plus pump is pretty good and I believe Cody is one that has his at the deepest that I know of. Just a quick note to say that this pump is a pretty good pump but to go 17 feet??? I don't know about that? Remember you get what you pay for. The Eco 7 is a good pump and cheeper but does not have the horse power or push of say a Gast piston pump that you may need at those depths. Just FYI. If you do decide to get a Eco 7 PLEASE let us know how it does at that depth as you would be the first that I know of to use one that deep!!
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#312151 - 11/15/12 02:05 PM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
Eric Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 538
Loc: Rochester NY
Just an update here, I purchased the 1/3 hp Thomas pump for about $65 ( I purchased 2 ) and the pump is great. It is quiet and can push more air than my old Gast pump did on its best day. Sort of puts whitecaps on the pond. Only have to run it about 1/3 the time I did the Gast pump to get same results.

Only thing I need now is to have some real rain in upstate NY to fill the pond back up after the very very very very dry season we had this year.
_________________________
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1/10 - 1/4 acre pond Upstate NY 14 ft deep


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#312155 - 11/15/12 03:53 PM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
nils olson Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 44
Loc: wisconsin
where did u purchase the Thomas pump from? Maybe looking for a spare for the long cold winters here.

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#312156 - 11/15/12 03:54 PM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
Bing Offline
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Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 1607
Loc: Fayette County Illinois
Eric, that is great to hear. What results are you getting that equal the Gast with only 1/3 of the time? Oxygen in the water, number of times the water turns over each day, etc.?
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#312164 - 11/15/12 05:08 PM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
Bill Cody Online   content
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Registered: 04/18/02
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Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Keep in mind that Eric was using a Gast Model 1523 that produced only 1 cfm of air compared to the Gast 0523 rotary that produces 3-4cfm depending on depth.
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#312165 - 11/15/12 05:15 PM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Bill Cody]
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
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Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 6692
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Keep in mind that Eric was using a Gast Model 1523 that produced only 1 cfm of air compared to the Gast 0523 rotary that produces 3-4cfm depending on depth.


I just gave one of the 0523's to a guy in Indiana. No way to swap out the motor for an energy efficient 3 phase. Electric bills suck!

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#312175 - 11/15/12 07:07 PM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
Bluegillerkiller Offline
Hall of Fame
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Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 3536
Loc: Illinois, St. louis area
Is 3 phase like 240 where it seems like your getting more effieciency bit your actually not just less amps over more legs of power? Ex.. 120v 8amp pull verses 240v 4amp pull but on 2 legs so it's still pretty much the same cost?? Or am I totally off here??
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#312225 - 11/16/12 08:46 AM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Bluegillerkiller]
JKB Offline
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Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 6692
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Bluegillerkiller
Is 3 phase like 240 where it seems like your getting more effieciency bit your actually not just less amps over more legs of power? Ex.. 120v 8amp pull verses 240v 4amp pull but on 2 legs so it's still pretty much the same cost?? Or am I totally off here??


3 phase is 3 conductors of AC current which provides a much more balanced power source.

3 phase motors are inherently much more energy efficient than single phase. I was reading an article a while back and a Japanese company has motors in the lab that are in the 98% efficiency range. Single phase motors are typically half as efficient as 3 phase.

I have a 1/2hp little giant pump that sucks 835 watts. By changing the motor to 3 phase, it drops to 352 watts.

Today's technology allows one to run 3 phase motors from single phase sources at less that 2% loss from having a true 3 phase power source. The use of variable frequency drives (motor controllers) allows this to happen. Some are better than others so you have to watch out.

I have a project at a farm where we are replacing (3) 25hp pumps and installing VFD's. Off the bat, the farmer get's a 60.00/hp rebate from the power company for installing this. I'll set these up to run between 70-80% pump rate. They will also be programmed to run in off peak hours. Typically between the hours of 5:00pm to 8:00am. The payback for the farmer is less than 6 months.

We do a lot of energy efficient stuff at work. We work with the power companies to get our customers these rebates.

It's a shame that more home owners do not know about these energy saving techniques. Electric motors consume more than half of the energy produced. Lighting is the next biggest draw.

Pretty interesting stuff.



Edited by JKB (11/16/12 09:15 AM)

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#312239 - 11/16/12 10:25 AM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
Bill Cody Online   content
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12469
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
JKB - Thanks for explaining about 2 and 3 phase. Informative.
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#312252 - 11/16/12 10:49 AM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
Eric Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 538
Loc: Rochester NY
Ok the place i purchased the pumps from was as follows: http://stores.ebay.com/cdesurplus

I have gotten better turn over due to the higher flow as well as monitoring the O2 content in the water. The pump is not a rotary vein pump. I am now using the rocking piston type pump with dual pistons and it can pull up to: 22-24"HG and open flows 3.0 - 5.0 CFM and can handle Pressures up to 50psi intermittently and 30-35psi Continuous duty.

It runs cooler and quieter than the previous pump.
_________________________
---------------------------------
1/10 - 1/4 acre pond Upstate NY 14 ft deep


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#312303 - 11/16/12 09:27 PM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Bill Cody]
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 6692
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
JKB - Thanks for explaining about 2 and 3 phase. Informative.


Bill - I never even touched the surface of this subject. Didn't want to make it complicated and thought the 3 current carrying conductor exp. would help. Neutral (white wire) don't count as one of the current carrying conductors, so do not be confused if you have 3 wires. Still single phase.

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#312886 - 11/24/12 09:48 AM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
liquidsquid Offline


Registered: 11/20/11
Posts: 1935
Loc: East Bloomfield, NY USA
Frankly I am surprised with today's high-power semiconductors that a 120VAC motor doesn't have a controller built-in to drive them at higher efficiencies. JKB is right on the money for 3-phase.

One of my projects I am hoping to do next summer is have an excavator put in a cistern pipe (galvanized drain pipe with holes) in a spring near my pond, hopefully 20 or more feet down (surface well). Then I intend to drop a solar-powered pump down there in order to help keep the pond topped off rather than digging a full-fledged well. One of my goals is very high efficiency so I can learn about current solar products and installations. I don't even know if a DC motor is better than AC, or what should be used for a solar installation. I am still a long ways off since I don't even know what kind of flow rates I will get from this spring, if I need to cycle on and off or continuous, if I need batteries and a controller, or straight solar to pump will work. Of course I want it to be priced reasonably as well... A lot of work to do.

My neighbor just installed solar panels on his roof, and his panels that I thought were about 150W a piece are actually 340W a piece! The efficiency gains are incredible on solar lately. For the cost of a meter on a pole for access to the power grid ($25 a month), I can buy 2-3 of these panels a year. Add in the electric cost and it pays for the whole installation in 2-3 years based on relatively low flow rates. I don't need a lot of flow to make up for my 1/10" loss a day on a 0.6 acre pond, but this is the most reasonable solution I can come up with.

My biggest problem will be how to secure the equipment so it doesn't get stolen.

Eric, where about are you? I am south of Rochester... maybe solar would be a good solution for you as well.
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#312994 - 11/25/12 01:47 PM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: liquidsquid]
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 6692
Loc: Michigan
I was thinking about the same thing with a cistern.

What I was thinking, was to trench down about 20 or so feet, for maybe 60-80 feet long and bury a 2 foot diameter culvert (with the slits), then surround it with pea gravel, back fill it with sand, and run a riser up above the surface for sticking a pump down.

It would probably work well, and not too expensive. My only concern is how long before it fills in with sediment, and how to clean it out, if possible? It's all sand and gravel here.



Edited by JKB (11/25/12 01:55 PM)

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#312998 - 11/25/12 02:31 PM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
kenc Offline


Registered: 11/07/11
Posts: 909
Loc: Aylett, VA
If you cover the pipe with landscaping fabric it should never clog up.

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#313101 - 11/26/12 08:03 PM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
liquidsquid Offline


Registered: 11/20/11
Posts: 1935
Loc: East Bloomfield, NY USA
Yup. about the same plan I have! I would dig the ditch, line the hole with landscape fabric BEFORE putting in the pea gravel. Encapsulate the gravel + pipe and you will never be clogged up. The pea gravel will also allow holding a greater volume of water.

One thing I worry about is safety, leaving the lid too large and someone squeezing in there and not getting back out. Would make for some pretty yucky water for a while. ;-). Probably keep a ladder in there if the vertical pipe was 10" or more.
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#313455 - 11/30/12 10:20 AM Re: Aeration pumps on the cheap [Re: Eric]
daviddpondscum Offline


Registered: 11/28/12
Posts: 4
Loc: southern ohio
Where can I buy this pump ? David D.

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