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#308115 - 10/01/12 04:11 PM Big bass genetics?
nhc2002 Offline


Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 17
Loc: IL

My new 5 ac pond is FULL of clueless fat heads. I am now starting to really look at my options for the other fish. Big LMB is my primary goal. I'm in southern Illinois. Getting the bass from fisheries is easy enough but since I'm starting fresh I really feel like I want the best genetics possible. It seems like most of the fisheries focus more on numbers as opposed to genetics/potential size of the fish. I totally understand that philosophy but still for me I really think I want something I know has kick butt genetics. So my question is do I just need to chill and get the fish that are offered around here or is there another option for me that would involve these better genetics?

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#308123 - 10/01/12 05:20 PM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: nhc2002]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Since you are too far North for Florida's, lets see what others have to say. I know Todd Overton is playing around with Floridas for genetics, but he's in Texas.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#308132 - 10/01/12 06:14 PM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: esshup]
fish n chips Offline


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 2315
Loc: Northeast Ohio

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#308138 - 10/01/12 08:47 PM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: nhc2002]
ewest Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19539
Loc: Miss.
Not Fla LMB in your location. Contact Greg Grimes and ask him where he got my northern LMB. Your area I think . Very good fish.
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#308171 - 10/02/12 07:35 AM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: nhc2002]
Greg Grimes Offline
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Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 3973
Loc: Ball Ground, GA
We are going to southern IL today. Well
I'm not I'm boarding a plane for Dallas but josh is. He can grab a few extra north bass if you want some. We really like these fish. We will have 1 lb fish and 6-8". Call office today if interested. Good luck. 7707353523.
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#308218 - 10/02/12 04:15 PM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: nhc2002]
greatwhiteape Offline


Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 151
Loc: New Jersey
Having giant bass in your pond has a lot more to do with your food supply than your genetics. It is true that Florida bass will get larger than Northern bass, but no bass will attain any size worth bragging about unless it has plenty to eat.

If you develop a kick ass food chain you will have big, fat, healthy bass no matter what strain you are able to stock.

I can show you ponds here in New Jersey that are full of fat two, three, four, five, and six pound bass and I can show you ponds in Florida that are choked with one pound bass and not much else.

Chances are that you won't see many ten plus pound bass in an Illinois pond, but could you be happy spending an afternoon reeling in three and four pound bass one after another?

Like me, you are geographically limited. It sucks, and I am jealous of all you guys that have truly wicked populations of ten plus pound fish, but I will never have those this far north of the Mason Dixon line. It just can't happen.

So, my recommendation is to see what type of forage does well in your area, be it minnows, shiners, chubs, crayfish, etc and get that cooking. Then stock your bluegill and your bass on top of that.

A lot of good information has been shared here by people more knowledgeable than myself about stocking ratios for bluegill and bass and it seems that 20:1 is really where it starts for bluegill:bass in a trophy bass pond. I also believe that you shouldn't start with more than 50 largemouth per acre as an initial stocking either. So, that puts you around 1000 bluegills per acre and 50 largemouth per acre as a starting point. Many people advise stocking bluegill as heavily as 30:1 over bass for your initial stocking.

I do believe that genetics play a role in growing truly world record quality fish, but I believe that food has much more to do with an overall quality bass fishery than genes do.
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#308226 - 10/02/12 05:52 PM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: nhc2002]
ewest Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19539
Loc: Miss.
No doubt that insufficient food (forage ) is the most common problem wrt poor growth/size/condition in ponds. However nhc needs to know that studies of Fla LMB stocked in northern waters reveal that Fla LMB did not meet their growth potential even with enough food. In the most northern states they all died (did not overwinter).
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#308228 - 10/02/12 06:33 PM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: fish n chips]
Zep Offline
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Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 3085
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
Originally Posted By: fish n chips
Don't know if this helps, Camelot bell;


I put some Camelot Bell bass in my pond in early June,
but I just wonder how many of them rascals got eaten?
I guess we'll find out eventually....I hope.

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#308300 - 10/03/12 03:10 PM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: ewest]
greatwhiteape Offline


Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 151
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: ewest
No doubt that insufficient food (forage ) is the most common problem wrt poor growth/size/condition in ponds. However nhc needs to know that studies of Fla LMB stocked in northern waters reveal that Fla LMB did not meet their growth potential even with enough food. In the most northern states they all died (did not overwinter).


I agree 100%. This is why a lot of my studying has done to smallmouth bass in northern waters. If I can't have monster largemouth (florida strain) then I would rather have football-esque smallmouth.
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#308426 - 10/04/12 10:44 PM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: nhc2002]
nhc2002 Offline


Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 17
Loc: IL
Thanks for all the time & info guys, I love this forum! I talked to a guy who manages a lake not too far from me that has had great success with the F1 bass, yes his lake is south of me, but not terribly far south. Then I talked to Josh with Aquatic Environmental Services. So at this point I am certainly interested in the F1. Is there a good reason to not go with say 50% F1's and the rest regular northerns or something along those lines? It seems I hear a lot of mixed opinions on the F1 and some have told me they won't do well this far north but according to the guy I talked to they seem to do quite well.

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#308428 - 10/05/12 02:45 AM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: nhc2002]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
If you do stock F1's, think about tagging (if they are large enough) or fin clipping them to be able to tell them apart from the Northern ones in your BOW. That way you can tell what strain is growing better (quicker, larger, etc.)
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#308440 - 10/05/12 10:14 AM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: nhc2002]
ewest Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19539
Loc: Miss.
There is substantial uncertainty and differing results and opinions on F-1s up north vs. Flas which my comments addressed.. There have been some successes and some failures with F-1s. In the zone you are in what you pick and the water you have could make a bigger than normal difference. I would check on the F-1 stock (get the history of the parents/brood stock). If the regular LMB parents are from your area and the Fla parents are several generations removed from south Fla then you will have a better chance of success. I would avoid F-1s with deep south parents. The more adapted to cooler climates the better. Also get northern LMB from your area not from deep south.

On the water issues check winter temp profiles. For example is the lake that had success in your area spring fed with higher winter low temps vs. your pond with no springs. Those type considerations along with fertility differences.

I would not hesitate in trying what you suggest if you get good answers to the questions above because you will have a large majority of northern LMB genes.


Edited by ewest (10/05/12 10:14 AM)
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#308569 - 10/07/12 09:32 PM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: nhc2002]
NightRider Offline


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 39
Loc: Southern Illinois
hey where in southern illinois are you?
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#308836 - 10/10/12 11:30 PM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: nhc2002]
nhc2002 Offline


Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 17
Loc: IL
ewest, I will follow through with your suggestions on the F1's. These fish may only be 1 to 2 inches. I don't know much about tagging or fin clipping but I assume it might be pretty difficult with fish this small, although I would love to have some sort of identification to tell the difference between strains. I am up for suggestions on that, but maybe that should be on a different thread. NightRider, I am in SE Illinois, East of Mt. Vernon. Thanks again guys.

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#309576 - 10/20/12 11:17 AM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: nhc2002]
Rangersedge Offline
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Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 837
Loc: Illinois
nhc: I'm about 70 miles north of you by road.
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#309583 - 10/20/12 12:14 PM Re: Big bass genetics? [Re: Rangersedge]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
nhc, the fish are too small to tag, but fin clipping would work.
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