Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat Setting posts for a non floating dock

One of my ponds has been drained and work to clean out the muck is supposed to commence soon. Another is (I hope) as low as it is ever going to be, so I thought I would take this opportunity to set some posts for future docks.
If I use 4x4 or 6x6 CCA how long can I expect it to last?
The ponds are dry enough that I should be able to drive a tractor and post hole digger to the shore to set the posts a few feet in the ground. Should I pour some concrete around them, or will dirt be good enough?

I also have taken advantage of low water and built a bridge across one spot on Possum creek...workin on a dock also...l had available to me some old elec poles (about a foot or more in diameter) that I cut and used for posts. I think that 4x4's might tend to sink once all the weight is added due to the small surface area. Adding concrete around the base might give them a bigger "footprint"...I would like to know also about how long the treated wood will last as I used it for the framing and deck on the bridge

You will get the entire gamut of responses on proper installation. For me, it's a hybrid of what I consider best practices.
Agreed with Ghostown: the vertical compressive force is critical, so an increased footprint is needed. A concrete mass on firm subsoil works well and is the cheapest....a concrete pier. Putting a fence post in a hole (elevated off the bottom with a brick or similar) and concrete poured around it is fine. Not so, IMHO, for a well designed support of significant vertical pressure (weight). I prefer to see a concrete footing, independent of the structure or post it will support. Adding some rebar vert's and 3 or 4 ties is cheap insurance, particularly if the post it is going to support may be subjected to shear forces of wind blown ice floes. The top of the concrete pier would have a stout metal bracket to link the pier to the post above. Regarding projected life of green-treat, my studies show .6 retention suitable for submersion in fresh water. I don't recall the life expectancy, but using the above mentioned method of support will allow reasonably easy repair and/or replace of a rotted timber in the future.

I'm with brettski,I've replaced more rotted posts then I care to talk about.

From now on we use concrete footings with a stainless bolt embedded in them that attaches a u shaped bracket to attach the posts.

It sounds hard but a simple round form and some wire reinforcements used for drive ways will do the trick for all but the big stuff.

For underwater you have options too,on small docks you can prefab them above water,jet a hole with a hose and then back fill with gravel.

Just maybe -- think about wheels.

I grew up where the winters were just plain fierce -- actually, I just got back from there a few hours ago. The north and south shores of western Lakes Superior are beautiful much of the year, but the winter ice can really reek havoc on inland lake docks in that area.

When I was a kid we made dock ends that had old implement wheels, like those from old horse-drawn plows and hay rakes. We could pull them out in the fall, and roll them back in the spring.

We couldn't have a family get-together yesterday in Northern MN and WI because all my relatives and close friends figured it was the weekend to pull the docks, shut down the wells, and winterize the outhouses.

The newer docks in that area use commercial dock wheels from places like Mennards, Cabelas, and many other places.

Here is a link to what I'm referring to:

Dock Wheels w

Most are made from some pretty tough and impervious material that has a standard 1-3/4 inch diameter axle hole. They can be permanent, or they can be pulled before the ice starts to form, and put back when the ice melts for the season.

A properly built 24 to 36 foot long dock can be pushed/pulled into/out-of the water by two young guys, or five or six real strong dudes who are my age. It is even easier if you have a tractor.

In my lifetime, I've also put in a lot of docks other ways. Just yesterday, in Northern Wisconsin, I watched my nephew pushing 12-foot tamarack poles into the edge of the water in a swamp at the edge of one of his cattle pastures. He was doing with with his track hoe. He pushed them at least 6-foot into the soil with the track hoe bucket.

I've also used the "out" hose of a trash pump with pieces of pipe at the end, to make holes for poles, and then dribbled really dry concrete mix around the post when it was in place.

Cecil has put poles in during ice-over by cutting holes in the ice, and driving the poles into the pond bottoms.

There are many ways to skin a catfish.

We have a pier in a lake that was installed in the mid '70's. Never replaced a post yet, and it's close to 70' long. We used 2" galvanized pipe for posts, installing them by cutting holes in the ice, washing them in by screwing on a threaded cap, and hooking that end of the pipe to the garden hose. It washed itself down most of the way, and we pounded it the rest of the way with a sledge.

" .6 retention suitable for submersion in fresh water. "
Could you repeat that in non-engineer English please?

Some FAQ stuff

We use 8" creosote post around here. Most of the time we do like you are talking and use a tractor with a post hole digger near 4ft deep. We put some concrete in the bottom of the whole before putting the post in. This performs 2 duties as a footer & to prevent water penatration from the cut end of the post. We pack in quikcrete around the post. Have some that have been up 20+ years and are in good shape.

I put in 6x6 inch green treated posts 15 years ago for my pond deck/gazebo and I can't see any degrading to the post in the water. My holes were about 4 1/2 feet deep. I flared out the bottoms for a bigger foot print foundation and dropped in a half bag of dry concrete. I pounded clay around the posts as I filled the hole using a sledge hammer. I set post the same way for my pole barn I built back in the 70,s. I remember reading not to pore concrete around the post because it would make them rot, but I don't remember why.