Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Bluegill population expansion question

If I were to stock a fishless 1/3 acre, average 4' depth pond with approx. 175 4-5" native bluegill only this Fall... How many fry could I estimate per spawn next year? How many could make it to the 3-5" size? I'll be feeding AquaMax at least twice per day, no predators except the occasional GBH. Is there a ratio or formula that would help in my estimates based upon brood quantities, feeding etc. etc.? This is an Indiana pond.

Wouldn't the first spawns children and grand children be spawning before the year is over?
I was never good at algebra so I'll just hang up and listen.

Yes, I believe that is correct. I would be worried about winterkill in a pond that shallow in Indiana.

Really???!!!........... 4-5" BG into a pond in October. They have to spawn. Those get big enough to spawn for the first time, and then their spawn will spawn. All in two to three months ( and going into winter)???????

I know nothing about BG spawning rates, but this seems really remarkable!

EDIT...or are you saying by the end of next year, otherwise 14 months????

I actually meant 2013. Didn't make myself very clear.

4"- 5" BG famale can lay 2,000 - 6,000 eggs. (about)

How many will survive? It all depends on how many are eaten by the other BG in the pond. More will survive if there is cover for the fry and YOY to hide in. Maybe someone else can give you a survival number.

I believe some of the pond owners in the southern US got 4 or 5 spawns of BG this year. In south Texas, the first happened in mid-February. In central Oklahoma, the first one happened in mid-March.

Bullhead, I think it is very possible.

I am talking by this time next year. Remember that the "average" depth is 4'. Max depth is around 8' which should give them a safe haven in the dead of winter. Very little vegetation as it was treated with Sonar this year to eliminate a dense stand of milfoil.

Just looking for estimates. If the male/female ratio was 50/50 that would be 85+ females. Would they all spawn multiple times? Lets average Essups figures to 4000 eggs or fry per female. That equals 340,000 eggs/fry per spawn. If the original brood stock spawns 4 times, that would be approx. 1,360,000 YOY. I guess estimating the carnage is the hard part. I know there are lots of factors but how about generally speaking.

In a polyculture pond, isn't the survival rate less that 1%? What about the monoculture pond? Still has predation but only from their own. Will boosting the feed rates lower predation?

I don't know about the monoculture pond, but I've caught 10" BG on a 2 1/2" long imitation BG crankbait. I believe BG are more piscivorous than many people realize.

Just last week I put 14# of FHM in a BG/PS only pond, along with 50 4" LMB. The BG were chasing the FHM just like bass will, herding them to the shallows, and busting them on the surface.

I don't know your goals, but In my opinion stocking male and female BG together in an otherwise empty pond will certainly produce a bumper crop of yoy fish....enough that I can't imagine having to worry about the losses from predation caused by the larger BG.

I can see where boosting feed levels might satiate the larger BG, thereby slowing down consumption of yoy fish, but I also believe that a diet of high protein feed might ramp up the reproduction of your larger fish, resulting in even more yoy fish?

This is not a linear question. You can't count males and females in that manner for reproductive purposes. It is a giant "it depends" question.

Some facts

BG males have multiple females drop eggs in their nest. Then the female moves on and repeats with another male and so on. So eggs per pair doesn’t work.

With different #s of spawns depending on location you can't get accurate #s on a per spawn basis. Plus there are major and minor spawns in locations where there are several spawns (not all the same in #s of spawners and offspring per spawn).

In the south in a new pond a BG born in March can spawn by late summer. That is not true up north due to slower growth rates and early cold water (even BG don't normally engage in futile reproductive strategies).


Scientific data indicated that fecundity is about 80,000 eggs per female per year (efish) although other sources have different #s but still close for an average.

Put some xmas trees around where the spawning areas will be. I do think it is safe to say you will have a pond full of BG by fall 13.

Here is a thought -- 85 X 80,000 = 6,800,000 less predation and other natural morts = a lot and even more if you feed them.

Some things to keep in mind.

1. An overwhelming # of the eggs will be eaten prior to hatching.

2. Upon hatching, if the pond isn't really fertile, the fry starve to death.

3. A huge # of fry are eaten as fry.

I think you would be lucky to get over 3 to 5% in an unfed pond. However, with you feeding, it will probably be more.

What is the goal of this?

My own supply for future customer stocking. I have a good customer that is letting me use one of his ponds for whatever I want. Gotta love that!

I agree with Dave that most will not make to 1 yr. But 3% to 5% is still between 200,000 and 350,000 BG.

Unless you're selling a quarter of a million bluegill every year I don't think that you will run out any time soon LOL.

I would be certain to do a few things first.

Number one, is I would draw the pond down and nuke it. There isn't much in this world that bothers me more than when people get a shipment of bluegill fry and end up with green sunfish in their pond. I hear about it happening all the time and if you nuke the pond you will be sure to have a fresh start.

Also, look at every bluegill by hand before stocking them. Its only 175 fish and you will be able to sort out any nonsense before it can become problematic.

Also, in a year's time, when the pond is chock full of bluegill...I would add ONE female largemouth bass to the pond. I mean, why not? LOL. She won't put a dent in your bluegill population, but won't it be cool to have an eight pound largemouth to stock in someone's pond?

I like the idea of the lone lunker gwa. Rotenone plans already in progress even though this pond has never been stocked since built 3-4 years ago.

Bob suggests that I back the 175 way down to 50 for the initial 5" brooders (biggest and best I could find locally). They will be fully sexed, sorted and inspected before going in.

Since it will be "virgin" water, you might want to salt dip them too.

Where are you getting the brooders Blaine? (Always interested in another fish source here in the Hoosier state)

sprkplug,

I get most of my fish from Abe Rayl. Abe is our very own Matt Rayl's father. Matts' humble beginnings. Abe is old school and does it right. He is truly "Honest Abe". PM me and I'll give you more info if interested. I also have a great source for HSB if interested.

If you are ever looking for FHM, I have a dedicated pond on my property that I built and stocked last Summer. I haven't taken any out yet but it is time.

Essup, tell me more about the salt dip benefits.

The salt dip creates a pressure differential on the cellular level, and external parasites can't handle it, so they die. Cecil uses the salt dip a lot when he's transferring fish from one BOW to another on his place. It's O.K. for smaller batches, but it'd be a PITA to do it on larger batches. You need to have 3 tanks set up. One that the fish are in, another with the salt dip and a 3rd with clean water. Here's what Cecil posted a while back:

Dip the fish up to 30 seconds or a minute or until it turns on it's side. Weigh out 1.25 lbs. of salt per 5 gallons * of water for a 3 percent solution, which is about the same as saltwater give or take. If the fish goes on it's side, immediately put it back into the pond. Use water from the pond.

*A cooler would be better than a five gallon bucket as the fish won't have problems keeping horizontal if it's a larger fish. Don't guess on the gallons or salt level. Measure as precisely as possible.

I would use non-iodized salt from the grocery story, and stay away from water softener salt. Many times water softener salt has an anti-caking agent know as yellow prussiate of soda (sodium ferrocyanide)that can produce hydrogen cyanide in the presence of sunlight, which is toxic to fish.

One additional thought. Since it is a new pond put in some FH. That will provide a source of food for the BG in addition to pellets. Fish do better when they have natural forage in their diets.

Has it had water in it this whole time, if so there may be some types of food anyway.

I know that somehow my pond sat empty for 4 years before I stocked it and somehow GSF were already in the pond.

This has made for a fun time, but I have pulled out a few nice GSF to eat. The LMB have taken care of the rest. I am sure I will continue to have them in small numbers, and will end up with some natural HBG, but heck we eat all of them and the kids like to catch them so I guess that is all that matters.