Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose any reason to avoid golden shiner?

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Have a 3.5 acre lake that I have placed only fat heads in. I'm waiting for my send off water sample to run before the bluegill- any reason not to put in Anderson minnow golden shiner fry- they are available this month-----

Plan to have well rounded fishery with bass and hybrid bass as preditors.


Thanks

Golden shiners(GSH) can compete directly with BG for food. They can also be bait stealers as they get large enough to take baited hooks. Unless your goal is to grow trophy class BG, I don't see a reason not to stock them. They make excellent forage for both LMB and HSB.

My main goal would be to have them as an alternative to BG for forage for the LMB and HSB. I want the fishery to be well rounded, but trophy HSB or LMB woudld be the goal over the BG.

thanks

dustin

sorry, did't mean to post on this thread. Meant to post on the coppernose thread. Can't delete it.

If your primary goal isn't trophy BG, then I'd stock the GSH.

If your winters stay warm enough in your neck of the woods I would also suggest threadfin shad. 3.5 acres is right on the edge of just big enough, in my opinion, and they're excellent forage for your largemouth AND your hybrid bass.

I personally wouldn't start a bass pond without putting golden shiners in first. They do well all over the country and they're great forage for all gamefish up to about five pounds.

Lake Chubsuckers could be a thought too. They're just a little different of feeder than minnows or shiners. They get pretty big on the top end to make a meal for a bigger bass.

Crayfish are a necessity in a bass pond. They're good forage and they are yet another way to turn waste in the pond into bass food!

Grass shrimp should probably be included in the mix as well if you have a good amount of vegetation for them to live and reproduce in.

When I think about building the food chain in a new pond, before adding any predators, I try to get forage species that all utilize a different part of the pond. Diversity in your food chain is key.

Its also a good idea to start planning NOW for the moves you will want to make in a few years when your original stocker fingerling LMBs are 18"+ and are having a hard time finding suitable sized food that will allow them to move into the 24"+ group. You could think about gizzard shad, tilapia, or just managing your food chain to let bass fry get to one pound in a hurry, where they will be thinned out by the eight pound plus bass.

Two years before stocking my predator fish (Yellow Pearch and Walleye) I stocked FHM and GSH. I now regret stocking the GSH as I cannot throw in a hook for more than 10 seconds without catching a 8-10 GSH or having the bait stolen. I frequently see very large YP but have yet been able to catch one.

I removed the artificial GSH habitat I installed in hopes that the WE will naturally reduce their numbers. I also might overstock the WE as there seems to be no shortage of forage.

I think a big factor with GSH is not giving your original stockers too big a start over the predators, especially if you aren't going to be stocking LMB. If you stock say 400 GSH with no predators present, there's a good chance 75%+ will survive as there will be little mortality. This means you'll have a pond with 300+ GSH in the 7"+ range. All being aggressive bait stealers.

To prevent this, stock the GSH about the same time you stock fingerling predators if you are going to put more than a couple hundred GSH in. Or, stock smaller amounts and let them spawn once before stocking predators. If you have good spawning habitat, just a pound of GSH will establish nicely...

The use of minnows as opposed to worms for bait will help reduce bait stealing by large GSH.

Keep in mind though that GSH have a maximum life span of about 5-6 years. So, when those original stockers which are your current bait stealers die when your pond is 5-6 years old, the issue should be greatly reduced. This is because far fewer GSH we recruit to those larger size classes under predation that wasn't originally present for your originally stocked GSH. In many ponds, particularly those with LMB, no GSH recruit and you end up not having any GSH present in your pond after 5-6 years.

arond - Yours is a common problem which is why I stopped using GSH and started using bluntnose minnows (BNM) and spotfin shiners (SFS) max 5" & not noticable bait stealers I think because SFS do not get as large as GSH). CJ has the best advice that I am aware of for your GSH problem.

After the my GSH population is under control I will stick with the FHM and YP as my forage base.

This weekend a local "Musky" fisherman is coming with his friends to reduce my GSH population for bait.

After reading this thread I am glad I went with a low density GSH stocking strategy in my 1/4 acre pond.

I stocked 3 dozen minnow sized (2") GSH in early June of last year along with 5 dozen fatheads when the water was still very muddy. I wasn't sure any of them survived my July alum treatment to clear the water until I found one dead 5" GSH three weeks ago. The FHMs reproduced like mad last summer.

Bill,

Where would you recommend getting spotfin shiners? I haven't seen anyone advertising those.

I have searched extensively for spotfin shiners being for sale. So far, the only place I have seen listing them for sale is SUNY College of Agriculture and Technology, Morrisville, N.Y. 13408 Trotta, Laurie (315) 684-6423 Brook Trout, Rainbow Trout, Brown and Tiger Trout, Atlantic Salmon, Coho Salmon, Fathead Minnows, Emerald, Spotfin, Satinfin, and Golden Shiners, Hybrid Striped Bass, Tilapia, Goldfish and Paddlefish.

I have no contacted them to even find out if they do indeed sell them and if so do they ship? If you call them, let us know what they have to say...

I know there are a couple hatcheries in OH who are just starting to raise them. However, I don't think they have gotten to a production level where they can actually offer them for sale.

Spotfins are raised and sold for bait at Erie Shore Hookers Bait & Tackle, 235 1/2 Shoreline Drive, Sandusky OH.. Don't know if they would overnight some to buyers or not. You don't need very many per acre without predators to get lots by fall. 45-50 breeders/ac did it for me. Spotfins will spawn all summer long from middle or end of May to end of August. erieshorehookers.com

I did contact Ryan and here is his response.



SUNY hatchery

Sep 21 (5 days ago)

To DiehlRG

Ryan,

I found your contact information on the Pondboss forum. I, as well as several other forum members, are curious as to wether or not SUNY sells any of the fish species, specifically the spotfin and satinfin shiners listed on the NYSDEC hatcheries website. If SUNY does not sell them, are you aware of any county SWCD that sells other forage fish aside from fathead minnow and golden shiner?

Thank you for your time,
Jason



Diehl, Ryan (Ag. Faculty)


Sep 21 (5 days ago)


Jason,

We do not sell any shiners. The extensive list of species that is on the DEC webpage is just what we are PERMITTED to have. Currently we have Brook, Brown and Rainbow Trout. Once in a while we have a small quantity of fatheads, but very rarely. All of the fish we raise (and sell) are grown here at the College.

Unfortunately, I am unaware of any place where you may be able to obtain forage fish other than fatheads or golden shiners.

Ryan



Ryan G. Diehl

Aquaculture Center Manager

Morrisville State College

(315)684-6423 - Office

(315)684 - 6125 - Fax