Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Missouri Spring Fed Pond need expert advice.

Good stuff RockvilleMDAngler.

I do want to do it right! I assume I have some time to decide and that I can go ahead and stock HBG and minnows now and wait on SMB or LMB until spring.

On the structure side. I have a 20' x 20' gravel bed, a huge tree stump with the roots intact , and an area about 60' x 30' with small saplings, vines, and an island with tree roots all over.

The pond also has about 300' of 20' wide creek attached to it with lots of structure under the banks of the creek. Water depth in the creek is about 2'.

I will be glad to add more structure if needed but I felt like this was a pretty good start? Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Great idea on the feeder, I will get that done this month.

Vegetation.?? Ok, thats a tough one. I dont want to create a nightmare of moss and weeds but I do understand something is needed. Here in Kansas I've seen many ponds ruined by vegetation taking over. Probably good for the fish but the swimming really sucks. Will the hybrid lillys spread?

HBG are a bad idea with SMB, they end up competing with the SMB for food and don't breed enough for their young to feed the SMB. RES are fine with both species but do not breed enough to be the sole forage for either. Smallmouth prefer to feed on more "fusiform" prey like golden shiners, lake chubsuckers, and yellow perch. These fish are more streamlined and are easier for a smallmouth to eat. Largemouth can feed more on bluegill as their larger gape allows them to swallow taller prey. If you plan on going SMB you will need to get the following stocked (these are just the commercially available forage, going outside the box can only make it better): Golden Shiners, Fathead Minnows, Red-Eared Sunfish (mostly for snail control but their young will be prey for larger SMB), crayfish, grass shrimp then stock Yellow Perch along with your smallmouth. If you want to go largemouth then you will need to stock: fathead minnows, bluegill, red-eared sunfish, and crayfish. Depending on your climate you can add other forage to improve the overall quality of the fish. You can stock large amounts of forage all at once along with the predators but this is expensive, or you can stock a smaller number of each now and wait until next fall before you stock predators. One of the benefits of waiting to stock your predators is that you can add new types of forage throughout the waiting period without worrying if they will be immediately wiped out by your predators.

One of the benefits to getting beneficial vegetation established is that it will make it less likely for unwanted vegetation to get established. Plants like hybrid water lillies (small variety), corkscrew eel grass, and American Pondweed are slow to grow and will not take over the pond. There are many other beneficial plants you can try to get established and I am sure one of the experts will chime in with some advice. If it were me I would look to get that shallow portion of your pond covered in hybrid lillies or eelgrass.

The rule of thumb is that you want 20% of your pond bottom covered in structure. This does not sound like much but it is! You can use rocks, concrete blocks, old trees weighted down with cinderblocks (try to avoid oaks as tannins can cause problems with your water chemistry), custom built pvc structures etc. all give your baitfish places to hide and your predators ambush areas. The 20% number is good because more will give your forage too many places to hide which means your predators will have to work harder to find food and won't grow as well. Many people here prefer the pvc and artificial structures as they last longer and cause fewer hangups, but that is all personal preference. Check out the "Creating Habitat" forum for ideas.

The creek sounds like a good spawning area for smallmouth but it is doubtful that it will become a regular hangout for bigger fish outside of the spawning season. They might chase baitfish up there but most of there time will be spent in the main pond.

You mentioned swimming, do you have a dock? We decided to have a designated swimming area in my pond and we set it up around the dock. We did not put any fish structure in this area so nobody would get hurt diving off the dock. Our swimming area is 12'+ deep and the grass would never get in the way. We will not be swimming in the shallow areas where the grass is established anyway, soft mud is not something the kids are into.

Once again great info.. thanks. I will establish the 20% cover/structure. Should be able to accomplish that before fall.

You mentioned some difficulty in establishing the lillies? Any tips? Is it too late in the year to get them going?

I think I will end up going with HBG and LMB. Seems to make the most since and to be a proven combination. I will get some more Fatheads stocked and the HBG this fall and see about putting the LMB in in the spring.

Also... what is tannins? From oak trees i assume?

Where is the best place to buy Hybrid Waterlilies?

http://www.aquariumplants.com/category_s/9.htm

Any hybrid small (S) lily on that page should work. The warmer it is when you plant them the quicker they take hold. Mine established nicely but frikkin geese have eaten all the stems and pads; hopefully, the root structures are still there and they will pop back up later this year or next spring. To plant them barely cover the tuber with mud and place a small rock or brick on top to prevent it from washing away in a storm. I planted mine from 6" to 24" and the shallower ones took off quicker but eventually all of them had pads on the surface.

Tannins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin Several people have had incidents where the tannins in some trees that were to be used as fish structure harmed their water and caused a fish kill.

Also if you want to go the largemouth route stick with regular bluegill and not the hybrid bluegill. Regular bluegill reproduce much quicker and can keep up with the voracious appetite of your largemouth bass. I would also add some golden shiners for variety but I don't have a LMB pond so someone else might caution against them.

How do you check if you have that tannins acid? My water looks similar in color!

I dont see any that say hybrid. Just making sure I dont get something that over take the pond. If they say small is that considered hybrid?

Sorry, most of them are hybrid but as long as they are small and hardy they should work perfectly.

great, so they will not spread or over populate?

They will slowly spread but it would take a long time for them to cover the entire shallow area, like years. The spread will come from individual plants growing and covering more ground, not from new reproduction.

ok thanks we'll try and get some started