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#304401 - 08/25/12 07:54 AM Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond
Couppedeville Offline
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Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Louisiana, Washington
Hi everyone,

I am seeking advice on a type fish that is in my newly stocked pond. Thinking Green Sunfish!!!

Details are I built the pond last year and is just under 2 acres. I have aeration running 24/7, water depth is around 3' to 12' deep in a couple of holes, feeding AM 3 times daily with AM 300 & 500 mixed together.

In late January I stocked the pond with 1000 CNBG, 500 Native BG, 300 Redear & 10 lbs of FHM. I purchased the fish from a local fish farm in Maurice Louisiana.

In late May I stocked 75 Native LMB, 25 Camelot LMB, 25 CC, 18 HSB & 50 Native BG from Overton's.

I started fishing to see what I could bring up and I think I am catching Green Sunfish almost every cast. They have great big pot bellies, very healthy, 3-4" long.

I'm almost certain I got them from the local fish hatchery but my question is can these fish be managed? I only wish to entain the thought of a total fish kill since I will not be able to get my hands on additional Camelot bass so what are my options at this poimt?

I built me a fish trap yesterday and plan to drop it in the pond today and start removing what I can. I welcome all advise, thoughts and comments.

Thanks in advance

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-B2y47EzjYBQ/UDiwXnYWNVI/AAAAAAAAI4o/ciAmVD5541g/s800/DSCF0419.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-epOrIu7vtzQ/UDiwgDBUmfI/AAAAAAAAI4w/R9zTag6SuRo/s800/DSCF0420.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-POufFG5__0s/UDiwrakVw0I/AAAAAAAAI44/AcNAzRbukZI/s800/DSCF0421.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qwXHUdyZlnE/UDiwtjg8sEI/AAAAAAAAI5A/MKckY-AhDGE/s800/DSCF0422.JPG
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#304406 - 08/25/12 08:29 AM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
sprkplug Offline
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Classic GSF... I agree on the trap idea, remove all that you can and allow your LMB to work on the rest. I'm not as knowledgeable as most on here, so hold on for further ideas.

Afterthought: Is there another BOW that feeds into your pond? It's certainly possible that you got GSF from a hatchery, but I would want to eliminate any other possibilities first. If a stream, or other source feeds into it, you may have a continual supply of fresh Greenies....

If not, I might take a trip to the hatchery, GSF in tow and see what they say.


Edited by sprkplug (08/25/12 08:34 AM)
Edit Reason: afterthought
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"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#304409 - 08/25/12 09:11 AM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
Bill Cody Offline
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See my comments in this link.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=304405#Post304405

Here are a few more. If you take a couple GSF back to the hatchery I strongly doubt that they will admit to contamination of their stock but it does happen depending on how they manage their stock. Who would admit to that?. There are awhole lot of other topics about GSF here. Search for them (try Google: Pond Boss green sunfish). Someone may be able to provide you some informative links. We should probably have an archive about GSF - How To Deal With And Manage Them.

As I Mentioned earlier if you have a strong LMB population the GSF will not be a problem and could actualy be a 'bonus' fish. Initially it may take a few years for the bass to reduce the GSF numbers, Until then make a concerted effort remove all you can to allow the young bass to get big enough to start eating the younger GSF.

The GSF are either really fat due to their aggressive naure of eating lots of pellets "hogs" and or other small fish. They are very competive compared to other similar sized fish. Cut some open and report back; it will be good info to you and us. Please keep us advised as to how this goes for you.


Edited by Bill Cody (09/02/12 04:11 PM)
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#304416 - 08/25/12 09:43 AM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Bill Cody]
esshup Offline
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The other way that they could have gotten into the pond is if the pond was dug in a wet spot, and they could have already been there in the water.

With the fish that you have in the pond, don't kill and start over. I think that with trapping and a concentrated effort on removing them, plus the LMB that are in the pond, that they won't be a problem. It might take a few years to get most of them out.
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#304439 - 08/25/12 02:02 PM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
Couppedeville Offline
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Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Louisiana, Washington
sprkplug,

It sure would make me feel better to get an explanation from them but from a business point of view, it will only infuriate the owner especially since I can't prove a thing. So, I decided to move on, chock it up to experience but leave mental note to self: verify everything on the spot before leaving location and then have them fill the bag with oxygen. Hard to deny at his establishment there are issues. I hope other new pond stockers takes this bad experience and verify, verify, verify then hit the road.


I put the trap in this morning with AM feed in a stocking for bait and getting ready to go check it out and see what I have. The kids passed by it and said it was full of fish & turtles. I will take some photos and post them for whoever is interested in viewing.


Bill Cody,
I did do a search but did not come up with anything. I am certain it is my limited abilities of using the search properly but will keep trying. Doing an archives would be wonderful especially for the ones such as myself that are just getting into the pond management business. Thanks for the link, I greatly appreciate your time and comments.

The kids caught a 3.5" Camelot bass this morning that looked real healthy. I added them in late May and were only 1-2" at the time. With the pond just under 2 acres at full pool, I added 100 bass and 18 HSB so I hope this will be enough to control the population. My goal is to have a few large bass, but not a trophy pond, and a balanced fishery for the kids to have a blast. DO you think I am bass light or balanced? When stocking, I used the thought of stocking with the lowest level of water in the pond which could be around 1 acre rather than at full pool. In this summer heat, my water level is around 1' low and about 1.5 acres.

esshup,
There was actually a small wet spot in the pond but never did see any movement what so ever. With that said, I did end up with Bowfin tearing up my FHM population in less than 2 months so to be completely honest, there is a small chance.

Thanks for all the responses.

Coupe
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#304441 - 08/25/12 02:26 PM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
cardell Offline


Registered: 06/07/10
Posts: 90
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Couppedeville, I would not advise starting over. I was in a very similar situation as you here in Louisiana. And I even Got advise from the hatchery in maurice who suggested that I stock 50 more 3 inch LMB ontop of the 25 that I had already stocked which I purchased from them. I did not make my CNBG & RES purchase from them so contamination could not have been their doing. However the GSF are there. I have a few theories on how this happened, but cant be sure of any of them.
I was pretty much like you. I was pulling up 30 or so GSF every time I took my traps up every few minutes. I was in panic mode. But those 50 extra LMB put a huge dent in the GSF population. I no see or trap less than 20 GSF a year and only catch about 2 eating size a year. I would say that the GSF population is under control and well managed by the LMB. As Bill Cody said the GSF has become a bonus fish. And my family loves the taste of the GSF and wishes we had a stronger GSF population. Go figure!
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#304443 - 08/25/12 02:59 PM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
Couppedeville Offline
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Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Louisiana, Washington
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#304446 - 08/25/12 04:26 PM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
Couppedeville Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Louisiana, Washington
Sorry for the small photos, trying again.

Cardell,
I would only start over if the GSF would end up taking over & destroy what I attempted to establish. If there was no hope and all I would do is waste time,effort & cash then I would just bite the bullet, take a couple of asprin and start over.

It appears it is manageable so I will research and continue on with the plan I origanally had except running this home made trap.

The fish farm in Maurice tried to convince me that I needed to be bass heavy especially since I had small children. That was not what I wanted so I just nodded and told him I would think about it. After a couple thoughts I took the 5-1/2 hour drive to Buffalo Texas and went visist Overton's place. I knew I would get the right genetics, good service from a well respected source. Glad I made that decision. Just wish I would have done it for the CNBG, BG & RE.


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jkvLgqMZYHQ/UDkycBSOkfI/AAAAAAAAI6c/x8Uo7gb4ArM/s800/DSCF0423.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4jtY1yAlE2I/UDkyaunr84I/AAAAAAAAI6M/s9dVwoHogdc/s800/DSCF0424.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ILzmD2RAZo0/UDkyb9Ys27I/AAAAAAAAI6U/tBAHugn-nyI/s800/DSCF0425.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KRd5BIa_7q0/UDkynW1JWnI/AAAAAAAAI6k/KdbzbhFaw9E/s800/DSCF0426.JPG
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#304455 - 08/25/12 08:16 PM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 10457
Loc: northern VA
Those are some nice looking GSF. Very curious how they got in there...
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#304465 - 08/25/12 09:40 PM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
ewest Online   content
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 18946
Loc: Miss.
Some look like HBG to me. First ones look like GSF.
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#304486 - 08/25/12 10:27 PM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: ewest]
sprkplug Offline
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Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Originally Posted By: ewest
Some look like HBG to me. First ones look like GSF.


I thought so too. The mouth looks larger than what I'm used to seeing on a HBG, though.

I would like to see some detailed photos.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#304500 - 08/26/12 05:27 AM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
Couppedeville Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Louisiana, Washington
All,

I think the blue net and the lighting may have played a big part in the photos being a tad bit dark hiding the other colors. All of the fish had the blue/green colors as the first ones I photographed so I assumed they are GSF.

I left my trap in the pond throughout the night so I will run it at first daylight and report back what I find. I will also take some detailed photos of the fish and post them along with a few photos of the insides I will cut open. From what I can tell, the fish are full of eggs and ready to spawn. Does anyone know how many time GSF spawn per year under the right conditions? Is this too late in the year or is it based on water temperature for spawning?

Looking at the fish in the photos, would they represent 1-3" fish that were stocked in late January? If not, second generation fish? If second generation fish, would they be sexually mature at this time and full of eggs for spawning?

The comment on them looking like HBG, which I also did not stock, will GSF, BG & CNBG cross breed and this be a type of hybrid fish? Does anyone have research or other material investigating this scenario?

Thanks once again for the responses and thank you for making this site so addicting!!!!

Wife rolls eyes, "Yea, thanks alot" lol.

Coupe
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#304690 - 08/27/12 04:20 PM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
Couppedeville Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Louisiana, Washington
Ewest,

I stocked the CNBG & NBG in late January 2012 so do you think that the GSF have spawned with the CNBG and or native BG and these are the offspring or would their size suggest I bought these along with the GSF when I stocked? I'm just attempting to understand how and why.

I have read post suggesting too avoid stocking HBG with native BG. Now that it has been confirmed that I have GSF & possible HBG in the pond, knowing that they will x-breed & produce HBG, then how will this affect the balance of the pond in the long haul when my LMB are only 3-4" at this time?

If I stock larger size LMB at this time, all the fish residing in the pond will be subject to predadation so I assume that idea is out of the question. Any other ideas?

Looks like the kids ran the trap, took the GSF and fed the cats until they turned up their noses and then fed a couple of ant piles. I will see what we can gather this afternoon.


Coupe
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#304694 - 08/27/12 04:58 PM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
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Next to impossible to know. I would bet that the stocking was some of all. The way to fix is by adding some BG/CNBG (4-5in) for a few years. They will out reproduce the GSF and HBG over time. LMB will eat some of all (they don't care as long as it fits in their mouth). I would source some CNBG from Overton or Suttle's of 4-5 inches (100 a year for 3 years) and see how things look.
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#304700 - 08/27/12 05:34 PM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
Couppedeville Offline
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Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Louisiana, Washington
Ewest,

Sounds like a plan and will definitely follow through on it.

Thanks for responding and sharing your knowledge.
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#304733 - 08/27/12 10:48 PM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
greatwhiteape Offline


Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 151
Loc: New Jersey
I would absolutely trap and kill as many as I could.
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#304757 - 08/28/12 07:35 AM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13088
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
I don't see a problem. GSF only spawn annually and BG/CNBG will have multiple spawns. In 3 or 4 years, they will be in pretty short supply. I never sweat it when I find them in my trap. I haul them to my larger pond.

It looks like some HBG were mixed with either the BG or CNBG and nature took over.

BTW, they will out fight a comparably sized BG/CNBG every time.
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#304786 - 08/28/12 11:01 AM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
Couppedeville Offline
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Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Louisiana, Washington
Cool deal so I will continue as planned with the trapping and catching them from the pond.

Yesterday the trap had about 25 GSF but all were between 1-3" indicating a second generation maybe???. The smaller fish did not have eggs so I am assuming that they have not reached sexual maturity at this stage??? In all I would say we removed about 75. The trap is in the area of the feeder si it may be time to relocate the trap to a differnet area and see what it produces.

I have enough material to build a second trap so I think I will make it a boys project and put it together tonight while waiting for the storm conditions to arrive. I will take pictures as we go.

Dave,
I guess there were multiple types of fish that I purchased and stocked into the pond. I wished I would have performed the dudilignece in educating myself on identifying each species of fish and then checked what I had purchased before releasing.

Coupe
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#304840 - 08/28/12 06:56 PM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
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Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Coupe, it is double tough to positively identify small BG/CNBG/GSF with 100% certainty. I've seen a lot of them in BG/LMB/CC ponds. They never really hold up to predation.
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Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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#304851 - 08/28/12 07:18 PM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Dave Davidson1]
esshup Offline
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I've seen GSF full of eggs at 2"-3" in length.....
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#304902 - 08/29/12 07:37 AM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
Couppedeville Offline
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Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Louisiana, Washington
Dave/Esshup,

So, if I were to allow the pond to evolve without my interference I would most probably be ok???

Besides, since it is double tough to positively identify small BG/CNBG/GSF with 100% certainty,(Quote fr Dave), this may prevent me from removing a desirable rather than a less than desirable resident?

Here is a picture of a young Camerlot Bass I caught on a worm. My 14 yeqr old says he caught 3 other Canerlot Bass but were all much bigger than this one. The 3 he caught were in the area of the feeder where the pallet structure is located. Catching 4 of the 25 I put in the pond and none of the 75 Florida LMB says something dosen't it? wow

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8gcLrhoGzC0/UD38gml2vQI/AAAAAAAAI8g/IEd8ZjgRjbQ/s800/DSCF0503.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DCgvkAohSUY/UD38qGx5jOI/AAAAAAAAI8o/mvd3jOENma8/s800/DSCF0504.JPG

This was one of the originals I stocked in late January, 6" long weighing in at 4 oz. It appears the AM is doing that body GOOD!!!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FTJ9ebQsB_8/UD378SHhDLI/AAAAAAAAI8I/uH58zPKOAGo/s800/DSCF0500.JPG

This one I stocked in late May and he was in the area of the feeder as well.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zVOHYLB5sLs/UD37qAue1SI/AAAAAAAAI8A/_FVf5ptKX7w/s800/DSCF0498.JPG



Coupe
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#304913 - 08/29/12 09:36 AM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
RER Offline


Registered: 01/23/12
Posts: 1869
Loc: N FL
[quote=Couppedeville]Dave/Esshup,

Here is a picture of a young Camerlot Bass I caught on a worm. My 14 yeqr old says he caught 3 other Canerlot Bass but were all much bigger than this one. The 3 he caught were in the area of the feeder where the pallet structure is located. Catching 4 of the 25 I put in the pond and none of the 75 Florida LMB says something dosen't it? wow



This does not look like a LMB to Me........It kinda looks like a warmouth............


Edited by BobbyRice (08/29/12 09:38 AM)
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#304916 - 08/29/12 09:59 AM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: RER]
esshup Offline
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Both the first, 2nd and last pictures are Warmouth, not LMB.
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#304923 - 08/29/12 10:39 AM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
Couppedeville Offline
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Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Louisiana, Washington
WOW,

I guess I was able to get a wide selection of fisheries from my hatchery for the price of BG & CNBG.

Thanks guys for the identification of the fish. This goes to show me how much I really have to learn about stocking, identifying, and managing a pond.

Now that I think I have LMB, Camelot Bass, Warmouth, Green sunfish, CNBG, BG, HBG, CC, HSB, Bowfin & Redear, is there any special way to manage with such diversity or just monitor by trapping, angling & monitoring relative weight of the species?

According to Wikipedia the warmouth will x-breed with GSF, BG & LMB. If this is the case, I can assume within a couple of years there will be multiple diversity of fish and will be very difficult to differenciate between them.

Coupe
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#304928 - 08/29/12 11:41 AM Re: Green Sunfish in Newly Stocked Pond [Re: Couppedeville]
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No LMB in the pics. One BG pic #3. The last looks like a WM. The first 2 not sure but not LMB.
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