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I'm kinda lost on the graph.. The DO reading was taken away from my diffusers and they had been off for 10hrs..


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.

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The warmer water becomes, the less DO it can hold in simple terms. What JKB was stating by posting the graph is, at 80 degrees F under normal atmospheric conditions, it's unlikely the DO level is 12 mg/l as water that temps maxes out around 8 mg/l.

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Would like some discussion on the chart. Not a DO expert but there must be other factors at work as our water is routinely over 80F and has 5 + ppm O2. Also if the chart is right and there are no other factors then most all the fish in 90 F water would be dead as 2 ppm is death range.

This is a good basic info source. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa002

High Water Temperature
Warm water is much less capable of holding oxygen gas in solution than cool water. For example, water that is 90° F can only hold 7.4 mg/L DO at saturation, whereas water that is 45° F can hold 11.9 mg/L DO at saturation. This physical phenomenon puts the fish in double jeopardy because at high water temperatures their metabolic rates increase, hence their physiologic demand for oxygen increases.
















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Eric, look at the degrees, they're in C not F. Could clear any unclarity up....

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Thanks - your right. So the right half of the chart is irrelevant for our purpose.

Last edited by ewest; 08/23/12 09:59 AM.















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Here is the source for the graph: DO Henry's Law

Arguing with Henry may be a bit difficult at the moment wink

Eric, the temp on the chart is in degrees C. 90F is 32.2 Celsius.

Here is some info from the EPA: DO EPA

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Originally Posted By: ewest
Thanks - your right. So the right half of the chart is irrelevant for our purpose.


Pretty much so.

I ordered a couple more gizmos to do some stuff on the right side of the chart to see how Air works -vs- pure O2 in concentrating DO for tank aeration. Bet I can max my MT meter out at 50ppm.

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Originally Posted By: Bluegillerkiller
I'm kinda lost on the graph.. The DO reading was taken away from my diffusers and they had been off for 10hrs..


The meter used may be out of calibration, or it may have been on the % scale, but that is for measuring %O2 in Air. Simplest explanation.

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Originally Posted By: Bluegillerkiller
I like all these comments lol.. N8ly the guy who stocked them said I should make a plan for stocking every other year that was kinda my plan.. They will be getting caught and ate not baby'd like my BG smile


I havent met the guy yet but he sounds like a nice honest guy. I bet you will end up putting some in next year though and then starting the whole every other year thing...


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Honestly I never worry about my DO.. I let my aeration do it's job and if I have a fish kill I'll have to figure something else out.. I'll just throw the feed and forage and hope for 10 pounds thank for the info guys..


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.

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man this string has me thinking about making my little pond into a HSB/RES/BG factory...HSB are the toughest fighting fish I've ever caught, bar none. That includes a good bit of ocean fishing.


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Should I assume that HSB would be difficult to raise in an RAS?

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Originally Posted By: dlowrance
man this string has me thinking about making my little pond into a HSB/RES/BG factory...HSB are the toughest fighting fish I've ever caught, bar none. That includes a good bit of ocean fishing.


HSB would have a very hard time controlling reproducing pure BG. With the help of CC, they can usually stay on top of HBG reproduction. HSB can be added with LMB already in a pond though. You should however try to get the largest HSB you can source so they don't become expensive LMB food...

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Originally Posted By: Bullhead
Should I assume that HSB would be difficult to raise in an RAS?


No, if water quality is maintained, they would be a candidate. Just need a pretty good sized RAS system. Many HSB are brought to market in RAS systems.

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Originally Posted By: Bullhead
Should I assume that HSB would be difficult to raise in an RAS?


Talking with the guy you ordered the book from. HSB are quite productive in an RAS. He said they are actually more well suited to and easier than YP. Quite a bit more profitable too! Unfortunately, HSB are illegal here. You will need a bigger tank as CJ mentioned.

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The only downside to hybrid striped bass is if you upgrade to an aquaponics system, and you have to add potassium for the plants the hybrid striped bass can not handle it.

I saw one poster on s fish site say hybrid striped bass were the most difficult fish for him to raise in an RAS, but it was obvious he had a lot to learn about water quality.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/25/12 09:40 AM.

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The HSB are hammering the feed.. It's quite a site to see.. While they were feeding I threw a couple live grasshoppers out in the mix they wanted absolutely nothing to do with them..


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.

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They've never seen one and have no clue it's food...

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Another thing I noticed is their only feeding from one of 3 feeders..


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

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We normally see DO in the afternoon at 130% saturation. In fertilie water routinely see on sunny days at 180% or even beyond the meter capacity(200%). This would explain why BGK had 12 ppm at 74 degrees.

Also keep in mind the termocline might be your friend when it comes to the larger HSB they can find a zone of cool yet decent oxygen level.


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Thought this was interesting from YSI, If you don't mind reading. (They have a PDF of this with graphs. I had it converted to a word document with graph's, but none of the graphs showed up here.)

Some of YSI’s customers are occasionally concerned about observing “Percent Air Saturation” dissolved oxygen readings in environmental water (lakes, streams, estuaries, etc.) that are above 100%. The issue is usually one of semantics. How can something be more than 100% saturated? To understand the overall concept, it is necessary to consider the sources of dissolved oxygen in environmental water and to appreciate that equilibration between air and water is rarely perfect in environmental situations. Air is certainly one source of dissolved oxygen in environmental water. If air were the only source of oxygen and if environmental water equilibrated with the air above it instantly during temperature changes, then it would indeed be impossible to observe values above 100% air saturation unless the sensor was in error. Neither of these “if statements” is true, however, for most bodies of water.

Oxygen Sources
Photosynthetically-active species (plants, algae, etc.) are common additional sources of dissolved oxygen in the environment and, in many bodies of water, can, in fact, be the dominant factor in determining the dissolved oxygen content. It is important to remember that these organisms produce pure oxygen (not air) during photosynthesis. Air is approximately 21% oxygen and thus it contains about five times less oxygen than the pure gaseous element produced during photosynthesis. The oxygen content of any liquid is defined by Henry’s Law as being proportional to the partial pressure (or percent) of oxygen in the gas above it. In practical terms, this means that if air and oxygen from compressed gas cylinders are bubbled into separate water samples, the sensor reading from the oxygen-saturated water will be about five times larger than that of the sensor reading from the air-saturated water. If the sensor is calibrated to 100% in air saturated water or water-saturated air (as is done for most YSI meters), then the reading in oxygen-saturated water will be about 500% air-saturation. There is no difference between the oxygen from the compressed gas cylinder in the above hypothetical experiment and that produced by photosynthetically active species in environmental water. Thus, photosynthesis can readily account for “percent air-saturation” values of between 100 and 500% depending on the efficiency and concentration of the photosynthetically-active species present.

Non-Ideal Air/Water Equilibration
Another possible cause of dissolved oxygen readings greater than 100% air saturation arises from the fact that equilibration (or equalization) of the oxygen content of water with the air above it is seldom rapid except in fast-flowing streams. This fact allows temperature changes to produce water conditions that lead to dissolved oxygen readings of over 100% air saturation.

The following example may be useful in understanding this concept: The dissolved oxygen reading of a relatively stagnant lake at night is 9.65 mg/L when the temperature is 17° C. This corresponds to 100% air saturation. During the next day, the sun warms the water to 22° C where 8.22 mg/L represents the 100% air-saturated value. However, the temperature change has occurred rapidly enough to prevent the oxygen in the water from “escaping” to the air because of non-ideal equilibration conditions. The lake still contains 9.65 mg/L of dissolved oxygen, but now the temperature is 22° C where 9.65 mg/L corresponds to 117% air-saturation ({9.65/8.22} x 100). If the lake had been equipped with an efficient aerator, the equilibration process would have been rapid and prevented the observation of readings greater than 100% during the temperature change.

Field Data
From our extensive experience in the field and testing our instruments at the YSI facility, values over 100% air saturation have indeed proven to be quite common. The documented studies in three separate bodies of water in southwest Ohio demonstrate where these “over-saturated” values have occurred.

This first study is of a slow moving stream where a large diurnal cycle is observed for dissolved oxygen. This pattern is thought to be primarily due to the photosynthesis by day and respiration by night of the “green” organisms in the stream, although temperature changes with non-ideal equilibration between air and water may also contribute to the cycle.

The second study pertains to a very clear, spring-fed 12-acre lake which contains a variety of weeds and suspended algae. Again, dissolved oxygen readings above 100% air saturation are common.

The third study shows data from a small farm pond that has a very high algal content. It can be seen from the data taken in this study that readings well over 200% air saturation were observed during the study.

When unusual or unexpected sensor readings are encountered in environmental water, it is important to have post-study quality assurance data to prove that the sensor was functioning properly. Standard YSI QA forms are provided with the data plots to show that the sensors did not drift significantly during the studies and that the DO data are reliable. Note that the DO drifts (as determined by placing the sensor in air-saturated water or water-saturated air after the study) were -5%, -2%, and +1.8 % for the three studies, respectively.


Summary
Dissolved oxygen readings of greater than 100% air saturation can occur in environmental water because of the production of pure oxygen by photosynthetically-active organisms and/or because of non-ideal equilibration of dissolved oxygen between the water and the air above it. In YSI’s experience, this “over saturation” is quite common, with photosynthesis being the factor most often responsible for its existence.
While it is clear that readings greater than 100% air saturation are possible in environmental water, only a well-defined standardized quality assurance program will provide confirmation that the over saturated readings are correct and not due to calibration error or sensor malfunction.



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hard to replace expereience if you have any amount of phyto and it is sunny it is strange to not see oxygen levels in excess of saturation. If it lower than saturation that afternoon it is a sign somehting is up and warrants further investigation. I look at percetn saturation almost as as I do obsolute values. We for sure look at saturation levels in our fish hauling tanks, if going to less than 100% you best figure it out in a hurry unless deliverying fish straight to the frying pan.


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Not questioning your experience or anything like that. I just hit the reply button rather than the quick reply, so it showed you up on it.

Basically, this is a good indicator that using the % scale is misleading at best. Concentration in solution is much more accurate.

After all, Oxygen dissolved in water is what the fish need, rather than the percent of oxygen that is in the water, not actually dissolved in it. Henry's Law. Requires pressure to pull this off.

Like it really matters!

Last edited by JKB; 08/27/12 05:43 PM.
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Getting back to the HSB, I had only expected LMB and BG in my 2 acre pond. I now have 100 6-8" HSB and 100 LMB 6-8" being delivered this week. Having my own pond is very new to me so I hope I'm stocking at the right time with the right fish. I had a complete fish-kill in June and have added over 300 BG (RES, HBG, BG) in past 3 weeks and adding maybe 300-500 more in October (CSBG) and whatever I can round up before then.

I've always been a huge fan of HSB, my biggest to date just over 8 lbs. Fishing TJ's pond on Sunday I had to catch one close to that on the first cast (using a pellet-fly smile.

Now I'm pretty stoked to have them in my own pond. But now for the learning curve of pellet feeding. What kind, what size, how often, etc...

I've learned so much thanks to everyone on Pond Boss!

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100 for a 2 acre pond does fly in the face of conventional stocking advice of 25/acre, but if you feed them I am evidence that high density HSB stocking can work if you are dedicated to feeding.

I think this is a perfect period in your fishery life to stock as your LMB won't be hammering them due to their low qty and smaller size. 100 is a good number, expect to see some in the 16+" range next year, and you know what happens after that!

See if you can hold off stocking until temps drop...just helps a little when transporting. Speaking of which, how are you going to pick up the fish? Do you need help? I have O2 and tanks.


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