Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Stocking options

I have renovated an old pond that is 1.5 acres. 30% of the area is 8 to 12 feet deep. No fish are present. It has a spring that feeds 50 GPM at the surface, even in this drought. It will be difficult to aerate this one, no electric, and it is 1500 feet thru rough terrain from the nearest source. Windmill is a possibilty.

I have been tossing around a plan to stock SMB. But I also want regular BG. I know, big problems with the two. So I am thinking of aternatives, one of which could be creating another small pond in the future. This pond might be 1/4 acre at the largest.

Curious on thoughts of which types of fish would do best in each one. I am thinking that the smaller one would be easier to manage SMB. The bigger one is good for BG because I need to have LMB to manage them, and from what I have learned here is that LMB get harder to manage when pond sizes get smaller. Does my thinking make sense? Opinions?

Thanks, Jim

BG and SMB typically do not mix. SMB just can't keep up. It could be possible if you were to stock some single sex LMB to help though. Just be very sure you know what gender you're stocking.

If you want trophy/large BG that can be done in the small pond with LMB. A feeder will help. What is hard to do is have a balanced small pond with BG and LMB. This is because of the reproductive nature of the 2 species. They both tend to overpopulate which causes managing for balance to be similar to balancing on a knife edge - attempting to maintain an unstable state between 2 stable end results (BG crowded or LMB crowded are stable conditions). The LMB crowded state (easy to maintain) will provide a population of large BG due to most of the small ones being eaten leaving more food for the survivors.

I would use the large pond for SMB and other fish (no LMB and no BG). You have lots of options. YP , RES , FH , GShiners , WE , trout and more.

O.k.... I will keep looking into and preparing to have SMB in my current pond. I was leaning towards that way to begin with. If it doesn't work out, I'm wondering about certain side effects, like forage fish. Would any become problematic in other scenarios, like if I would switch it to a LMB/BG pond?

Even though it is possible to build a second pond, I know that getting around to it easier said than done. That's why I am willing to think outside the box to try other things. I have never knowingly caught RES. How do they compare to BG in table fare and sport/fight? Could I do a heavier stocking of those instead of BG, and what would they eat if they don't have snails? How many would I be able to harvest per year in a 1.5 acre pond?

If I would throw in all one sex LMB with SMB, would the LMB still chase the SMB off nesting sites if the LMB weren't spawning?

That's the nice thing about a SMB pond. It's easy to start over. You can always revert it to a LMB pond by simply introducing LMB and BG. You can't do the opposite. Once it's a LMB pond, it stays a LMB pond.

From the archives - http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92482#Post92482

REDEAR SUNFISH = RES






Eats zooplankton, and small live prey items including mollusks. Typically won’t consume pelleted food unless specifically trained to do so.

Low to moderate fecundity.

Can reach sizes in ponds exceeding three pounds.

Excellent palatability.


http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3378 Redear Sunfish FishBase

They are very hard to find in PA, Ohio has pretty much the same temps.

What is hard to find, RES or SMB? Do temps have something to do with finding them? By the comments on this forum, it sounds like everybody has a hard time finding SMB for stocking.

SMB are more harder to locate. A farm will tell you they will have them in fall but often the fish are unavailable. Be prepared for that. Then in spring SMB become even harder to locate because what fish are available in fall are all sold by spring.

RES as YOY 1"-3" fingerlings are commonly available but the larger ones 5"-7" for restocking are very rare. Those RES 3"-5" are scarse to rare.

Is it going to be possible to have enough RES to harvest( say 100#/year) and to spawn enough so that I will not have to restock them? SMB would be the only predator. I may add HSB. I am not interested in Walleye. YP is a possibility but I doubt my pond would be good for them. Would the SMB be able to keep CC from overpopullating like in a BG/LMB scenario?

I figure that if the initial SMB are hard to find, that's OK. It will give the forage base more time to grow.

Thanks to all, Jim

And when I say 100#, that would be on the table. So that would be a guess of 200# live fish, or 200 1# RES? Is this reasonable?

Harvest rate for RES will depend on size of pond and its productivity. You might be able to get 100fish/yr from 1.5 acres but I doubt it could be 100 fish and not 100# (pounds). An 8" RES weighs about 0.36 lbs, and 9" is 0.52 lbs. Thus 100 8"-9" RES weigh about 44 lbs. If RES are the only sunfish in the pond the chances are better at 66fish/ac/yr harvestable. Other things that will lower the harvest is how many RES young are consumed by predators. Heavy predation will IMO reduce the recruitment and harvestable numbers. RES are not real prolific and even moderate predation could strongly reduce recruitment. Food source for RES and pond productivity are important to a pond's carrying capacity of RES. Not a lot of research has been done with the biomass of RES in ponds.
YP will live, reproduce, recruit, and grow in just about any Ohio pond if LMB are not present or kept to a low density and smaller size. Feeding pellets helps grow more and bigger YP similar to what pellets do for BG and other fish. YP accept pellets better than RES and are easier to locate as pellet trained stockers than RES. YP at 8"-12" would provide harvestable panfish reducing the need for harvesting 100 RES per year (66/ac/yr).

Both species are hard to find here. RES being harder then SMB, at least you can goto the river and find SMB. I have never caught a RES in PA. I hear they exist but I dont know anyone who has caught one.

Fenders fish Hatchery in SE OH Baltic-New Bedford grow the biggest RES stockers all raised and adapted to Ohio climate. They also usually have fingerling SMB in the fall.

I have been to their place and done business with them. They seem like good people. They revived my pond interest three years ago, which led me to renovating our old pond. They are going to be where I get my fish, as long as they have them. Its about a two hour drive for me, but it's a pleasant drive.

RES are illegal to stock in PA. There are a handful of small lakes in southern PA where RES were stocked before the PFBC had a change of heart and made stocking them illegal.

i have question
how about stocking pike
maybe 2 per acre
i was thinking about stocking pike
i have 5-6 acre pond (planning) with smallmouth rainbow trout
golden shiners and crawfish
i was hoping to stock a few pike to eat the small bass/trout and in the end having bigger bass/trout and a fat pike

See your new post in the same forum for my answer to this question...

Would it be safe to assume that no matter what fish are in a pond, the amount in pounds that can be harvested yearly is about the same? A little more detailed would be if you would compare a SMB and RES pond versus a LMB and BG pond, the amount in pounds that could be harvested from either one would be close to the same. This is of course considering the same body of water for each example. I am thinking it goes right along with all the past posts I have been reading about carrying capacity. Possibly there are past posts on harvesting numbers I have not found yet.

The amount of growth is related to the productivity of the dirt and water including climate and supp feeding. Fish species could effect it a little if stocked correctly but much more if stocked with species that don't work together.

I suppose I should back up a bit in my thoughts...and questions.

Goals for my pond, probably in this order:

- a pond that supplies food for the table. I would hope for 100#+ /year. Size is 1.5 Acres.
- a pond that is on the lower side of monetary management.
- fishing in a pond that yields nice fish, but I don't care about trophy fish.

So what fish combination would be the best fit?

fish n chips, will you be aerating and/or having a feeder on the pond? What species of fish do you not like to eat?

I plan on feeding. Most likely with a feeder of some sort.

Aeration is tough because of the remote area. I need to get a better distance counted from the pond to electric source. I'm guessing it to be 1500'. If i can't do the regular aerator like most have, I think I will get a windmill after a few years into it.

The family likes all kinds of fish. I think the family favorite is BG. Then Perch. Thats why I was wondering in earlier posts above if RES could supply all needed. Bill says doubtfull, but perch could be added to supplement. But it sounds like there would not be that much perch to harvest either. I understand that the young SMB would have to be thinned too, but would they be too small/enough for table fare? Same holds true for the BG scenario and LMB. But I am thinking you would harvest the larger LMB to keep BG a better size(so they won't stunt but not trophies). But then you would be harvesting mid size BG, and would that provide enough? CC could be added or HSB. In the end, if I am understanding past posts correctly, a pond on average could hold 500# per acre. So 1.5 acres is 750#. Can I harvest my expected amount from this? It seems like I am expecting to much in any type of scenario.

Cost- it seems to me that a SMB start-up is on the higher side, but the maintainance may be lower into the future, compared to a LMB scenario.

We went thru almost the same scenario a while ago. Here's that thread. I'll bet a number of your questions will be answered if you read it.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=196000&page=1

Thanks Esshup. I had not come across that post yet. I will read it later and come back with any additional questions......Jim

EDIT: Yep, thats a good referal for harvesting basics and what might be realistic.

So after reading that thread, I am being convinced to go in the direction of BG to meet my goals. In that thread the fella was told that BG would be a more productive fish for supplying table fare, but he decided to go with his plan of SMB. It was asked how one would approach the best way for growing and harveting Bg, and alot of info like feeding, etc was given. I did not see mention of a harvesting strategy decided.

I'm thinking it would go like this in a very simplified description:

Stock pond with BG and LMB. Manage it like a BG trophy pond, allthough I'm not interested in that(see above). CC would add to the table fare and take up a different part of the ecosysytem. HSB could be added with a somewhat more expensive cost compared to CC, but they will eat feed and don't deter from the LMB & BG growth rates/food chain.

Questions:
1)What guess would be your recommended slot size be in harvesting BG to get the best food production?
2) What guess would be the size of LMB to keep in the pond to make this happen? Otherwise, harvest what sizes?

I fully understand that there alot of "it depends". I am asking in general, if thats possible. Just wondering if I am thinking this out in the proper direction.