Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Need so much help I don't know where to start.

I just bought a property with a 2 acre 40+ year old lake that used to be a sand pit. The water is very clear to about 18". I have caught a few 12+ inch bass, and seen a few "perch", I don't really know what they were. There are some shallow banks, and some drop offs to about 40' where the lake is naturally fed by a spring. I want to have a pond where my kids can catch fish, I don't care what kind.

I had a local fish management guy come out and he told me I need to stock "big" bass, "big" coppernose bluegill, and some channel ctafish. He also told me I need a "2 plate" diffusser, and an automatic feeder. He said I need the big fish stocked so that they don't getr eaten when they are introduced. He told me I don't need fertilization.

Anyway, he seemed kind of pushy on the "big fish" and not willing to tell me how to get the fish I have to reporoduce and make more. Is this normal, to just stock a bunch of new fish? He told me that you stock the fish to catch, catch them, and then buy some more next year. Seems kind of screwy. I want to set up an ecosystem. I have been reading a lot on the forum, but don't even know where to start.

Any help woukld be great! thansk.

Dr.,
You will get much better and broader recommendations from others on this forum but I will chime in on a few things...

18" is not "very clear." I would say that is perfect assuming the reason is algae in your water and not something else such as particulates.

You already have 12+" bass in there so stocking 4" or smaller copper nose bluegill (CNBG) will only result in food for the existing bass. I've read here that LMB will eat bluegill(BG) up to 1/3 their length.

As for the "big" bass(LMB), the only reason you would want to add large bass is if you have an over-population of BG (and/or other smaller prey) or to ensure they do not get eaten by already existing larger bass.

As for channel cats (CC), I stocked them in my pond along with BG and LMB and have been sorry. They are difficult to catch and will prey upon BG when they get bigger (I did not know this when it was suggested to stock them). Some people really like CC but I don't have a particular affinity for them; just thought they would "add" something to the pond.

There are alot of other questions that need to be answered. A fish "survey" likely needs to be done on your pond to get the overall sizes and populations of all the fish types swimming in your pond before a comprehensive plan can be put into affect. With that said, I would be cautious of a supplier "pushing" big (and way more costly) fish.

Dan

Dr Driller, welcome to Pond Boss. Very wise of you to question that fish supplier.

As Dan pointed out, there are a few more questions that need answered before solid advice can be given.

You mention that you just want a pond where your kids can catch fish and have been catching small LMB (largemouth bass) and seen "perch". I assume these are bluegill (BG). How frequently do you catch those small LMB and could you target those BG soon and see what their condition is? If you catch many small skinny LMB and very few BG, but are big, you already have a kid's dream of a pond. One of the best ponds for kids to fish is one that has an overabundance of LMB because they're aggressive and constantly hungry and kids don't care what size they are.

Keep in mind as your kids get older their preferences may (will) change so some aggressive management of these LMB might be necessary. But that can be addressed later. Right now, if you can fill us in on a few more things about the pond I think you'll be well on your way to a pond your kids will enjoy for a long time.

Dr,

Stay tuned your going to get all the advice you need right here bud. I agree with Dan here though that you may need to have a survey (shock your pond) if you can. That would tell you so much more what's going on in there. Who ever does your shock survey will give you / should give you good advice as to what to do next and why. They will check your water and all kinds of good stuff. If you can't afford it I understand. One other good way to tell some of what you have is fish it hard for a few weeks and see what you catch. Come back here and let us know your results and we can go from there. Good luck my friend 3 years ago I was in your exact same position. And like Omaha said you did good to think twice about what that guy told you. I don't think that was very sound advice. Hold on some others will chime in and get you on your way I am sure.

Welcome Dr, you can count on what Dan and Omaha said, and there will be others checking in later. I wouldn't stock CC either. I think that you should get someone to "shock" the lake and see what you have before you make any major investments in fish.
Get started on the right foot, and it'll be easier to manage when you know what you have to work with. Also, don't let your fish guy push you, or talk you into stocking crappie...

I'll chime in a bit with my VERY limited experience. My pond is about 1.5 acres and I have CC along with BG, HBG, LMB, BH, GSF & the infamouse WCP. I like CC fishing and mine are pretty easy to catch. The big ones will eat some of the bigger BG, GSF and even the WCP though. But I don't see it as a problem.

You can also try getting some fish food, Purina GFC or Sportsman's Chopice Trophy Fish Food and throw that out once a day at the same time in the same spot for a week and see what comes to it. I didn't realize how many CC and BG I had till this last week when I started feeding them at 8pm every night. Just a thought. Good luck!

Thanks for the help. The fish guy said he doesn't do electroshock because it's too expensive and he can tell what fish I have "by looking". He said he's done thousands of ponds and he "knows".

Find another fish guy.

Yikes. I don't want to make assumptions, but I wouldn't return that guy's calls.

X-ray vision?

OMG that is just crazy talk??? I dont' think even the great Bob Lusk could just look at your pond and know what's in it!!! That is almost comical.... Wow! Thanks for the laugh! Not sure what he thinks is to much for a pond to be shocked? It's not really to bad considering what all they do for you. I have heard everything from 750 to 1100 bucks. If you can afford it, 750 is a small price to pay to know what's up in your new pond and what direction you need to go next! Good luck bud! Keep us posted.

I think he was saying the fish guy didn't want to spend the money on his own shockboat. From what I understand, they are pretty expensive.

I told my fish guy that I read on pond boss to get shocked to see what fish I have. He told me "you can't believe everything you read on the Internet". I was wondering how he got superman's X-ray vision too. But, I don't know anything about ponds, that's why I am posting.

Ps, I should have listened to my wife when she said she didn't like the fish guy.

I wonder if you need special glasses for that technique?

lol you got that right. sounds to me like your wife is a good judge of charecter. well your first move is don't do anything till you research it and read about it and ask about it. so your going in the right direction. Shocking you pond will tell you sooooooooo much about it if done right. i think you said your pond was 2 acres right? that is so hard to determine what is or is not in there.... even if you fish it a good bit still hard to tell. if you have a spot to get a shock boat down there and can afford it that is the first thing i would do. you will be so glad you did. what has taking me about 3 years to figure out you will know in 1 day!!! if you can find someone in your area to do it which i bet you can being in texas. i would have done it myself but my pond had at the time no way to get a boat down to it. Good luck DR and keep us posted.

DR, your area of Texas is loaded with reputable fish professionals. I personally believe that this guy is more interested in selling fish than he is in your ponds well being. Pay attention to your wife. She seems to be a pretty good BS sniffer. Like the movie said "Run, Forrest, Run.".

I do agree with the "fish" guy that an existing bass population will pretty well eat any forage fish that you stock. In a pond, everything eats everything that will fit in its mouth.

At this point, with the water temps we have, I wouldn't stock anything. Survival might be pretty iffy. I've turned down a couple of requests to stock some neighbors ponds.

Take some time getting to know your pond. Learn about it. Keep a log of everything you catch. Electrofishing is a great idea but it never tells the whole story. It is a tool. Your fish log is also a tool and will be your ponds best friend. There is nothing a professional pond manager appreciates more than a log before he electroshocks.

You probably need to manage the pond instead of adding fish.

Dave, that's about what I thought. I wanted help to manage it, not just stock it with larger fish. I asked what happens to the little fish that hatch, and he told me they get eaten, that's why I need big fish stocked. With that logic, you'll always have to stock forever. So, my plan is:
1. Kill the willow and water weeds, primrose I think.
2. Aerate
3. Put some type of structure for the little fish
4. Maybe feed?????

Again, thanks so much for the advice.

I also couldn't afford to shock my pond. I use a pond log, a LOT of fishing, fish food and live traps. I have three set in my pond and they have told me that I have WCP, GSH and even CC fingerlings.

Dave what month here in North/East Texas do you
think it would be ok to start stocking again?
I am considering some adult Hybrid Striped Bass
and a few adult Hybrid Crappie.

I cant' speak for Dave but here in Arkansas which is not to far from you all. I do most of my stocking from October to November then wait till mid to end of Feb depending on temps. through end of April. That has always worked well for me.

Hey thanks RC. Sounds like a plan. RC would it be pretty much ok to install aeration any time of year? I am saving my pennies to add aeration at some point.

DR, not a perennial stocking plan at all. When and if you do need to stock you should stock 5 to 6 inch bluegills. 99% of the fish eggs laid or hatched never make it to sexual maturity. They get eaten an it's a good thing. Texas BG generally have what is called a rolling spawn. In other words it keeps going from Spring thru Fall. Maybe 12 months in the Houston area. But those small BG are what feeds the other small fish.

After you have some experience with your new toy your log should tell you whether you need to remove bass. If it's 40 years old I would bet that you need to remove every bass under 14 inches. Escort them to the kitchen or flower beds or? Most Texas ponds are bass heavy. Catch and release and too small keep lets bass over eat their food supply. So, you are the management tool. But that bass heavy judgement is premature on my part. Start fishing with a set of digital scales and ruler in your tackle box or pocket. Go to lakework.com and see Greg's WR chart. That should tell you whether your fish are under weight for their length. Under weight generally means that the environment is lacking in the proper size forage that your fish need to grow. And a bass need forage that is 1/4 to 1/3 their body size to thrive. It's a matter of energy expended vs calories received. When the WR factor starts increasing you will have made some improvement and taken some pressure off the forage base.

Next year you might consider stocking about 20 pounds of tilapia. But do it in the Spring. Tilapia are pretty sensitive in warm water stocking unless you know a lot about acclimating fish. Tilapia pull off some pretty heavy spawns and just about everything eats their progeny. They can take some pressure off your BG base. You have some time to learn about the tilapia.

I would take a water sample and send it to TAMU to get a water analysis.

As I started out saying, don't get in a hurry. Fish it, learn about it, read the posts here and don't stop asking questions.

This stuff is addictive. My number 1 advice to new pond owners is to never lie to your wife about the expenses. You're gonna get caught.

keep us posted! sounds like a fun project.

So far we have caught about a dozen bass, half over 12" and half under 12", and one 9" crappie. I have been throwing fish food and have seen 2 or 3 " perch" looking fish with bright yellow tails, about 3 inches long.

Would you still stock 5-6" bluegills? Overton fisheries have them. How many would you stock?Thanks
P.s. I have 4 boys elementary school age. I have 4k to spend. I asked them if they would rather have a 4 wheeler or some fish for the pond. Without hesitation, they all said FISH. So, I'm ready to stock.