Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Help Capturing Water from a spring

First off that guys an idiot.. As far as single steam wire I'm considering the same thing, because i can get it for free..

I ran 500 ft with solid 12 wire and ran a 1/2 hp submersible well pump with no problems at all. That was 220 though so I was only pulling about 6 amps each leg but still I would think 12 wire would be fine.

You should have used 10/3. Always use 10 gauge on 220 volt applications. Yes, 12 gauge is all he needs for his pump since it uses 120 volts. It probably won't draw much more amperage than a ceiling fan.

I've never ran 10 gauge on any 220. You can run 14 gauge if you want it's all about amp draw and distance.. You shouldn't be pulling much amps so 12 will work 10 is overkill and expensive.. I'm running my 3/4 hp 500' ft away on 12 ga (will be not yet) there's so little amp draw on those to 110 legs that 14 would have worked probaly but I went with 12 to be safe..

I see some 500' insulated 10 and 12 gauge going for 30.00 or so

Guys I am confused with the 110 verses 220 pump. How many single wires would I need to run for each system. I take it the 220 would be less expensive to run.
One more question. If I go with a 110 pump, Can I plug my loong 600' wire into a exterior outlet from the house. I think it is either 14 or 12 gauge wire going to the exterior GFI of the house. thanks

timberframe, I seriously doubt that you can drop the wire size in the line.

BGK, take a close read on this that I dug up on the 'net in regards to wire size, motor load, starting amps and voltage drop over a 500' run.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071229090732AAmelbm

If I was running the wire for myself, I wouldn't run less than 10 ga, and I'd give serious consideration to 8 ga. If you might at some time in the future want to hook up another electrical item to it, you'll be overloading the circuit if going with less than 10 ga.

What's cheaper in the long run, spending the extra now for the increased wire size and bury it once, or find out in 2 years that you really need to bury another wire?

With that said, I'm not an electrician.

Well, I was an electrician in the Navy and I wired my house for electric, emergency generator, telephone, and cable TV. It all passed code. 10 gauge is the minimum required in 220 volt applications, period. As for long runs, buried underground, I'd just have to do my homework, but 12 gauge is definitely out of the equation. Just because it works doesn't mean it's safe.

Well, I damned up the spring and hooked up 2" pipe from the pond to the spring. I hooked up a generator to a 8000 gph pump and started pumping. The pump is overkill and pumps the spring pond dry in about 30 minutes. Can I run the 8000 gph mag pump for hours at a time if it is only getting limited water supply? I didnt know if a mag pump would be OK or not.

TF If it's a submersible pump it needs to be in water or it will burn up, you can get a float switch for it so that it will shut off when water is low.
http://www.westsidewholesale.com/automat...yback-plug.html

Just got back too this.. I'm not saying in all applications you can run 12ga 500' it depends on amp load.. 220 is no cheaper than 110 to operate.. 220 will have less draw on startup (lights won't dim or flicker) you might not be able to run 12ga 500' depending on amp draw from your pump..

PS- Oklahoma must have different code than the rest of the unites states. Because 10ga minimum for 220 is BS. I wiredmy house with my certified electrician cousin and certified electrician coworker and and the only 10 ga int house in running to my mig welder.. 12ga is fine and passes code..

BGK, it's not only the wire size, but it's the length of run that also needs to be figured into the equasion to figure out the correct wire size for the application.

I understand that.. But wire size needed is determined primarily by amp draw.. If your running 220 @ 1amp you could use 16 ga wire but if your running 220@1amp 1000' you might need 14-12.. That is just a hypothetical example don't hold me too any of that.. On my 3/4 220amp gast pump I think it pulls something like 3-4 per leg, which is nothing so I can get away with 12ga for a 500' run..

There is electrical websites that have charts for all this.. Some even said I could run 14ga but I chose 12 just to be safer

All dependent on amp draw

Just out of curiosity and not picking nits. Was the amp daw that you used for your pump the running amp draw or the start-up draw?

That's running amp, also I'm not exactly sure if those are the exact #'s can't remember.. That's why I ran it 220 instead of 110, less amp draw on startup, won't dim lights or flicker lights on start up.. Basically the draw is split in half on 220..

Guys,
The 2008 NEC book say's on branch circuit's 600v or less you are allowed 3 percent voltage drop. That's 3.6 v on 120v system.

Formula for VD = 2K x L x I / cm

K= Resistance in ohms of one circular mil foot of conductor(12.9)
L= Length
I= Amps
cm=circular mils

If we plug in the info. 2x12.9=25.8 L=600 I=2.9 which comes up to 44892 If you divide that buy the circular mil of #10(10380)comes up to 4.32 . Slightly over the 3.6 allowed by code. if we plug in #8(cm 16510) we get 2.7 All that being said I personally I personally would run the #10 (close enough) But keep in mind if that pump ends up being inadequate you dont leave any room for upgrade. In that case use #8. Another option with the price of copper what it is would be to use aluminum.Which fi sized correctly and installed correctly would be fine. Bluegillerkiller is correct 120 or 240 makes no differance in the formula.

Timberframe,
I will add if you went with Aluminun you could use direct burial URD cable.

If your interested let me know and we can calculate a size.

Running extension cords in conduit is generally not a good idea(Maybe for very short distances).Having insulated conductors inside an insulated jacket inside a conduit does not allow for heat dissapation(heat being a big enemy when your talking electricity).That would get into a whole other issue with derating your insulation value.

Have you considered a hydraulic ram pump? If your topography allows this to work you can pump water without electricity. If you are unfamiliar with them, they are a pump that is powered by falling water, Google it.

Well I finally got it done. First I ran 850 foot of 16 or 18 gauge extension cords down to a ice cold spring. I hooked it up to a 3000gph pump. It pumped fine for about a month, so I went ahead and purchased 850' of underground 12/2 wire with ground as a permanent solution. (My neighbors were all glad to get their extension cords back). I think I could easily run another pump off of this setup if needed. Now I am pumping fresh cold spring water into the existing pond. Just one more thing to keep the water cooler.

You should run 3/4; Schedule 40 PVC with 2#8 copper xhhw and 1#12 copper ground. You cannot run any power cable or extension cords in conduit. You need to use individual conductors. It would be cheaper to use #6AL. Not a big fan of aluninum. Your first pump probably burned up from low voltage. You should also put it on a GFI circuit breaker. If you plan to plug it in or use a WP GFI receptacle.R&R is spot on with his voltage drop calculation.