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Joined: Jan 2012
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What about local news media to question the guy?
"I have not failed, I have only found 10,000 ways that won't work"
Thomas Edison
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John, we did---five samples. If I recall the max e coli level for wading/swimming is somewhere around 380; the pond clocked in at around 1200. The sample taken directly off the pile was 20,100. Spinner----that is brilliant; wished I'd thought of it myself. Only problem is we live too close to the big city. It would help if we lived in my wife's hometown, about 100 miles SW of here, where one day I read the lead story about some college students calling in a bogus order for 5 pies from the local Pizza Hut.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 342
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Dec 2006
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Have you checked for water contamination downstream from your pond? perhaps if you had other neighbors aware and concerned with what is happening to the ecology in your area there could be more action taken.
It sounds like you have taken the proper steps to try and first ask the neighbor and seek agency help when that didn't work, but I would probably have to swallow my pride a bit and try and to set a face to face meeting with the neighbor and see if you can't successfully plead your case while also nicely insinuating that you have received clear indication from agencies that he is in violation and that you don't want to BUT WILL sue him resulting in high costs if you two can't reach agreement.
If he is a horses ass that you already know is not going to respond to that approach, I would write a blog, or have someone you know write about the issue and distribute it to as many area newspapers as you can to see if someone will publish it. Area ecology groups may also want to take up your cause and get publicity to the issue. When your neighbor starts getting funny looks at the grocery store from the people in your area he probably will fix the error of his ways.
"Our Life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, Simplify" -Henry David Thoreau -
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Cap, we're past that and my pride is not an issue; he is certified HA. As to the water contamination downstream from our pond, I would assume that it will be same as from our pond, which is.......very, very high. From the same county agency that "found no violations" I have a statement that based on the e coli report we should not engage in any activities such as "swimming, wading, fishing, etc." What he doesn't get is that because the state and county told him that he can store his manure wherever he wants, however he wants they did not give him permission to contaminate my pond. This is a major error on his behalf, but it has encouraged him to remain so resolute in his conviction that apparently now only a judge/jury can change it.
I don't know about the blog thing but I investigated and found that I can erect a large billboard on our property line, facing his property, that can say "WARNING--FECAL COLIFORM HEALTH HAZARD" for his and his guests visual enjoyment and discussion.
Last edited by CypressTx; 07/10/12 05:06 PM.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,722 Likes: 282
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: May 2009
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Just build a berm, and do have the outflow from you pond tested where it hits public waters.
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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Well honestly it comes down to how much hell do you wanna raise. if it was my pond trust me the world would stop spinning for awhile and the manure would be moved.. So it's up too you to do something because it sounds like the county ain't gonna do $hit... Maybe other dept will..
I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease.. BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES. ![[Linked Image from i90.photobucket.com]](http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k247/jmilczski/Fish/PBSubscribe.gif)
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 697
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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I would put up the big bill board and build the berm. This story makes my blood boil. I thought I had poor neighbors.
"I think I have a nibble" Homer Simpson 34ac natural lake  
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Joined: Jun 2002
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It looks like the health department would stop this contamination of your property. In some of these states, individual rights comes before safety. Another thought is to put out a garden where the most water seepage is, but don't eat the damn stuff. Then have the food checked for e-coli. If it is not safe then maybe some department in TX would take action.
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Hall of Fame
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[/quote] Spinner----that is brilliant; wished I'd thought of it myself. Only problem is we live too close to the big city. It would help if we lived in my wife's hometown, about 100 miles SW of here, where one day I read the lead story about some college students calling in a bogus order for 5 pies from the local Pizza Hut. [/quote]
Even in a big city you have TV reporters wanting a story. This guy works somewhere, and folks know him. Media coverage is the last thing he wants and guv'ment folks don't like to be perceived as not doing there job in public view. Do you guys have a city/county manager? Squeeky wheel gets the grease! Tell neighbors downstream, they probably have children, and dogs who go to this creek. The dog gets in the creek, and comes back home to be rubbed by owners, and prob. plays with children. Show them the water and show them the test. Maybe some e coli facts. Video it, and put it on Youtube with his name.
Something else-horses are easily scared by big booms, and noises. Nothing like trying to brush the horse down, and it getting spooked. Target shooting with a 30-06 is very loud.
Last edited by spinnerbait; 07/11/12 05:38 AM.
"I have not failed, I have only found 10,000 ways that won't work"
Thomas Edison
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 390
Hall of Fame
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Hall of Fame
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"I have not failed, I have only found 10,000 ways that won't work"
Thomas Edison
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Spinner,
We were ground zero for about 20" of rain over a few days a couple of weeks ago. The pond was inundated; I think we had a complete turnover of water. Meanwhile, our neighbor has greatly reduced (but not eliminated) his manure pile and as importantly configured it so that it does not create a dam through which all his run off must filter through. Last Tuesday I ordered a new e coli test; results should be in shortly. Since we still have no acknowledgement from him that there is a problem based on the results I will file suit either in district court or local JP court; JP court will obviously be cheaper but I can't file for recovery of my legal fees which are stacking up. District court will be serious kaching but I can file to recover those fees. BTW; visibility is back to 10-12" which is encouraging but still no signs of my bass or perch; first step to rebuilding is of course to stabilize the situation. The whole thing is ridiculous; we should have resolved it talking over the fence. Thanks for asking.
Last edited by CypressTx; 07/29/12 09:26 AM.
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Wow, I hope I never run into those kinds of problems, but then again I would have tried solving the problem this way: "Can I have that manure dumped into my gardens for fertilizer?" And set up some gardens where it doesn't get into your ponds. Apart from weed seeds, that stuff is golden.
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Recent e coli test results: 5 samples taken: 248, 225, 206,166,461 mpn/100 ml
geometric mean = 245
Results:
Almost twice above the state of Texas for primary contact recreation level for swimming, wading maximum of 126 mpn and no single sample above 399.
It is important to note that e coli is considered the indicator pathogen for a host of nasties such as giarda and cryptosporidium that do not respond to either chlorination or antibiotics.
Livestock manure is a biohazard; hundreds get sick every year from accidental leeching into fields of lettuce, strawberries, cantaloupe, etc. It should, IMHO, never be used as fertilizer unless it has first been properly composted. "Properly composted" is the operative phrase; this includes knowledge of how to properly handle, store, compost and distribute. Rule of thumb is the pile is driven twice to at least 130 F; even then you keep the pile away from creeks, streams, ponds, etc. because you can never kill all the nasties. One of the manure BMPs that I read had the statement "simply storing manure in piles IS NOT composting!" which says it all.
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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CypressTX,
I hope you prevail. Gotta love the USA where you have to pay a lawyer through the nose to even have a chance to prevail. $6000.00 for just a letter? How do they sleep at night? I'm almost as mad at a lawyer for charging so much as I am at your neighbor.
If you don't mind I'd like to share a story with you of a situation that happened in the next county that could have been resolved if someone had been doing their job.
A retired gentleman that moved in from another county was being harassed by his much younger neighbor. The younger neighbor did everything from stealing his firewood to verbally bullying him. The local cops thought it was funny and didn't do anything. One day the elderly gentleman had had enough and shot and killed the guy.
Upon his sentence to prison where his background was reported in the media, the local cops were flabbergasted to find the elderly gentleman was a decorated law enforcement officer in the second largest city in the state. If only someone had been doing their job...
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/04/12 04:24 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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@Cecil $6k buys a very comfy mattress 
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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@Cecil $6k buys a very comfy mattress Still a lot of money to a poor slob like me.  I can write a good letter but sure as heck wouldn't charge $6000.00 to do it. I got a couple people fired after I sent a letter to the oil company corp they worked for. No sympathy as they very poorly represented their workplace and were way out of line.  Lets just say they made fun of what I do for a living at the counter. I also fired a letter to a chemical company regional and national headquarters after their local supplier refused to sell me fertilizer and told me I was crazy for trying to fertilize a pond. They made him apologize.
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/04/12 04:36 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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$6K will buy you protection in prison.......for a while. LOL
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Lunker
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Howdy neighor. Just now noticed your post - and feel badly for your plight. Here's a suggestion for your dilemma.... Check out the hyperlink below; study the statues (due diligence) - then contact Joe Ballard (TCEQ~CAFO Div/Stephenville, TX), describe your scenario & request his input/assistance. His email address is: joe.ballard@tceq.texas.gov (I'm hesitant to post his ph#) SMALL CAFO (Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation) Any AFO may be designated a small CAFO by the executive director because it is a significant contributor of pollutants into or adjacent to water in the state. Any AFO that is designated a small CAFO must obtain written authorization from the TCEQ. If you do not qualify for the general permit, then you must obtain an individual permit.
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Thanks Kelly; just sent you a PM with details from the TCEQ report that I don't want to bore everyone with.
Michael
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
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Thanks all for the comments. Early on I spoke with him and offered to purchase the materials and help build a suitable structure to contain the manure and to prevent water ingress/outgress (according to manure BMPs) and all he said was "I don't see that there is a problem" and walked off. I have contacted the state and county and they came out but concluded that they don't have any jurisdiction on private lands/waters and all it did was tick him off more when he heard about the complaint. I've spoken to a law firm (specializing in environmental) who tells me that there are civil violations that are a basis for suit, but man---we are talking a lot of money. And if I don't do anything the lawyers tell me that I have basically granted them the right to continue unchallenged in the future. Bluegill, I did have the lawyers send him a letter in which the e coli issue was specifically mentioned and the response from his lawyers was "the state and county were out and didn't see any violations so tough". I'm at my wit's end; we called our pond the crown jewel of our property and had many good times there but now we can't stand to look at it. Dave, the thought of building a berm has passed through my mind but the lawyers tell me that blocking drainage and causing back up on their property would be the basis of a suit against us. They also tell me that if I run a bypass and send it downstream to our next neighbor's pond they could sue us for contaminating their pond. I feel as though I am trapped in a nightmare.
Michael If you were in Missouri, your neighbor is trespassing by piling the manure in an "unnatual" way....blocking water that backed up onto his property would be tresspass on your part....you could divert the runoff without backing it onto his side, but I imagine your crown jewel would dry up. Allowing the neighbor's continued tresspass without giving him permission to do so for whatever length of time is required in Tx, could conceivably be some form of adverse possession..(legal theft of property)...giving him written permission to let his pile of crap drain onto your property is the way to prevent adverse possession. As for bringing in lawyers...the horse crap I wrote above was the result of my 5 year, $75,000 legal "education" that now has me owning 60 acres I cannot legally set foot on...
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Hey John I just read your post about adding water hyacinth. I think it is illegal in Texas to add it to your pond? Eric what does adding lime to the water do? This is a really "crappy" neighbor what a jerk!
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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James lime is a cleansing agent assuming you don't have high alkalinity. In its hydrated form it is used in some septic systems. I think lime works just like in your pond - helps the natural chemical processes break down organic matter to useable nutrients. Hydrated lime used in septic clean up will kill many organisms by raising the pH to lethal limits.
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I think the lime would help resotre a balance in the pond. That's what it does in soil so I would assume it works a similar way.
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Joined: Feb 2013
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I will think about your problem. I raised a bunch of Paddlefish when I was in Florida. Part of the experiment was introducing horse manure into the small pond to inspire the Daphnia to bloom, and it did but the Paddlefish ate them way to quickly. I soon gave up on them as a fish food source in Florida. However there was a sharp increase in the amount of Algae and Algae is a good food for Paddlefish. Considering you could easily have several hundred fish stocked for next to nothing and the value of the fish is about $10,000 each after 6 to 8 years because of the warmer water in Texas, then your neighbor might want his cut.
Last edited by Loren Willis; 03/01/13 11:19 PM.
Loren E Willis II
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Another approach might be spray on some humic acids that will ionically charge the suspended particles and cause them to drop to the bottom, Plecostomus are wild in Texas and you could stock your pond with them to forage the bottom. Your picture shows an over flow pipe. You would need to screen the pipe for the Fish and Game people. They don't know anything about Plecos in Texas and think they are an invasive species.
Loren E Willis II
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