Pond Boss Forums AERATION Systems questions New aeration system, 2 week start-up, now fishkill

I took 10 days for startup of my aeration system, 2 acre, old pond avg 5' depth with deep channel near dam at 10' deep. 3 shallow diffusers, 1 deep diffuser. Started at 15 min for 2 days due to strong odor the first day. Then (each day), 30 min, 1 hr, 2 hrs for 2 days, 4 hrs for 2 days, etc. until first 24 hr shift ending yesterday (Friday) at 6am and running since. Went from air temps in upper 80's all week to heavy rains of 3" in 12 hours ending Friday morning. Went out this morning and found 4, 13" crappie on the shores along with many, many (could be 100's) small 1-2" crappie, bass and 1, 12" channel cat dead. Also a lot of them piping at the surface through the DW. My pond is 80% covered in Duckweek and there's also a lot of hydrilla in the pond.

I've seen no big LMB or other big fish other than the 4 crappie floating.

Could it be that I got to 24hrs too fast?

Could the DW be preventing the gasses from escaping into the air?

Could the weather have been a that much of a factor?

I do not have any DO, PH or other water-test info. I shut off my system and now not sure what to do.

Help?

The duckweedwill not prevent gasses from being released.

It is hard to say, but I would lean toward saying yes, the startup was a bit too aggressive.

At this point however, any damage that could be done, has been done.

Personally, unless the fish stopped piping after being shut off, I'd just leave the aeration running 24/7 for the fastest water quality correction.

Thanks Rainman! I shut the system down thinking the fishkill could get worse but if it's true the damage has already been done I'll turn it back on and let it go (unless, like you said, the fish stopped piping).

By the way, are you a part of Tilapiastockers? And if so, is it too late in the year to stock them for a FA problem? I understand they wouldn't survive the cold here.

Thank you again!

PM sent Lovnlivin

If the low DO has resolved itself, try a new start-up routine...starting at 30 minutes run time the first day.

Wow, not good this morning. Took the boat out yesterday to find a few large floating grass carp (which is ok with me), more large crappie (again which is ok). Netted the bass and crappie fry that were near the shore, then went out this morning and found hundreds more of the fry floating everywhere. How do I know where the DO level is? Is this is test I can do myself?

The encouraging part is for the first time I was able to use my trolling motor throughout the pond without getting all caught up in FA. I was really surprised. The only time the trolling motor did get caught up was in hydrilla which is very thick in one part of the pond. Now I'm wondering if my treatment of the FA about 6 weeks ago, where the mats turned brown but stayed afloat, now had enough oxygen from the aeration system to decompose, causing a sudden drop of oxygen?

I'm at a loss but will leave the system running as it appears to be clearin up some FA issues and I can't help but think it's doing the right thing at this point. If I have to restock to a once again healthy pond then so be it, I guess. With 3 shallow diffusers and one deep, I shut down the deep one and got a little more aggressive with the 3 shallows, thinking the deep one may have been stirring up too much muck. No clue but I'll get the boat out again today and see what's floating.

What's really odd, is that I know there are a lot of VERY healthy LMB in the pond but have seen none floating. Just carp, crappie and all the small fry.

For just moving in in March and being a first-time pond owner, it has been very interesting to say the least and have learned a ton. From Ted Lee @ cleanponds and this awesome forum, I'm very very appreciative of all the information!

PB Rocks

Keith

I am not very learned when it comes to fish kill origins except that 99% of them seem to be from water issues - low do, temp changes, etc. and not from other sources [pesticides, disease, etc.]. I do not aerate, but will someday, so I'm not in a position to hypothesize on reasons for the kill nor can I instruct you on how to ramp up your aeration system, but many here can do so.

Aeration/fish kill experts - any advice for our new member here?

Update: Very windy here today so all the DW has been pushed to the East end of the pond,,, along with the bigger dead fish that I was hoping not to see. Not a total fish-kill but one dead fish is one too many

I'm still running 3 of the 4 diffusers, with the deep one off and a little more aggressive on the 3 shallow ones.

Sad day to see so many dead fish. My only hope (and from what I've been told) is that it doesn't appear to be any one factor alone causing the fish-kill. Heavy vegetation (hydrilla, FA, DW), oxygen levels, decomposition, cold-front with 3" of rain just prior to finding the dead fish, etc..

I guess we'll see what the next few days bring. Our weather here is calling for upper 90's and windy nearly all week. I'm hoping that's a good thing!

LovnLivin...if ya get a chance post a couple of pictures
of your pond and fish. I hate to hear what you're going through.

Man I hope the problem clears itself up, I'm no expert but it doesn't sound like you rushed the startup. just before startup I lost a few I think it was because I was stirring up the nutrients raking crap out of the pond. Good luck with it.
Charlie

It's monday morning and the wind is very strong, pushing all the dead fish, DW and debris to the East end of the pond.

Now for the good news. Compared to before my areation start-up I had FA mats covering 40% of the pond. I had treated the mats with Cutrine Plus liquid about 6 weeks ago and the granular for the submerged FA about 4 weeks ago, yet the only results I saw were yellowed mats but still floating. Could it be there just wasn't enough oxygen to allow the dead FA to decompose and once I started aerating at 24 hrs there was, but still depleted the pond of enough oxygen to allow the fish-kill?

Not to be repetitive but I first noticed the small fish along the banks Saturday morning along with 1 big grass carp and 6 13" crappie (absolutely nothing Friday night, with a major storm with cold-front and 3" of rain in 12 hrs ending early Friday morning), then Sunday morning is when the bigger fish appeared.

Now being Monday morning, it appears to have stalled, meaning I'm not seeing more dead big or small fish, just about the same amount that I saw yesterday. Unless with all wind and the DW being pushed to the east end of the pond they're there but I can't see them. I'm trying to be optimistic.

I'm not sure how to add the actual pictures but here's the links to open them.

One last thing. My pond has more frogs (many are huge) than I've ever seen in my life! Is it normal for the tadpoles to be piping as much as they are? In the last picture you can see the small "boils" from where they are piping and it's all over the pond. There has to be thousands of tadpoles and half as many piping at the surface. Before the winds when the DW was covering the pond, you could see them everywhere piping through the DW. Strange to me but normal?

The tadpoles breath air...they normally come to the surface, take a gulp of air and head back down to the depths.

This sounds to be normal in my opinion, without seeing what you describe.

I would personally fire up the deepest diffuser to just bite the bullet at this point and allow the water quality issues to resolve faster.

I'm no biologist nor a tadpole expert, but I believe tadpoles early in development still have gills, and can breathe underwater like a fish. Tadpoles further along in development eventually grow lungs, like the frog/toad they are becoming, and need to surface to breathe. I have seen thousands of tadpoles surface on my ponds and have never had a DO crash. While I have no clue if this is a new development for your bow or not - I just wanted to try and help with my own observations/experience. I do not think tadpoles surfacing is a sign of low DO, they are merely breathing. You could still have low DO...just that "piping" tadpoles is not necessarily evidence of low DO conditions.

Have you performed any tests on your DO?

Thanks Rainman and TJ, and that all makes sense with the tadpoles as I've only begun to notice the piping after they've gotten bigger but not quite to the frog/toad stage (getting big but still have their tails).

Regarding a test on the DO, no I have not and don't know how to go about it. I probably need to test the PH, DO, etc..

Attached is another photo taken this morning of the "floaters"

So sad!

As an update, The deep diffuser is still off with the 3 shallows still running aggressively. I've found no more dead fish since Sunday and have removed as many as possible but with the temps near 100 it got too stenchy and they're decaying fast (great, even more fertilizer in a nutrient-rich pond).

The best part about the die-off is how many dead grass-carp I found, some nearing 10 lbs or better.

Working with Ted at Cleanponds.com, we've come to the conclusion there's not one factor alone that caused this but a combinaton of many things making up as Ted said "the perfect storm".

I'm very encouraged that I'm on the right track even though one dead fish is one too many, but things are looking good from here.

The FA is under much better control as I can now run my trolling motor throughout the pond without clogging up although the hydrilla is getting very thick in spots. Another issue for later. Right now just focused on healthy waters.

Baby steps but I think we're making progress.

PB rocks!

Man oh man, I'm sorry to hear about this!
I did not have any issues with piping fish with my start up but I did churn up some old dead fish that were in pretty bad shape which scared me but nothing like what you have going on. From what I've read on your posts there were a lot of changes that happened in a relatively short period of time in your pond. First you treated the FA, then put in aeration, then got hot temps followed with a lot of cold rain and all of this pretty much back to back.

In my thinking, I don't think you really rushed the start up. In theory, you were probably turning the pond over long before Friday at least once a day especially when you hit the 10-12hr range on things. What I see is these temps followed by heavy rains were just at that time when you hit the 24hr run. If it were a result of the aeration I think the problem would have shown up sooner. The heavy rains possibly could have caused some or all of this whether or not aeration was in place or not.

Yes, it sucks but at the same token, you did manage to thin the population which was probably somewhere on that long list of things to do with the pond. So, if there is lemonade to be made out of lemons perhaps this may be a blessing in disguise. I know it's hard to see it that way but as long as some of your better fish survived it and some of the food supply survived it, you may end up with a healthier fishery in the end.

Hang in there and keep us posted on how this turns out.

This is just me but not knowing how old this pond is and he said it stunk real bad when he started up his air I would have slooooowed the air process way down. My pond is 65 years old. My neighbor just the other day who I finally met told me his grand father used to own my land back in the day. He told me that, the land I am on now had not been touched in 40 years!! I was like wow that's hard to believe. When I started my air up in my pond. I did 20 minutes, then next day 40, then 1 hour after that I left it on 2 hours a day for 7 days and then 4 hours for 2 weeks. Then to 6 for a week and finally 8 hours a day and kept it there. I had no problems that I know of. Ted I am sure is correct it was more than one issue more than likely, but from what I have seen in these older ponds when it comes to air in them patience is a virtue for sure!! Good luck buddy hope the worst is over now!

Thanks for your inputs. It's Friday morning and still no more floaters since originally found on Sunday morning. I'll leave the deep diffuser off one more week and slowly bring it online.

I'm very encouraged and very optimistic at this point, knowing nothing happens overnight with pond management (how's that for an understatement).

It's 6:30 AM and I'm going out with the boat to get a good look at the whole pond, and of course bring a rod and reel and see if I can snag a fish or two. That would truly make my day!

Have a great weekend y'all and I'll keep updating periodically.

PB Rocks!

Next time you go out, take an indoor/outdoor thermometer and drop the probe down deep. See where (if any) the thermocline is.

We'll do esshup, thanks.

I have long felt that the standard cookie cutter approach on starting aerators for more and more time each day is not specific enough for the various conditions that ponds are in. I use my nose to determine how long to run an aerator. Even after four years I still have one diffuser that always smells in the spring. It happens that it is the one that is in the deepest part of the 3 acre pond. I start all five of them, let them run for 15 or 20 minutes. Then I go over each bubble pattern and smell. If they don't smell I leave them on. If one smells I limit it's run time to about 15 minutes. The next day, if it still stinks I still limit it to 15 minutes. I do that until the smell is greatly reduced. Sometimes this takes a week, sometime, like this year, I limited one of the aerators to 15 minutes for over two weeks.

No problems ever with fish piping or dying.

Good point Bing, and working with Ted Lea he approached this the same way. He knew it was an old pond and to not start it up too aggressively. I was probably the one that didn't pay enough attention to the one deep diffuser. There was no smell after the 2nd or 3rd day of running 30 minutes (first 2 days 15 minutes). But once I got up to 24 hrs the deep one was probably a contributor. It's still off and we're giving it another week, then very slowly start bringing it online.

Regarding the fish kill of maybe 100 in my 2 acre pond, there were many large dead carp found as well as some 13" crappie, and as I don't want them in the pond anyway, it may have been a blessing. And, that there have been no more floaters since the first big ones were discovered last Sunday

Thank you all again for your thoughts and input!

PB Rocks!