Pond Boss Forums FISH & FISHING Fly Fishing & Other Fish Species Help with sunfish ID

This might not the best place to post this, but the more appropriate forums are kinda busy right now.

I need some help figuring out what kind of sunfish I’ve got. 3 months ago 1 ordered 200 northern BG and 100 RE (1 to 2”) to stock my new ½ ac pond. They’ve grown amazingly fast since then and in the past month the kids and I have caught quite a few (50 to 75?).

What we have been catching fall into 3 different catagories, as shown below. Unfortunately, the vast majority do not appear to be straight BG.

Here's the BG, of which we've caught maybe 4.

This one's a bit different

and then there's this variety


Whatever they are, they are all growing well and have been spawning, too. What do you all think?

The top picture is of a BG likely pure strain and will probably be a male that fully matures next year. The bottom two fish are hybrid BG but I'm not sure if they are from a 1st generation cross or some later generation esp the 3rd fish. Both bottom fish are hybrids and it is possible both hybrids have different species in the parerntal cross or they could just be color variants but I doubt the color variant possibility for these two fish. None of the 3 fish are redear sunfish. It is possible the fish farm sold you hybrid sunfish instead of RES if all you are catching have very similar color patters of the bottom 2 fish. RES will not have the yellow-white blend of the lower body fins.

The bottom fish are what my hybrids from a fish truck look like? Will be curious to see what experts think of these and what generation they think this is.

I hate that you were sold HBG if you want BG, but hopefully you at least got some RES in your order.

At any rate it seems like you got a mixed bag.

I agree with Bill.

Ditto.

Same here. Bill is spot on, as always.

Is it me, or is there a trend towards fish trucks selling HBG as RES?

I hate to think that you got all HBG instead of RES. Does that really happen? I would recognize the difference but many especially new pond owerns I'm sure do not know the difference between RES and HBG at 1"-3" long.

I attended a pond management seminar put on by my local extension office this week, and was amazed at how little most folks know regarding their ponds, and fish. Just goes to show you how easy it is to take for granted the knowledge gained from interacting with this forum, and subscribing to the magazine.

I believe that most people are looking for answers, but do not know where to turn. I seemed to be the only one answering the questions asked of the audience, to the point where the lake management pro who was talking laughingly suggested that I should come up and continue his program while he took a break. After the program ended, I was swamped with people asking me questions on every facet of dealing with a pond imagineable. I had brought a dozen PB brochures with me, and could've handed out another dozen easily.

I was simply shocked at how many of the people in that room were struggling with their ponds, as well as the fish in them, desperately looking for answers without really knowing where to turn.

When we got to the fish part of the program, he was showing slides of various species, while explaining the pros' and cons' of each. He would ask each time a new fish came up, "Who knows what this is?" Only three people out of 32 raised their hands when the RES was displayed. Then, when he began to describe what the benefits were to having RES in your pond, I could see people jotting down notes as fast as they could. They loved the thought of a fish that would reduce parasites, grow bigger than BG, not likely over-populate your pond, and fight hard....

It almost seemed like he was describing a brand new fish to a lot of those folks. A common RES, but most of them simply didn't know. The guys on the fish truck could've sold anything, and called it a RES and the vast majority of that crowd wouldn't have known any different.

I would kick some a$$ if I was you Vamaz.. Ok maybe not literally is there any creeks or runoff into your pond maybe the fish snuck in.. Basically you got ripped off by your fishman..

The only time I ever attended one of those "parking lot fish sales" I looked at the guy's RES and many of them looked suspect.

Yeah, this is what I was afraid of. I thought I was way ahead of the curve for having been studying on this site for the last couple years. I turned my nose up to the fish trucks and placed an order with a hatchery (seemed reputable) and made the 2 1/2 hr drive (ea way).

When I got there, everything was bagged & boxed. I opened up a couple bags and it looked like I was getting what I wanted. The LMB, CC, and Gambusia all looked good, and the REs looked like REs even at 1-2". But admittantly, though the BG I checked looked like BG to me, I must have been wrong.

The bill said "Bluegill", the boxes were labelled "Bluegill", and so at the 10 yd line (and a bunch of impatient family members urging me on ) I got 'em acclimated and let 'em go!

So... The obvious question... What now?

My goals are simply to have a balanced fishery with decent all-around fishing. We've been catching lots of the HBG off beds, but are they really spawning? Or is it just a bunch of lonely guys competing for the scant few girls resulting in low numbers of offspring?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking I need to get some adult BG in there pronto 'cause the LMB are gonna run through the FHMs before long. Incredibly, the 3" LMB that we stocked in March are mostly 6-7" now and the pond record is 8"!!

And what can I expect for the future? Will the HBG population eventually fade off into the sunset, or am I gonna be dealing with greenies to the end of time?

Really appreciate all the responses!

I wouldn't panic just yet. There's not a whole lot you can do to stop the reproduction of the HBG, but limiting recruitment should be a priority. If the HBG are of the traditional heavy male bias, that will greatly diminish their ability to fill your pond. So will the LMB and CC you already have in place. I would stay on top of my vegetation, and keep it to a minimum.... providing cover for yoy HBG is not what you need right now.

I think I would keep fishing the beds and removing all of the hybrids that you can. I'm guessing that allowing the LMB to hammer the HBG offspring, combined with stocking some native BG, will result in an eventual, near extinction event for your HBG.

In the ponds that I've seen, if the HBG aren't restocked on a periodic basis, and there is a good population of BG, the HBG slowly fade away in a couple of years. Some might be left, but the population swing will tip in the BG balance quickly.

The HBG won't be a problem, but the fact he paid for RES and got HBG Is a problem.. I'd contact the supplier and demand some answers.. Now your gonna have to pay for RES again and their getting behind on when they should of been stocked so you could lose some to predation.. Is there any other water/creeks that drain into your pond even in flood type condition?

Vamaz, RES can be difficult to catch sometimes. Have you tried fishing on, or right near the bottom for them? If you received HBG instead of BG, then perhaps the RES are present after all?

In my mind the question is: Did you receive HBG instead of RES, or instead of native BG?

Sad, but in my opinion there is a trend.

I would highly reccomend buying RES that are at least 4" in size, it's much easier to tell what they actually are at that size.

I don't think it was HBG in place of RES. I started showing my kids how to fish dry flies and they're eatin it up! So aside from some occasional worm & bobber outings, most have been caught off the surface.

Bluegillkiller, I hear you, and I totally appreciate your candor. Trust me now that I've confirmed what I've been suspecting, I will be having a conversation with them. I doubt there's anything they can do now to help, but I'm not gonna just let em skate.

Still wondering about all those HBG on beds... Assuming 90% males, is it all for show, or are they actually spawning?

Oh, and I guess this would be a good time for you all to share some of your favorite panfish recipes!!!

They are spawning. Just 90% + males... So few females mean few babies.

Don't worry about the HBG. Ask them to provide you with RES for free and send them a pic.

Cody agrees and it will be good to show them you NOW know thedifference between HBG and RES thus the Fish Farm maybe a little more careful of what they provide if they replace some fish.

I've been thinking I got HBG instead of BG, but it seems you all are suspecting they were in my RES order. Why is that? Do HBG look like RES when they're young?

Now my wife tells me I've been wrong before... , but the reason I think they were in the BG order is because almost all our fishing has been top-water and I can still count the number of BG we've caught on one hand. This evening I caught a dozen or so HBG, and zero BG. Maybe I should go deeper and see if I can come up with any RES.

If I'm wrong, please convince me otherwise, but since I missed the Southeast Pondstocking fishtruck this weekend, the kids and I are devising a plan to begin transplanting some BG from a nearby private lake. The lake was drained 3 years ago for repairs and then restocked. The BG we've caught there look really good. That way, at least we might still have a chance at getting some spawning action this summer.

Bluegillkiller - no the pond's fed by run-off and a wet-weather creek. Spotted our first snappign turtle this evening. How did he find out about it??

Sprkplug - I think you're right, I'll work on getting some more BG in there, but otherwise I'm gonna roll with what I got!

See this link for help iding them. I would want to know for sure if there are RES in the pond. See pic below - a RES

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92482#Post92482

How about these, are they the REs? I caught these a bit deeper, about 5' below the surface. Or are they yet another hybrid?

Those are HBG. Pretty ones, too.

They could be females with eggs. A little small but still could be with eggs. Note how the bellies are more distended and roundish than the first ones you posted. They appear more than just well fed fish.

I hesitate to use the word "definitely", but I also feel very strongly that these are female fish.